Report: Dak Prescott counteroffer higher than Carson Wentz deal

[speedkilz88]

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

I'm not sure what this is. Are you saying if a QB has 250 yards, 2 TD's, and 1 INT, 2 sacks for 10 yards in 35 passing attempts it would come out as follows …?

250+50 (TDs)-40 (INTs)-10 (sacks)/35 = 7.1 net yards per pass attempt? If so, no, I haven't looked at that. I can see the benefit of weighing in TDs and INTs, but sacks may or may not have anything to do with the QB.

You mentioned rushing output, which is something else that matters. A good running game can make it easier for a QB to throw because defenses have to focus attention on the run, however it can also mean a QB has less opportunity to accumulate stats because he may be asked to throw less than a QB on a team that doesn't have a good running game.

There is a lot to consider.

Your calculation is correct

 

[LACowboysFan1]

As this drags out, I become more confident in the belief that while Dak wants to be paid more than Wentz, the Cowboys don't believe he's worth that much. My gut tells me that while they like Dak a ton, I think they view him as more system oriented than a guy like Rodgers or Brady and therefore, he's not worth as much as what the elite guys are getting.

Either that or they're just dragging it out to not "cave" too early. And as I've said before "elite" money this year may not be "elite" money in 2-3 years, so regardless of if Dak improves or not, Jerry may be willing to "bite the bullet" and like the old Fram commercial went, "you can pay me now or pay me later".

But who knows what Jerry /Stephen is/are thinking, you could be right..

 

[Sydla]

Can we talk more about this notion that Dak is a winner as proven by his 12 fourth quarter comebacks (or whatever that number is).

I just looked at pro football reference and they have a split for his career that he has a QB rating of 58 when trailing with less than four minutes to go. That's not good. So are the Cowboys winning games late because of Dak or is it other reasons (maybe Zeke is killing it late in games, etc).

For comparison sake:

- Brady has a rating of 89 when trailing with 4 minutes to go
- Brees has a rating of 86 when trailing with 4 minutes to go
- Rodgers has a rating of 82 when trailing with 4 minutes to go
- Wentz has a rating of 81 when trailing with 4 minutes to go

*** I threw Wentz in there as he is the comparison often made. I am not saying Wentz is a QB in the mold of Brady, Brees and Rodgers in their primes.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Can we talk more about this notion that Dak is a winner as proven by his 12 fourth quarter comebacks (or whatever that number is).

I just looked at pro football reference and they have a split for his career that he has a QB rating of 58 when trailing with less than four minutes to go. That's not good. So are the Cowboys winning games late because of Dak or is it other reasons (maybe Zeke is killing it late in games, etc).

For comparison sake:

- Brady has a rating of 89 when trailing with 4 minutes to go
- Brees has a rating of 86 when trailing with 4 minutes to go
- Rodgers has a rating of 82 when trailing with 4 minutes to go
- Wentz has a rating of 81 when trailing with 4 minutes to go

*** I threw Wentz in there as he is the comparison often made. I am not saying Wentz is a QB in the mold of Brady, Brees and Rodgers in their primes.

Tied with less than 4 mins to go: 109.6 rating

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No, but when nobody can make such a comment about being willing to pay $34 million, there's no way of knowing either way. Sort of like having to prove you didn't do something that didn't happen

You can look at the numbers and pretty much figure it out though. I mean, it's not like the other side of the conversation. People saying that you need to pay him 30+ because that's what everybody is paying, that's not true and there is no proof of that at all. At least, if you look at what is available right now, you can do the math and see that there are not a lot of teams that can do a deal with Dak this year.

 

[Sydla]

Tied with less than 4 mins to go: 109.6 rating

OK.

But when the game is tied, you would agree there's less pressure on the QB (or team) to score then when they are trailing, correct?

 

[LACowboysFan1]

You can look at the numbers and pretty much figure it out though. I mean, it's not like the other side of the conversation. People saying that you need to pay him 30+ because that's what everybody is paying, that's not true and there is no proof of that at all. At least, if you look at what is available right now, you can do the math and see that there are not a lot of teams that can do a deal with Dak this year.

Problem is you could have a team like the 49ers, who hugely overpaid for Garappolo, based on very limited work, some team could be enamored with Dak's toughness and other things and think THEY could turn him into an elite quarterback.

But we don't know for sure, I for one will be glad when the deal is done....

