For all the criticism Dak Prescott gets

[Mr_437]

Haven't people realized by now that his worst year (his 2nd), he had one of the worst receiving units in the NFL? An aging Jason Witten, a washed out Dez Bryant, decent Terrence Williams, Cole Beasley, Brice Butler, and Noah Brown. One of the most weaksauce receiving units I can think of. That list of names has no flash at all.

It shouldn't be any surprise why his sophomore campaign was a failure. The majority of the criticism he gets is for his 2nd year (or that 16 game streak from Atlanta 2017 game 9 through Tennessee 2018 game 8). After the Cooper trade, he starts putting up highlights and has his team back in good looking shape. I'm just really shocked Cowboys fans don't seem to recognize what clearly dragged us down in '17.....

Bro, looks like you missed the endless, head banging against the wall, dead horse beating thread after thread Dak talk. We were taking a good little break then here you come stirring up trouble again...haha.

For real, nobodies gonna be convinced one way or the other...Dak has all the weapons now, we'll see what happens.

 

[CouchCoach]

I guess we're never going to run out of these excuse making threads? We had them for Romo and now for Prescott. And they do share one trait.

There are two different kinds of QBs in the NFL, those that can create plays and lift the supporting cast and those that execute the plays and need the supporting cast to lift them. Romo and Prescott are the latter.

There's nothing wrong with that as long as the brain trust realizes that as the Ravens did with Flacco and the Giants with Manning. When they didn't do that well, they were lucky to make the playoffs.

Brady, Brees, Rodgers are in that first group and mainly because of their consistent accuracy. Mahomes and Wilson and even Rivers and Ryan might be in that group but even they need some help, just not as much as the other type of QB, the executor.

The challenge is finding the QB that fits that first grouping for they are rare. I do not see any in this draft and maybe only Mayfield in the previous one but only time will tell.

The fact, at least to me, is that the Cowboys can win, and win it all, with this QB providing they surround him with the right talent. He couldn't lift Beasley or Hurns but Cooper could lift him and while a lot do not like it, Prescott is better with Witten than without him.

While I do not agree that a QB can improve on his accuracy, I do believe he can improve on his pocket awareness and timing on the release of the ball. And as someone else said, what's the alternative? Those thinking this team should try for Tua in the 20 draft or Lawrence in the 21 draft are whistling out their belly buttons.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Based on what? Your on and off eye test? If Wentz was terrible, what the heck was Prescott?

Ask one of your Eagirl fans how Wentz played last year. Ask them why they stuck with Foles even though Wentz was healthy enough to play. Ask them about the reports about how players on the team don’t view him as a leader. Tell me what they tell you.......

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I guess we're never going to run out of these excuse making threads? We had them for Romo and now for Prescott. And they do share one trait.

There are two different kinds of QBs in the NFL, those that can create plays and lift the supporting cast and those that execute the plays and need the supporting cast to lift them. Romo and Prescott are the latter.

There's nothing wrong with that as long as the brain trust realizes that as the Ravens did with Flacco and the Giants with Manning. When they didn't do that well, they were lucky to make the playoffs.

Brady, Brees, Rodgers are in that first group and mainly because of their consistent accuracy. Mahomes and Wilson and even Rivers and Ryan might be in that group but even they need some help, just not as much as the other type of QB, the executor.

The challenge is finding the QB that fits that first grouping for they are rare. I do not see any in this draft and maybe only Mayfield in the previous one but only time will tell.

The fact, at least to me, is that the Cowboys can win, and win it all, with this QB providing they surround him with the right talent. He couldn't lift Beasley or Hurns but Cooper could lift him and while a lot do not like it, Prescott is better with Witten than without him.

While I do not agree that a QB can improve on his accuracy, I do believe he can improve on his pocket awareness and timing on the release of the ball. And as someone else said, what's the alternative? Those thinking this team should try for Tua in the 20 draft or Lawrence in the 21 draft are whistling out their belly buttons.

Yeah but even Brees and Rodgers need help. Their receiving groups are stacked. Brady is the one argument guys can make for not having elite options around him but he does have a elite head coach.

 

[CouchCoach]

Yeah but even Brees and Rodgers need help. Their receiving groups are stacked. Brady is the one argument guys can make for not having elite options around him but he does have a elite head coach.

