Do you really need 20 Million DE's?

[McKDaddy]

In retrospect? It most certainly was. And it cost them the $17 million on the cap last year, and over $20 million a year going forward, when prior to the Mack and Donald deals, the going rate was $18 million.
"In retrospect" has the great advantage of looking backwards. I'm just saying, i can't bash them for the decision they made last year. You have to make choices even when you know there could be an unfavorable consequence. I get what you are saying. If we had worked out a deal last year, it would probably be viewed as a bargain this year. But if he is under contract, does he work all season with the shoulder?


I don't know if you saw it, but it's come out that the Cowboys first tried to lowball Lawrence and offered just $17 million a year. That's insulting to the player and that's on them. Their fault. That's why we're here at this point.

I don't disagree at all on this. Unless it was done as a motivator for him to have the surgery & to let him know that you really don't appreciate him not showing good faith in his efforts to be a healthy player.

Lots of sides to the issue. Some of which we really don't know. Oh well, it will work itself out one way or another.

 

[Denim Chicken]

IMO, the best-case is if a trade could be worked out for a 1st round pick to a non-division opponent.

If he's not going to live up to that contract, why wouldn't you want him traded in the division? That way your divisional opponent is hamstrung with an overpaid DE and looses a 1st rounder.

 

[Stash]

I don't disagree at all on this. Unless it was done as a motivator for him to have the surgery & to let him know that you really don't appreciate him not showing good faith in his efforts to be a healthy player.

Lots of sides to the issue. Some of which we really don't know. Oh well, it will work itself out one way or another.

Maybe that's why he hasn't had the surgery done either. If the team was clearly trying to lowball me, while I knew I could get paid more elsewhere? Yeah, I'd use whatever leverage I had too.

 

[JeffInDC]

Look, I'm a big Tank guy. Y'all also know I'm a HUGE "hate the FO" guy. So keep that in mind when I bring this to your attention.

I looked at the top 10 defenses in the NFL last season. Out of those 10 teams, only two of them paid their RDE and LDE a combined salary of more than 18 Million dollars. That's for both sides people. Minnesota, and Houston. Pittsburgh would make 3 but I wanted to stay top ten ranked defensive teams.

So tell me what I'm missing here? As much as I know we need quality first tier guys at several positions, do we want 23 million wrapped up in one where the highest paid player at that position doesn't get his team into the top ten in defense??? Are we good enough every where else to justify this?

Again, I like Tank, I knew from the beginning he was the War Daddy Jerry dreamed of. But paying him over 20 million a year doesn't ensure nothing. All it really does is create a scapegoat when things go south!!!

As much as I like Tank, I still believe in building the DLine INSIDE OUT versus outside in. I would SERIOUSLY be reaching out to Indy to see if they would take him for #26. Yes, they did just sign Houston for 2 years, but, with over $60M in Cap Space and them obviously being very close to competing for an AFC title at least, this could be a win-win for both...................then, I would take that pick and rebuild this DLine with 2 STUD DT's that would make life even easier for whomever they have on the edges. Seriously..............just imagine Dallas pulling off this trade and landing Dexter Lawrence at #26...............then, somehow managing to land Jeffrey Simmons early in Round 2 because of his injury (obviously would require trading up in early Round 2 - and, because they have made a few investments on the interior, he wouldn't need to be rushed back)). But, could you imagine just how good those 2 would be for YEARS to come? Can't see ANY TEAM running for 273 on that combo.

 

[TwoDeep3]

You people act like this is your money. What the team spends is less important than if the team's brain trust can actually build a winning organization that can get to the NFC Championship game.

So far if they had all the money in China, they still couldn't field a winner that gets past the second round of the play-offs.

 

[Future]

Who plays longer?

Who cares? That has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

 

[CouchCoach]

Look, I'm a big Tank guy. Y'all also know I'm a HUGE "hate the FO" guy. So keep that in mind when I bring this to your attention.

I looked at the top 10 defenses in the NFL last season. Out of those 10 teams, only two of them paid their RDE and LDE a combined salary of more than 18 Million dollars. That's for both sides people. Minnesota, and Houston. Pittsburgh would make 3 but I wanted to stay top ten ranked defensive teams.