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Both ways? I'm the one that said nobody posting here knows anything. So which way would I have it? I'm not suggesting anything, quite the contrary. You seem to be in love with the number 34 mil. I don't know where you got that or why it's relevant to Dak. Maybe its another of your assumptions you like to do.

The number 34 Mil would be the amount Wentz got for signing as an extension. In Dak's case, it's 32 (Wentz's number) plus the existing 2 mil he will receive this year. The 128 mil plus the 2 mil remaining is 130 divided by 5 years because you would be adding 4 years to the existing 1 year still left, to come up with an average 26 mil a year. I mean, if you want to say that Wentz got x amount so Dak will get that as well, OK, that's what Wentz got. Those are the numbers if you say that Dak should get the same deal.

So you see, it's not an assumption at all. It's the numbers that are being discussed. Not numbers that I created but the actual numbers if you were to give Dak a deal like Wentz's.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This is a wildly nonsensical argument. What team made it known they were willing to pay Carson Wentz $32MM? What team made it known they were willing to pay Russell Wilson $35MM? What team ever publicly declares what it would be willing to pay a player under contract to another team? Not only does that not happen, it is specifically prohibited under league rules. Under league rules a team cannot tamper with a player under contract to another team by letting him know what it would be willing to pay him. Hell, even if a team decided to try and get away with it, it would be done behind closed doors rather than publicly and blatantly violating team rules by putting it out in the media.

The question is not, "What team made it know". The question is, what team can do this? The info is there, we've done the exercise. I don't see a team that can do a deal with Dak this year. I mean, who cares who said what? What team out there can do this? It's a simple question. Name the team that can offer Dak that kind of money this year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

LOL why would any teams be offering dak a contract now?? he is not a FA

Keep up Don. The question is about money in the pocket. If Dak holds out for 34 a year, that deal is a deal that goes into effect this year. That means that if you are going to say that there are teams out there that would pay Dak 30+ a year so the Cowboys should pay him 30+, then you have to prove that there is a team out there who could do that this year. Otherwise, you are bidding against yourself. Why would you ever do that? Dak walks away from a deal this year in order to wait for next and he walks away from millions of dollars he can never recover contractually. I mean, this aint hard man.

 

[OmerV]

The question is not, "What team made it know". The question is, what team can do this? The info is there, we've done the exercise. I don't see a team that can do a deal with Dak this year. I mean, who cares who said what? What team out there can do this? It's a simple question. Name the team that can offer Dak that kind of money this year.

. Huh? Are you still not getting that Dak is under contract to the Cowboys this year, so obviously no team can sign him this year?

And you still not getting that lots of teams sign players before their existing contract expires, with the reason being they don’t want the player exposed to other teams next year and the years after? Plus, to look ck in on today’s prices rather than next years higher prices? It’s a common practice. It isnt unique to the Cowboys.

 

[OmerV]

Keep up Don. The question is about money in the pocket. If Dak holds out for 34 a year, that deal is a deal that goes into effect this year. That means that if you are going to say that there are teams out there that would pay Dak 30+ a year so the Cowboys should pay him 30+, then you have to prove that there is a team out there who could do that this year. Otherwise, you are bidding against yourself. Why would you ever do that? Dak walks away from a deal this year in order to wait for next and he walks away from millions of dollars he can never recover contractually. I mean, this aint hard man.

You are the one that keeps saying you dont see a team that can sign Dak this year, so it’s completely fair to point out how silly that is as an argument since he isn’t available to be signed this year.

 

[JoeKing]

The number 34 Mil would be the amount Wentz got for signing as an extension. In Dak's case, it's 32 (Wentz's number) plus the existing 2 mil he will receive this year. The 128 mil plus the 2 mil remaining is 130 divided by 5 years because you would be adding 4 years to the existing 1 year still left, to come up with an average 26 mil a year. I mean, if you want to say that Wentz got x amount so Dak will get that as well, OK, that's what Wentz got. Those are the numbers if you say that Dak should get the same deal.

So you see, it's not an assumption at all. It's the numbers that are being discussed. Not numbers that I created but the actual numbers if you were to give Dak a deal like Wentz's.

It took you 4 days to tell me that. I'll get back to you, maybe it'll take me 4 days too.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Problem is you could have a team like the 49ers, who hugely overpaid for Garappolo, based on very limited work, some team could be enamored with Dak's toughness and other things and think THEY could turn him into an elite quarterback.

But we don't know for sure, I for one will be glad when the deal is done....

