Drafting a first round QB

[erod]

The same Witten that may not have even been a pro bowler if not for Romo. According to you.

The NFL is full of guys who were brought into horrible situations and never had the career they could have had.

Witten would have been good in Cleveland, but he wouldn't be anything close to who he is. Romo put balls in places for Witten that were just not possible for random quarterbacks. Witten sure wasn't running away from people like Kelce or Gonzalez.

Do you remember Curt Warner? One of the best running backs the league has seen, but he was stuck on a horrible and obscure team in Seattle before free agency existed. Archie Manning could have been Tom Brady, but the Saints destroyed him. Keith Jackson could be where Tony Gonzalez is with the right situation.

On the contrary, Phil Simms was not a good quarterback, but he got drafted by the right team and coach. You think Julian Edelman would be who he is if he was in Tampa?

 

[erod]

2021 Trevor Lawrence is the jackpot.

But this year there’s several who I’d look at. And it doesn’t have to be first round. Unless your content Cooper Rush is adequate in the event.

Here’s a few that will go in early rounds.
Tua- Bama
Herbert- Oregon
Fromm- Georgia
Eason- Washington
Hurts- OU

Lawrence isn't looking so jackpot like this year. And Tua's stock is dropping rapidly.

The best QB in college right now is Joe Burrow, hands down. He'll be the #1 quarterback taken.

 

[OmerV]

In the 2016 draft, the Cowboys only took Dak after trying to trade up for Paxton Lynch (1st round) then Connor Cook (3rd). They fell into Dak by accident.

Go back a bit in time, when Jerry moved to get Quincy Carter. They fell into Romo by accident.

Then let's not forget Jerry wanted Johnny Football, but was finally talked out of it by everyone in the room.

"Dump Dak and draft a 'franchise' QB!"

It sounds so easy, but remember who will be doing the picking.

It actually doesn't sound easy for any of them - none of those QBs the OP mentioned were Cowboy draft picks, and the success rate was still low.

 

[HungryLion]

The NFL is full of guys who were brought into horrible situations and never had the career they could have had.

Witten would have been good in Cleveland, but he wouldn't be anything close to who he is. Romo put balls in places for Witten that were just not possible for random quarterbacks. Witten sure wasn't running away from people like Kelce or Gonzalez.

Do you remember Curt Warner? One of the best running backs the league has seen, but he was stuck on a horrible and obscure team in Seattle before free agency existed. Archie Manning could have been Tom Brady, but the Saints destroyed him. Keith Jackson could be where Tony Gonzalez is with the right situation.

On the contrary, Phil Simms was not a good quarterback, but he got drafted by the right team and coach. You think Julian Edelman would be who he is if he was in Tampa?

I agree with your overall argument that supporting cast matters.

I’ve actually made that argument myself many times. The big disagreement is, I use that argument to claim that there aren’t really many QB’s that don’t need a good supporting cast to be successful. Except for maybe a few elite QB’s at any given time. Even the best still don’t win titles without help though.

you use that argument to claim that Dak has the best supporting cast ever for a young QB and wouldn’t be anything without them. I disagree with that overall premise. I don’t think Dak needs more help to be productive then most other good QB’s.

 

[Diehardblues]

Lawrence isn't looking so jackpot like this year. And Tua's stock is dropping rapidly.

The best QB in college right now is Joe Burrow, hands down. He'll be the #1 quarterback taken.

Yea from LSU. His stock has skyrocketed.

I wasn’t sure if was a jr or sr. I went straight from memory .

 

[Diehardblues]

I agree with your overall argument that supporting cast matters.

I’ve actually made that argument myself many times. The big disagreement is, I use that argument to claim that there aren’t really many QB’s that don’t need a good supporting cast to be successful. Except for maybe a few at any given time. Even the best still don’t win titles without help though.

you use that argument to claim that Dak has the best supporting cast ever for a young QB and wouldn’t be anything without them. I disagree with that overall premise.

I’m trying to think of other Rookie QB’s who that level of supporting cast recently? Mahomes has pretty good situation in KC.

Like you said all QB’s need a supporting cast. Look how poorly Aikman did without it early and late in his career.

The difference is what he did with it when he had it. That’s what separates the great ones. The window in Cap era for having all the supporting cast wont last long. And a lot shorter after we pay him.