So tell me what I'm missing here? As much as I know we need quality first tier guys at several positions, do we want 23 million wrapped up in one where the highest paid player at that position doesn't get his team into the top ten in defense??? Are we good enough every where else to justify this?

Again, I like Tank, I knew from the beginning he was the War Daddy Jerry dreamed of. But paying him over 20 million a year doesn't ensure nothing. All it really does is create a scapegoat when things go south!!!

Sorry, the rules say only one Like per post but I could not agree more.

And all of these posters playing that "pay the man" card just because they want the player should be considered cap challenged.

What he wants amounts to 12% of the cap for a DE. We had one of the best in the game and he could be taken out and Ware got the same complaint I see about Lawrence. Where is he when we need him? Gassed, because they couldn't seem to balance out the DL. Paying one DE 20-22.5M is a guarantee that we will be bidding adieu to some of our favorite players.

What did the only guy that seems to comprehend and apply the cap do with his DE? He let him walk because he couldn't agree more with your thread title. When you're not the smartest guy in the room, you watch what the smartest guys does and you emulate him. He wasn't even going to use his tag on Flowers, a good DE and one that shows up late in the season unlike Lawrence.

 

[Flamma]

No. We only need around 4 DEs. No need to stockpile them.

 

[Flamma]

I'm out on Tank because he wants too much. If he gets injured we're screwed. And I highly doubt he plays at Mack level. That said, losing him is anywhere between a step backwards to disaster.

Best case scenario. We get Quinn, Gregory is back and Taco takes a step forward. That's a pretty good defensive line and we don't have to pay Mack Lite Mack money. A step backward but still a good DL and defense overall.

Worse case. No Gregory and we still have a soft Taco. With or without Quinn, that's a big step backwards to disastrous. Keep in mind my best case scenario includes wishful thinking, so make of it what you will.

Any other scenario includes trading Tank for pick(s). I forgot what thread it was but it had us in position for a good DT and DE with a little luck. That's probably the best trade Tank scenario.

 

[OmerV]

If the Cowboys are not willing to pay this much for a DE, then they should have never used the franchise tag on Tank.

Did you see the Pats use the franchise tag on FLowers? No, they thanked him for his services and he signed for $18.5 yr with Detriot.

The Cowboys should do the same with Tank. Either commit to paying him $20+ million or recend the tag and let him be a free agent.

And I am not disagreeing with you my friend, I actually think you make a good argument to not pay that much to one single player on your DL, just like the pats decided not to do.

This is exactly the kind of thing the franchise tag is for, to allow the teams to keep a player for a year without making a long term commitment to that player. That's what everyone uses the franchise tag for.

 

[kskboys]

Look, I'm a big Tank guy. Y'all also know I'm a HUGE "hate the FO" guy. So keep that in mind when I bring this to your attention.

I looked at the top 10 defenses in the NFL last season. Out of those 10 teams, only two of them paid their RDE and LDE a combined salary of more than 18 Million dollars. That's for both sides people. Minnesota, and Houston. Pittsburgh would make 3 but I wanted to stay top ten ranked defensive teams.

So tell me what I'm missing here? As much as I know we need quality first tier guys at several positions, do we want 23 million wrapped up in one where the highest paid player at that position doesn't get his team into the top ten in defense??? Are we good enough every where else to justify this?

Again, I like Tank, I knew from the beginning he was the War Daddy Jerry dreamed of. But paying him over 20 million a year doesn't ensure nothing. All it really does is create a scapegoat when things go south!!!

No. We need 3-4 solid ones, and hope to find a really disruptive one in the draft.

 

[Diehardblues]

Sorry, the rules say only one Like per post but I could not agree more.

And all of these posters playing that "pay the man" card just because they want the player should be considered cap challenged.

What he wants amounts to 12% of the cap for a DE. We had one of the best in the game and he could be taken out and Ware got the same complaint I see about Lawrence. Where is he when we need him? Gassed, because they couldn't seem to balance out the DL. Paying one DE 20-22.5M is a guarantee that we will be bidding adieu to some of our favorite players.