They all need a certain degree of help, P. Manning needed a D and so has Brady.

I think these GM's get too relaxed, as Booger did with Romo and his Houdini act. Look at these highly regarded QBs like Favre, how many rings? The same number as Brees and Rodgers. Yet Flacco and E. Manning get 2 because their GM's focused on what was not only around them but what was on the field when they were not.

Show me a multiple ring bearer QB including Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman and Brady that wasn't surrounded by exceptional talent, especially on that D side. Even QB's like Tarkenton and Kelly got what they needed, just couldn't get it done. And the same can be said for Staubach, he was 2 of 5.

 

[Yobwocs]

I guess we're never going to run out of these excuse making threads? We had them for Romo and now for Prescott. And they do share one trait.

There are two different kinds of QBs in the NFL, those that can create plays and lift the supporting cast and those that execute the plays and need the supporting cast to lift them. Romo and Prescott are the latter.

There's nothing wrong with that as long as the brain trust realizes that as the Ravens did with Flacco and the Giants with Manning. When they didn't do that well, they were lucky to make the playoffs.

Brady, Brees, Rodgers are in that first group and mainly because of their consistent accuracy. Mahomes and Wilson and even Rivers and Ryan might be in that group but even they need some help, just not as much as the other type of QB, the executor.

The challenge is finding the QB that fits that first grouping for they are rare. I do not see any in this draft and maybe only Mayfield in the previous one but only time will tell.

The fact, at least to me, is that the Cowboys can win, and win it all, with this QB providing they surround him with the right talent. He couldn't lift Beasley or Hurns but Cooper could lift him and while a lot do not like it, Prescott is better with Witten than without him.

While I do not agree that a QB can improve on his accuracy, I do believe he can improve on his pocket awareness and timing on the release of the ball. And as someone else said, what's the alternative? Those thinking this team should try for Tua in the 20 draft or Lawrence in the 21 draft are whistling out their belly buttons.

If you admit to realizing that we CAN win a Super Bowl with Dak - the rest of that long debate about who's the best QB of all time is just needless chatter. I don't really care for discussions about "BEST QBS. DAK AINT ONE. HE NEVER WILL BE." Best QBs of all time are obvious imo: Favre, Brady, Manning, Unitas, Staubach, Marino, Montana, Elway, etc. But that discussion should be independently related to the discussion about the ability of our team to earn success in the coming years.

 

[Vtwin]

Good points OP.

I don’t want to blame Dak’s poor stretch of play solely on the supporting cast. I do think Dak also went through a slump, irregardless of the supporting cast.

With that being said, it’s incredibly common for young QB’s to go through slumps. It’s why there is even a term for it “sophomore slump”. It’s a real thing. It’s why former pros and coaches even talk about them.

It just so happened with Dak that his sophomore slump didn’t start until halfway through his second season and it lasted into his 3rd season.

But Dak was slowly working his way out of it before Cooper arrived.

And while yes getting Cooper helped Dak a lot by providing him a real #1 receiver. Dak has also grown and improved in his game. Those saying he hasn’t boggles my mind because I think it’s pretty clear that he has grown as a QB. He still has things he needs to improve, namely his footwork. But he has improved a lot in many facets of his game.

I honestly don’t understand why some fans on this site expect young QB’s to not have flaws, play perfect, not go through tough stretches, etc. I also don’t understand why some fans don’t think QB’s keep improving beyond year 3. Because lots of QB’s in the nfl do.

What you are misunderstanding is that while yes, QB's can and do improve after three years and beyond, those improvements come in the form of better understanding of defenses and the ability to read and exploit them. Maybe even subtle refinement of throwing motion for some.

If a QB is still struggling with basic footwork after a career of youth football, high school, college and three years of NFL it seems a reach to think the light bulb is finally going to go off.

Pocket presence and reaction while under duress is even less likely to see improvement. Those are ingrained psychological reactions which would be extremely difficult to train out of an individual.

While it can be honestly said that Dak has shown some improvement it can also be honestly said that he is still well behind the curve relative to top tier QB's entering their fourth season as the starter.