 

[xwalker]

In the 2016 draft, the Cowboys only took Dak after trying to trade up for Paxton Lynch (1st round) then Connor Cook (3rd). They fell into Dak by accident.

Go back a bit in time, when Jerry moved to get Quincy Carter. They fell into Romo by accident.

Then let's not forget Jerry wanted Johnny Football, but was finally talked out of it by everyone in the room.

"Dump Dak and draft a 'franchise' QB!"

It sounds so easy, but remember who will be doing the picking.

It was only Jerry that wanted to trade up for Lynch.
- SJones, much like with Manziel made certain that didn't happen.
They had Cook on their draft board which was leaked that year in the 2nd round.
- They drafted DT Collins in the 3rd round skipping Cook who went in the 4th.
- They had Jeff Driskel 1 spot above Dak on the board but skipped him and drafted Dak.

The draft board does not mean what most fans/media think it means.

The Cowboys spent more time with Dak pre-draft than any draft prospect since Jerry has owned the team.

 

[HungryLion]

It was only Jerry that wanted to trade up for Lynch.
- SJones, much like with Manziel made certain that didn't happen.
They had Cook on their draft board which was leaked that year in the 2nd round.
- They drafted DT Collins in the 3rd round skipping Cook who went in the 4th.
- They had Jeff Driskel 1 spot above Dak on the board but skipped him and drafted Dak.

The draft board does not mean what most fans/media think it means.

The Cowboys spent more time with Dak pre-draft than any draft prospect since Jerry has owned the team.

This is true @xwalker I do think there was some luck involved. Anytime you find a player like Dak in the 4th there’s some luck involved.

that being said, the Cowboys did scout Dak Very heavily and they were willing to take him
Sooner than any other team. So they do deserve credit also.

 

[erod]

I agree with your overall argument that supporting cast matters.

I’ve actually made that argument myself many times. The big disagreement is, I use that argument to claim that there aren’t really many QB’s that don’t need a good supporting cast to be successful. Except for maybe a few at any given time. Even the best still don’t win titles without help though.

you use that argument to claim that Dak has the best supporting cast ever for a young QB and wouldn’t be anything without them. I disagree with that overall premise.

The premise of it all is actually quite simple.

As it stands, Dak is an incredible quarterback to have in this situation at his cost and value to the team.

But the minute you pay him like he's the centerpiece of the offense, his value completely inverts to a drag on the team.

They need to franchise him until he shows he proves he can carry the team with key players out of the lineup. So far, he just can't. He needs everything to be in place to be effective. Elite quarterbacks don't miss much of a beat.

 

[jnday]

Again, NFL teams put significant resources into scouting NFL players. Most of these QB’s drafted had chances to play, on multiple teams before washing out.

so explain that.

They may play on multiple teams , but their level of play never reaches their potential. Are you really trying to argue the point that some teams are known as QB career killers or are you trying to argue the point that many young QBs are ruined during their rookie deals due to poor coaching/coaching changes , very little talent surrounding them and very bad circumstances that hinders their their development? I think there is tons of evidence to support that many of these highly drafted QBs never reaches their full potential and it is not entirely their fault because of being rushed to play before they are mentally or physically prepared and many other reasons beyond their control. NFL scouts are not that bad at scouting QBs and their potential at the pro level.

 

[cowboygo]

The premise of it all is actually quite simple.

As it stands, Dak is an incredible quarterback to have in this situation at his cost and value to the team.

But the minute you pay him like he's the centerpiece of the offense, his value completely inverts to a drag on the team.

They need to franchise him until he shows he proves he can carry the team with key players out of the lineup. So far, he just can't. He needs everything to be in place to be effective. Elite quarterbacks don't miss much of a beat.

I agree that a franchise QB should be able to carry a team with key players out of the lineup. I also think the current staff cannot gameplan with key players out of the lineup.

 

[jnday]

This is true @xwalker I do think there was some luck involved. Anytime you find a player like Dak in the 4th there’s some luck involved.

that being said, the Cowboys did scout Dak Very heavily and they were willing to take him
Sooner than any other team. So they do deserve credit also.

They actually ran out of their preferred options at the QB position. They had several QBs rated ahead if Dak , but things didn’t work out for Dallas being in the position to draft them.