What did the only guy that seems to comprehend and apply the cap do with his DE? He let him walk because he couldn't agree more with your thread title. When you're not the smartest guy in the room, you watch what the smartest guys does and you emulate him. He wasn't even going to use his tag on Flowers, a good DE and one that shows up late in the season unlike Lawrence.

I’d agree in principle but our situation because of our other circumstances dictates a potential casualty in losing 3 pieces on our DL unlike with Ware when we only lost one.

I’m fine with standing firm as long as we don’t panic or over react when the results aren’t favorable.

 

[Diehardblues]

No. We need 3-4 solid ones, and hope to find a really disruptive one in the draft.

What do you think the effects are going to be losing all 3?

 

[Diehardblues]

This is exactly the kind of thing the franchise tag is for, to allow the teams to keep a player for a year without making a long term commitment to that player. That's what everyone uses the franchise tag for.

Right but in this situation because of our other circumstances losing Gregory and Irving is going to cost us either in money or severe loss of talent.

 

[JustChip]

If he's not going to live up to that contract, why wouldn't you want him traded in the division? That way your divisional opponent is hamstrung with an overpaid DE and looses a 1st rounder.

That's a good point. But the problem is no one can predict the future with certainty. I don't think it's the mostly scenario, but maybe he does live up to the contract in which case I prefer not to have to face him twice a year. The Raiders traded Mack to the other conference.

 

[CouchCoach]

Right but in this situation because of our other circumstances losing Gregory and Irving is going to cost us either in money or severe loss of talent.

I do not think they believe Gregory is gone and if that's the case, that will allow them a little more latitude.

But, you deal with what you deal with. Can't grossly overpay this one guy because your overly dependent on him. The bigger problem I see is Charleton not working out as I think that was part of the plan. Get Gregory, take the risk, and then Charleton and they don't have to overpay the other DE. I do not think they would have even tagged Lawrence last season if Charleton had been close to what they hoped for. Lawrence is the domino effect of a bad pick.

At least with Lawrence and LVE, they did take the best player on the D, they didn't with Charleton. Made the same mistake they did with Spears. Don't take a player that is not the best player off a D better than your own.

 

[Diehardblues]

We made the sound money decision in 2015 with Murray and tagging Dez which I’d argue cost us the 2015 season.

Then we had to use our 1st round pick in 2016 to fill that hole which by that time another injury cost Romo his career.

Making sound financial Cap decisions do have a price or consequences short term. And I think this is one of those potential situations which is fine if we’re willing to concede the effects it could have on the season.

Unfortunately if we hadn’t lost Gregory and Irving this would be an easier decision and Lawrence wouldn’t have as much leverage. But we chose not to shore up our secondary with Earl and now are prepared for our DL to be decimated.

Ok but don’t come screaming for everyone’s head if this defense flops and can’t carry the offense and we stumble this season.

 

[Diehardblues]

I do not think they believe Gregory is gone and if that's the case, that will allow them a little more latitude.

But, you deal with what you deal with. Can't grossly overpay this one guy because your overly dependent on him. The bigger problem I see is Charleton not working out as I think that was part of the plan. Get Gregory, take the risk, and then Charleton and they don't have to overpay the other DE. I do not think they would have even tagged Lawrence last season if Charleton had been close to what they hoped for. Lawrence is the domino effect of a bad pick.

At least with Lawrence and LVE, they did take the best player on the D, they didn't with Charleton. Made the same mistake they did with Spears. Don't take a player that is not the best player off a D better than your own.

Again, that’s fine if your willing to accept the consequences and potential effects it has on this season.

 

[Cowboys22]

Seems like just yesterday we were balking at paying anyone other that a qb $9-10 million a year.

 

[Diehardblues]

Considering our dire circumstances on DL and concerns for committing too much long term then Tagging Lawrence one more season is the obvious solution but if we wait until the deadline then he isn’t going to have his surgery in time to prevent from missing several games.