The old rule of thumb is you should know what you have after three seasons. Talking about the need for significant improvements in fundamental footwork at this point should be a huge red flag.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

1 Tampa Bay 625 408 65.3 5125 8.6 75 36 26 41 233 94.1 320
2 Pittsburgh 689 459 66.6 5008 7.5 97 35 17 24 166 95.5 313
3 Kansas City 583 385 66.0 4955 8.8 89 50 12 26 171 113.8 310
4 Atlanta 617 428 69.4 4653 8.0 75 36 7 42 296 108.0 291
5 LA Rams 568 368 64.8 4507 8.3 70 32 12 33 223 100.7 282
6 Indianapolis 644 432 67.1 4461 7.1 68 39 15 18 134 98.2 279
7 Philadelphia 599 422 70.5 4275 7.6 83 29 11 40 249 100.8 267
8 New England 574 378 65.9 4258 7.7 63 29 11 21 147 97.8 266
9 Green Bay 640 392 61.3 4238 7.2 75 25 4 53 391 93.7 265
10 LA Chargers 512 348 68.0 4089 8.4 75 32 12 34 227 104.9 256
11 NY Giants 583 382 65.5 4047 7.6 58 23 12 47 358 92.7 253
12 New Orleans 519 381 73.4 4042 8.0 72 33 7 20 132 112.3 253
13 Minnesota 606 425 70.1 4036 7.1 75 30 10 40 262 99.7 252
14 Cleveland 574 353 61.5 4007 7.4 71 29 17 38 254 88.8 250
15 San Francisco 532 331 62.2 3867 8.0 85 26 20 48 380 87.8 242
16 Carolina 563 378 67.1 3836 7.2 82 28 16 32 235 92.9 240
17 Houston 506 345 68.2 3781 8.2 73 26 9 62 384 102.9 236
18 Oakland 556 382 68.7 3751 7.3 66 19 10 52 306 93.6 234
19 Denver 588 367 62.4 3695 6.7 64 19 15 34 235 82.1 231
20 Detroit 574 375 65.3 3576 6.7 67 22 12 41 268 88.5 224
21 Chicago 512 344 67.2 3564 7.3 70 28 14 33 183 95.4 223
22 Baltimore 556 334 60.1 3558 6.7 74 18 9 32 150 84.0 222
23 Dallas 527 356 67.6 3538 7.4 90 22 8 56 347 96.7 221
24 Cincinnati 542 331 61.1 3290 6.6 49 27 13 37 279 87.0 206

We we're 23 in passing last season now why would that be Dak's fault jeez some of you guys don't see the greatness of Dak????

 

[InTheZone]

Haven't people realized by now that his worst year (his 2nd), he had one of the worst receiving units in the NFL? An aging Jason Witten, a washed out Dez Bryant, decent Terrence Williams, Cole Beasley, Brice Butler, and Noah Brown. One of the most weaksauce receiving units I can think of. That list of names has no flash at all.

It shouldn't be any surprise why his sophomore campaign was a failure. The majority of the criticism he gets is for his 2nd year (or that 16 game streak from Atlanta 2017 game 9 through Tennessee 2018 game 8). After the Cooper trade, he starts putting up highlights and has his team back in good looking shape. I'm just really shocked Cowboys fans don't seem to recognize what clearly dragged us down in '17.....

eye ball test shows me receivers are open, especially when it looks to be the hot read. He more often than not looks away too soon, looks in the wrong area, or can't lead the receiver on the run as often as he should be. His line has been top 10 in the league in time to throw, yet half the games we look like the worst passing team in the league.

I'm done with his excuses, done with him. If he looks average again with all the talent around him it would be time to move on.

Before the crying starts, "who are you going to replace him with". I'd rather take a chance at another low salary younger QB than pay $25-$30 mil a year for the same results. This team is going to be better because he got paid? I don't think so.

 

[HungryLion]

Yeah but even Brees and Rodgers need help. Their receiving groups are stacked. Brady is the one argument guys can make for not having elite options around him but he does have a elite head coach.

I think Brady is the best QB of all time. Yet he still does have help. Maybe not as much as others but help.

Gronk is a HoF level TE.

Julian Edelman is no scrub receiver.
Patriots drafted a first round RB to help him this past off season.

He had Brandin Cooks for a season.

He had Moss for several years, etc etc.