 

[HungryLion]

They may play on multiple teams , but their level of play never reaches their potential. Are you really trying to argue the point that some teams are known as QB career killers or are you trying to argue the point that many young QBs are ruined during their rookie deals due to poor coaching/coaching changes , very little talent surrounding them and very bad circumstances that hinders their their development? I think there is tons of evidence to support that many of these highly drafted QBs never reaches their full potential and it is not entirely their fault because of being rushed to play before they are mentally or physically prepared and many other reasons beyond their control. NFL scouts are not that bad at scouting QBs and their potential at the pro level.

I don’t disagree with that. Some players do have their careers ruined by circumstance. Not just QB’s actuallly. That goes for every position IMO.

I do think that needs to be taken into consideration. Supporting cast does matter. I have always agreed supporting cast matters, except for a very few super elite QB’s.

How much does it benefit the team to replace one QB who needs a good supporting cast, with another QB who needs a good supporting cast? Yeah u save cap space, but you also burn high draft picks doing it. Draft picks which can be used to strengthen the overall team.

so what’s more important? The cap space or the first round picks? That’s a fair debate to have.

 

[Diehardblues]

This is true @xwalker I do think there was some luck involved. Anytime you find a player like Dak in the 4th there’s some luck involved.

that being said, the Cowboys did scout Dak Very heavily and they were willing to take him
Sooner than any other team. So they do deserve credit also.

Very true. They had Dak rated high on their board in 4th round.

The bigger question is did they draft him as heir apparent to Romo or more as a solid backup as someone who could win if Romo went down??

The lucky part came when he was more successful than just a strong backup. I’d argue we got Dak right. He was the strong backup we were looking for. So strong he earned a shot at starting.

 

[HungryLion]

They actually ran out of their preferred options at the QB position. They had several QBs rated ahead if Dak , but things didn’t work out for Dallas being in the position to draft them.

I think they also prioritized getting other players ahead of the QB. We have to remember Romo was healthy and ready to play at the time the draft was happening.

they did get guys like Jaylon and Maliek Collins with those 2nd and 3rd round picks. Both solid to good players.

 

[OmerV]

This is true @xwalker I do think there was some luck involved. Anytime you find a player like Dak in the 4th there’s some luck involved.

that being said, the Cowboys did scout Dak Very heavily and they were willing to take him
Sooner than any other team. So they do deserve credit also.

Sure there is some luck involved - there always is with the draft. With every team. No team can control exactly how the draft will go, and what players will still be available when their turn comes up. All they can do is make the best choice they can from the choices available at that time. So while luck plays a part in who is available, if the team makes a good choice they should get some credit for that.

 

[HungryLion]

Sure there is some luck involved - there always is with the draft. With every team. No team can control exactly how the draft will go, and what players will still be available when their turn comes up. All they can do is make the best choice they can from the choices available at that time. So while luck plays a part in who is available, if the team makes a good choice they should get some credit for that.

absolutely. They were willing to take Dak before any other team was willing to take him. They made the right call more than any other team when it comes to Dak. They deserve credit with that.

 

[HungryLion]

Very true. They had Dak rated high on their board in 4th round.

The bigger question is did they draft him as heir apparent to Romo or more as a solid backup as someone who could win if Romo went down??

The lucky part came when he was more successful than just a strong backup. I’d argue we got Dak right. He was the strong backup we were looking for. So strong he earned a shot at starting.

i think he was taken as a developmental QB.

they knew Romo was older and recently hurt.
They thought about drafting a first round QB for the heir apparent.

i Dont think he was taken as a strictly backup. They decided to buy a lottery ticket and hope it hit with a 4th round comp pick. And the ticket hit.

 

[jnday]

Let’s all think back to the early 2000s when we went through qbs like Cleveland has been doing....would you rather have that or Dak ....I’ll take dak all day

I don’t let fear of failure dictate the efforts to upgrade any position if I am the GM. That is an attitude of fear which will result in some very safe, but very average players on a roster . Should DEs be avoided in the draft because of the performance if Taco?

 

[408Cowboy]

i think he was taken as a developmental QB.

they knew Romo was older and recently hurt.
They thought about drafting a first round QB for the heir apparent.

i Dont think he was taken as a strictly backup. They decided to buy a lottery ticket and hope it hit with a 4th round comp pick. And the ticket hit.

Didn't Jerry once say something about Romo helping to pick the heir when it came to that? Don't know why but I seen to remember that.