Report: Dak Prescott counteroffer higher than Carson Wentz deal

[Birdgang]

Lmao you want me to start listing all the QBs that didnt get ROTY and win a playoff game in their first three seasons?

But, regardless, saying he needs to accomplish something first is just a silly statement. He's more accomplished than 90% of QBs at the same point in their careers.

using ROTY is a bad point to use for accomplishments. Only one of them has won a SB in the list. Just winning division does not mean all that much either .... If you se that as a point you have to factor in all of the reasons and situations for it. Its a team sport and how does he do when things are not ideal ? Dak is a good QB and no doubt godo enough to win a SB.

The biggest things going for him are what you should base it on.

1. The most important of all , availability to play. He has shown great durability even when taken a beating.
2. He has good leadership skills and players will follow him.
3. he fights to the end , there is no give up in him.

 

[glimmerman]

Thank you for an intelligent response without any insults. I tend to agree with you. Dak may grow more and as Cowboy fans we certainly hope he does. All I’m saying is let’s let him play out his contract and see what he does in his 4th year with a pretty talented roster before they make him the highest paid QB.

No need for insults. We are mostly all Cowboy fans and want to get to the same place (SB). We just have different ways and views and opinions on how to get there.

I have no problem letting him play out his rookie deal, especially if his agent isn’t willing to come down off the 34 a year. In no way shape or form does he deserve the same or more money than a QB that’s seasoned and been to 2 SB. Won one and lost one. All Wilson had to do was turn around and hand the ball off and he is sitting with 2 rings right now. When I saw that play call it had Linehan and JG written all over it.. Lol.

Anyways I think I heard Dak say that he is actively involved in the negotiations. If he honestly can think he deserves at this stage in his career to be the highest paid QB then he is crazy. If he thinks he is the best then I like the confidence but simply not true yet.

Problem is that the FO seems to be sold on him being the franchise QB. And if JJ has anything to do with it he may decide to gamble on it and pay him the money.

If Dak continues to improve and helps take us to the SB and wins it all then in 2 or 3 year the money will be a bargain at 34. The dang chiefs and maybe the rams are going to drive the market way up. IMO the egirls ruined the market by paying a injured QB 32. He has a right by that he didn’t win. He helped some but never played in it. He should have gotten 28-30 maybe. They drove the market up.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

using ROTY is a bad point to use for accomplishments. Only one of them has won a SB in the list. Just winning division does not mean all that much either .... If you se that as a point you have to factor in all of the reasons and situations for it. Its a team sport and how does he do when things are not ideal ? Dak is a good QB and no doubt godo enough to win a SB.

The biggest things going for him are what you should base it on.

1. The most important of all , availability to play. He has shown great durability even when taken a beating.
2. He has good leadership skills and players will follow him.
3. he fights to the end , there is no give up in him.

ROTY is one of the most sought after accomplishments.
There is absolutely no reason to exclude that from the conversation when discussing accomplishments/accolades

Your list of three, none of them are accomplishments. So I agree that you should not include any of those that you listed.

 

[Birdgang]

ROTY is one of the most sought after accomplishments.
There is absolutely no reason to exclude that from the conversation when discussing accomplishments/accolades

Your list of three, none of them are accomplishments. So I agree that you should not include any of those that you listed.

I didn't say it was not a great accomplishment, it just does not go so well for Qbs that won it. Much like the Heisman award where an only a handful of winners had great careers. Dak had an amazing rookie year but he has had some pretty low points too. How many game streak did he have no TDs ? I'm far from a Dak hater, I like the guy ... but use things that are directly attached to him and not the team.

btw durability, heart, and leadership is extremely important for a QB. Which he as all three.... not sure how you would ignore them.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

I didn't say it was not a great accomplishment, it just does not go so well for Qbs that won it. Much like the Heisman award where an only a handful of winners had great careers. Dak had an amazing rookie year but he has had some pretty low points too. How many game streak did he have no TDs ? I'm far from a Dak hater, I like the guy ... but use things that are directly attached to him and not the team.

btw durability, heart, and leadership is extremely important for a QB. Which he as all three.... not sure how you would ignore them.

Again, durability, heart, and leadership aren't accomplishments, which was the entire discussion

 

[glimmerman]

This whole thing is tricky. I know he will only continue to improve. How much more I don’t know. But if they keep a team around him then he can lead them. This is a team game. And by team it also includes the staff. When you make the playoffs then player talent is closer to even across the board so players must execute on a high level. But it’s the coaching that makes the game plans and calls the plays and situational plays and adjustments. Our HC IMO has hit his ceiling and rarely on Offense do we make adjustments. We get out coached in big games. Our players including Dak has to win despite the staff. This is why Romo later in his career was so important to the team. He could read defenses so well and could go to the line and change the play on the fly or even change it in the huddle. He ran this Offense after all his years starting for us. I think Linehan and JG leaned on that fact.

 

[Birdgang]

ROTY is one of the most sought after accomplishments.
There is absolutely no reason to exclude that from the conversation when discussing accomplishments/accolades

Your list of three, none of them are accomplishments. So I agree that you should not include any of those that you listed.

because he has not really accomplished anything yet that would validate what some are saying about him. I said instead the things he should be judged on instead.... all in context within the discussion. ROY so far only 1 qb that has won, made it to the SB and left with Lombardi. The Probowl is a joke and has been for going on 20 years. Playoffs? 1-2 is not anything to write home about. The Division ? 2 of the teams that had better shots, seasons died due to to injuries. 2016 .... 2 teams had Rookie HCs implementing new systems.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

because he has not really accomplished anything yet that would validate what some are saying about him. I said instead the things he should be judged on instead.... all in context within the discussion. ROY so far only 1 qb that has won, made it to the SB and left with Lombardi. The Probowl is a joke and has been for going on 20 years. Playoffs? 1-2 is not anything to write home about. The Division ? 2 of the teams that had better shots, seasons died due to to injuries. 2016 .... 2 teams had Rookie HCs implementing new systems.