He needs less help than others. But he has had plenty of help over his career.

Never mind the incredible defense and special teams that helped him win his first 3 Super Bowls.

So even though Brady is the best ever. It still takes a team to win.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I think Brady is the best QB of all time. Yet he still does have help. Maybe not as much as others but help.

Gronk is a HoF level TE.

Julian Edelman is no scrub receiver.
Patriots drafted a first round RB to help him this past off season.

He had Brandin Cooks for a season.

He had Moss for several years, etc etc.

He needs less help than others. But he has had plenty of help over his career.

Never mind the incredible defense and special teams that helped him win his first 3 Super Bowls.

So even though Brady is the best ever. It still takes a team to win.

Oh I agree. For the majority of his career Brady had elite options around him. Last year the talent was less than most elite qbs have but last year was a anomaly.

 

[Hadenough]

He also hasn’t been healthy. He was terrible last year. Stats aren’t terrible but his play was.

Considering he was coming back from acl surgery and missed the first 4 weeks and then 4 weeks later fractured his vertebrae but continued to play he had a pretty rough year. Didn't really have a chance to gain that same form.

 

[gimmesix]

No offense, you sound way too emotionally invested and like a clown.

I was getting ready to throw a little logic into the discussion as neither a Dak hater or fan who believes he's proven that he's a franchise QB, but based on a few of the posts in here, it's clear that objective viewpoints are not what is desired in this thread.

 

[WillieBeamen]

This just in:

Players in their mid-late 20s all a sudden become washed up in one offseason.


I mean its not like Beasley had a career season and Dez’ last 8 games werent on par with his all-pro season. February-September must be an eternity when it comes to the NFL

 

[HungryLion]

What you are misunderstanding is that while yes, QB's can and do improve after three years and beyond, those improvements come in the form of better understanding of defenses and the ability to read and exploit them. Maybe even subtle refinement of throwing motion for some.

If a QB is still struggling with basic footwork after a career of youth football, high school, college and three years of NFL it seems a reach to think the light bulb is finally going to go off.

Pocket presence and reaction while under duress is even less likely to see improvement. Those are ingrained psychological reactions which would be extremely difficult to train out of an individual.

While it can be honestly said that Dak has shown some improvement it can also be honestly said that he is still well behind the curve relative to top tier QB's entering their fourth season as the starter.

The old rule of thumb is you should know what you have after three seasons. Talking about the need for significant improvements in fundamental footwork at this point should be a huge red flag.

No I do understand that, actually. You’re not telling me anything I don’t know.

I just don’t obsess over it and use that as a reason to disregard the large stretches of play where Dak has produced at above average levels.

You see even with some of his weaknesses Dak has played at above average, pro bowl, levels for stretches of his career. It’s not as if he is so bad that he is just a mess of a quarterback.

So even though Dak has weaknesses we don’t need him to take massive steps in improvement. We really only need him to make some improvement and increase the consistency which he does play very well.

So yeah. We can’t expect QB’s to make massive improvements at this stage of their career. However, Dak doesn’t need to do that, to be a very good QB.

I also disagree about pocket presence. That can be improved when a QB better understands defenses, where everyone can be and is better able to anticipate where to go with the ball. Same
Goes for decision making under duress, which Dak actually is already pretty good at, although definitely on the less aggressive, risk averse side of decision making.

 

[DallasDW00ds0n]

Read 2 posts above you. Returning the same core doesn't mean you have the same quality unit.

Im not buying that in 1 offseason and that playoff performance Dez had against GB; that literally everyone around Dak, but not Dak included, took a step back in their career.

Within 6 months its the worst corps in the league and Dak couldnt possibly get any more out of the group than he had.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Haven't people realized by now that his worst year (his 2nd), he had one of the worst receiving units in the NFL? An aging Jason Witten, a washed out Dez Bryant, decent Terrence Williams, Cole Beasley, Brice Butler, and Noah Brown. One of the most weaksauce receiving units I can think of. That list of names has no flash at all.

It shouldn't be any surprise why his sophomore campaign was a failure. The majority of the criticism he gets is for his 2nd year (or that 16 game streak from Atlanta 2017 game 9 through Tennessee 2018 game 8). After the Cooper trade, he starts putting up highlights and has his team back in good looking shape. I'm just really shocked Cowboys fans don't seem to recognize what clearly dragged us down in '17.....