But not this year LA. I mean, thats the key. Understand, we are talking about guaranteed money this season. We are basically talking about a minimum of something like 25 mil he would make this year, instead of 2 mil. If Dak waits on another team to come forward and offer him 30+, that means that he waits till 2020 to get that money. He basically leaves 25 or more on the table and he can't make that up. So you really need to think about the money from the perspective of how much are you going to make over the entire course of your career, then you have to think about what can take away, in my pocket, right now. If he does a deal this year, he puts that additional money in his pocket now. If he waits, yes he probably will make 30 plus but he would never make up that money he would miss on if he signed this year. If he does a deal for like 26 or 27 he's in a position to come up on a contract sooner and for bigger money. The longer he waits, the more money he gets per year, the longer the contract is likely to be. He would be wise to take less now, for 2 seasons and a player option 3rd year and get to a new contract sooner. That's how he would make the most money, is what I'm saying.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

. Huh? Are you still not getting that Dak is under contract to the Cowboys this year, so obviously no team can sign him this year?

And you still not getting that lots of teams sign players before their existing contract expires, with the reason being they don’t want the player exposed to other teams next year and the years after? Plus, to look ck in on today’s prices rather than next years higher prices? It’s a common practice. It isnt unique to the Cowboys.

OMG, this can not be real. I mean, you know I understand that because all I've done is post about that throughout this entire thread. If you do not intend to be serious about this, then just leave it alone. I'm not going to argue with you, because you simply want to argue. Of course I know that and you know I understand that but it doesn't change the numbers.

If you are go claim that the team owes him that kind of contract because he could get that from other teams, then you have to show a team out there who could put that deal together this year. Come on, you know this but you don't want to deal with this because it undercuts your position. Just be honest about it and let discuss this on the merits of what makes most sense. Why does this have to be such a bone head discussion?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You are the one that keeps saying you dont see a team that can sign Dak this year, so it’s completely fair to point out how silly that is as an argument since he isn’t available to be signed this year.

Not that I haven't explained it to you but I will do it again. There is no team that can put a deal like that together this year. The Cowboys have the leverage in this negotiation because Dak is not stupid. They don't need to offer him 30 plus. They could put a deal together for him that would pay him 25 to 27 for a shorter period of time. That is fair to the team and to Dak. I mean, how do you not get this? It is stupid to pay him more then you need to and there is no team who can pay him more then the Cowboys this year, in all reality. I mean, unless you can show me the team who is in a financial position to put a better deal together this year, then paying him more means you are bidding against yourself. Why in the world would the Cowboys do that? What sense does that make?

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

The question is not, "What team made it know". The question is, what team can do this? The info is there, we've done the exercise. I don't see a team that can do a deal with Dak this year. I mean, who cares who said what? What team out there can do this? It's a simple question. Name the team that can offer Dak that kind of money this year.

Oh that's easy. It's a team that can offer it next year, not this year that's silly.

I won't name all of them since there are in excess of 20 teams who can, but a few:
Dolphins, Bucs, Giants, Bills, Chargers, Patriots, Bengals, Broncos, Raiders, and Titans.

So you not being able to see a team that can do the deal is pretty baffling, since it's such an easy excercise. Especially considering 20+teams can do this. Makes us wonder what you are looking at if you cant see at least one team.

Even if you wanted to do that excercise for this year(which doesnt make sense) those teams still include:
49ers, Titans, Dolphins, etc

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It took you 4 days to tell me that. I'll get back to you, maybe it'll take me 4 days too.

If it takes you forever, I'm good with it. Seriously, the longer the better in your case.

 

[OmerV]

But not this year LA. I mean, thats the key. Understand, we are talking about guaranteed money this season. We are basically talking about a minimum of something like 25 mil he would make this year, instead of 2 mil. If Dak waits on another team to come forward and offer him 30+, that means that he waits till 2020 to get that money. He basically leaves 25 or more on the table and he can't make that up. So you really need to think about the money from the perspective of how much are you going to make over the entire course of your career, then you have to think about what can take away, in my pocket, right now. If he does a deal this year, he puts that additional money in his pocket now. If he waits, yes he probably will make 30 plus but he would never make up that money he would miss on if he signed this year. If he does a deal for like 26 or 27 he's in a position to come up on a contract sooner and for bigger money. The longer he waits, the more money he gets per year, the longer the contract is likely to be. He would be wise to take less now, for 2 seasons and a player option 3rd year and get to a new contract sooner. That's how he would make the most money, is what I'm saying.

what you are talking about is the same scenario other players with other teams face, but somehow you think it should translate into Dak giving a discount that other players with other teams don’t give.