Lol

 

[StuckMojo]

I may be in the minority but I thought Zeke should have been ROTY that season

 

[Birdgang]

Lol

The truth is pretty funny, but don't try and turn it around like I said something I didn't. So now you have nothing to say but a cute emjoi to try and back out now. Dak is good enough to win a SB the things holding him back are Couching/ play calling... and he got in his own head after 2016 , we saw that in 2017. He then pulled it together in 2018.

 

[Kevinicus]

I may be in the minority but I thought Zeke should have been ROTY that season

He was the reasonable choice.

 

[mcmvp]

I may be in the minority but I thought Zeke should have been ROTY that season

He should’ve won it...the blame for that goes to the voters. Dak was phenomenal his rookie year with what he was asked to do. I’m only saying it makes zero sense to give a QB the RoY when the team ranked dead last the league in pass attempts and you have an NFL leading rusher on a team that ranked 1st in rushing attempts.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

You know, it's entirely possible that the Cowboys are perfectly fine with a "bus driver" quarterback, IF that's what Dak is and will always be, and are willing to fork out the money to keep Dak, even if he doesn't improve, just to have a quarterback that has decent stats and doesn't make a lot of mistakes, e.g. ints and fumbles....

 

[OmerV]

You know, it's entirely possible that the Cowboys are perfectly fine with a "bus driver" quarterback, IF that's what Dak is and will always be, and are willing to fork out the money to keep Dak, even if he doesn't improve, just to have a quarterback that has decent stats and doesn't make a lot of mistakes, e.g. ints and fumbles....

This is true, and something to keep in mind is there are layers - it isn't either a QB is a star/elite player, or a bus driver, or bad. Those are easy labels, but there are points in between.

In my mind Dak is definitely more than a mere bus driver, and still has room to improve, but is not, and probably ever will be, elite.

And, remember, big stats aren't the only measure of quality in a QB. Our own Troy Aikman was maybe the prime example. He was a great QB, but not a big stats guy. Dak will likely never reach Aikman's level as a leader, but if he can provide something at least close to the same kind of leadership it can be a big plus for the team.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

This is true, and something to keep in mind is there are layers - it isn't either a QB is a star/elite player, or a bus driver, or bad. Those are easy labels, but there are points in between.

In my mind Dak is definitely more than a mere bus driver, and still has room to improve, but is not, and probably ever will be, elite.

And, remember, big stats aren't the only measure of quality in a QB. Our own Troy Aikman was maybe the prime example. He was a great QB, but not a big stats guy. Dak will likely never reach Aikman's level as a leader, but if he can provide something at least close to the same kind of leadership it can be a big plus for the team.

Omer, what are your preferred stats in evaluation of QB play?

I know stats are only part of the story but I'm still curious.

 

[Sydla]

As this drags out, I become more confident in the belief that while Dak wants to be paid more than Wentz, the Cowboys don't believe he's worth that much. My gut tells me that while they like Dak a ton, I think they view him as more system oriented than a guy like Rodgers or Brady and therefore, he's not worth as much as what the elite guys are getting.

 

[OmerV]

Omer, what are your preferred stats in evaluation of QB play?

I know stats are only part of the story but I'm still curious.

I don't know if I have "preferred stats" - I think it takes looking at the overall picture. I think efficiency is important (completion%, TD/INT ratio etc …), but i would also say some degree of efficiency can be sacrificed for overall production. But the same is true the other way - yardage totals aren't a strong indicator if a QB is making too many mistakes. And then there are intangibles - leadership, defenses, making decisions … those things are crucial as well. Every QB has all these things in varying degrees, so the real key is how they blend into the whole.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

I don't know if I have "preferred stats" - I think it takes looking at the overall picture. I think efficiency is important (completion%, TD/INT ratio etc …), but i would also say some degree of efficiency can be sacrificed for overall production. But the same is true the other way - yardage totals aren't a strong indicator if a QB is making too many mistakes. And then there are intangibles - leadership, defenses, making decisions … those things are crucial as well. Every QB has all these things in varying degrees, so the real key is how they blend into the whole.

Have to ever delved into net yards per pass attempt?

-40 yards for INTs
+25 yards for TDs
Sack yardage is subtracted

On top of the holes you mentioned, we havent even touched on rushing output

 

[OmerV]

Have to ever delved into net yards per pass attempt?

-40 yards for INTs
+25 yards for TDs
Sack yardage is subtracted

On top of the holes you mentioned, we havent even touched on rushing output

I'm not sure what this is. Are you saying if a QB has 250 yards, 2 TD's, and 1 INT, 2 sacks for 10 yards in 35 passing attempts it would come out as follows …?

250+50 (TDs)-40 (INTs)-10 (sacks)/35 = 7.1 net yards per pass attempt? If so, no, I haven't looked at that. I can see the benefit of weighing in TDs and INTs, but sacks may or may not have anything to do with the QB.

You mentioned rushing output, which is something else that matters. A good running game can make it easier for a QB to throw because defenses have to focus attention on the run, however it can also mean a QB has less opportunity to accumulate stats because he may be asked to throw less than a QB on a team that doesn't have a good running game.

There is a lot to consider.

 

[starfan1]

42 pages of this garbage. I'm thinking we are starting to get in Quincy and Hutch thread territory. Some of those were epic.