And that being his worst season still had the team with a winning record and 1 game from the playoffs. It's a personal issue with the ones saying Dak is garbage and not his play.

 

[CouchCoach]

If you admit to realizing that we CAN win a Super Bowl with Dak - the rest of that long debate about who's the best QB of all time is just needless chatter. I don't really care for discussions about "BEST QBS. DAK AINT ONE. HE NEVER WILL BE." Best QBs of all time are obvious imo: Favre, Brady, Manning, Unitas, Staubach, Marino, Montana, Elway, etc. But that discussion should be independently related to the discussion about the ability of our team to earn success in the coming years.

I realized that some time ago, that's not my concern. My concern are those with the job of building the team around him, I do not have a lot of confidence in them. I agree they are better than they used to be but that doesn't mean good enough. The Joneses have been at this for almost 30 years and had two very good HC's to learn from but they didn't.

 

[mattjames2010]

Ask one of your Eagirl fans how Wentz played last year. Ask them why they stuck with Foles even though Wentz was healthy enough to play. Ask them about the reports about how players on the team don’t view him as a leader. Tell me what they tell you.......

I really don't care what Eagles' fans say - Prescott was ranked worse than Wentz.

ESPN QBR had Wentz at 12

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

PFF had him ranked 14

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/carson-wentz/10636

Football Outsiders has him ahead of Prescott in all major categories

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

But yes, what we should be doing is going by emotionally driven fans (the worst fanbase in football, which you here claim) when it suits you.

And LOL on the "locker room" reports from anonymous sources where multiple players came out in defense of Wentz as well.

 

[CouchCoach]

1 Tampa Bay 625 408 65.3 5125 8.6 75 36 26 41 233 94.1 320
2 Pittsburgh 689 459 66.6 5008 7.5 97 35 17 24 166 95.5 313
3 Kansas City 583 385 66.0 4955 8.8 89 50 12 26 171 113.8 310
4 Atlanta 617 428 69.4 4653 8.0 75 36 7 42 296 108.0 291
5 LA Rams 568 368 64.8 4507 8.3 70 32 12 33 223 100.7 282
6 Indianapolis 644 432 67.1 4461 7.1 68 39 15 18 134 98.2 279
7 Philadelphia 599 422 70.5 4275 7.6 83 29 11 40 249 100.8 267
8 New England 574 378 65.9 4258 7.7 63 29 11 21 147 97.8 266
9 Green Bay 640 392 61.3 4238 7.2 75 25 4 53 391 93.7 265
10 LA Chargers 512 348 68.0 4089 8.4 75 32 12 34 227 104.9 256
11 NY Giants 583 382 65.5 4047 7.6 58 23 12 47 358 92.7 253
12 New Orleans 519 381 73.4 4042 8.0 72 33 7 20 132 112.3 253
13 Minnesota 606 425 70.1 4036 7.1 75 30 10 40 262 99.7 252
14 Cleveland 574 353 61.5 4007 7.4 71 29 17 38 254 88.8 250
15 San Francisco 532 331 62.2 3867 8.0 85 26 20 48 380 87.8 242
16 Carolina 563 378 67.1 3836 7.2 82 28 16 32 235 92.9 240
17 Houston 506 345 68.2 3781 8.2 73 26 9 62 384 102.9 236
18 Oakland 556 382 68.7 3751 7.3 66 19 10 52 306 93.6 234
19 Denver 588 367 62.4 3695 6.7 64 19 15 34 235 82.1 231
20 Detroit 574 375 65.3 3576 6.7 67 22 12 41 268 88.5 224
21 Chicago 512 344 67.2 3564 7.3 70 28 14 33 183 95.4 223
22 Baltimore 556 334 60.1 3558 6.7 74 18 9 32 150 84.0 222
23 Dallas 527 356 67.6 3538 7.4 90 22 8 56 347 96.7 221
24 Cincinnati 542 331 61.1 3290 6.6 49 27 13 37 279 87.0 206

We we're 23 in passing last season now why would that be Dak's fault jeez some of you guys don't see the greatness of Dak????

But Pappy, #1, 2 and 4 didn't even make the playoffs.