The straw that will break the camel's back

[DasTex]

My question here is this

Is the college game and pro game becoming close to the same. If that's the case, does it make sense to move to a model where you don't spend a large percentage of your cap on the QB and you just continue to draft them and replace them?

You see QBs out of college have an easier transition to the NFL these days....is that something you take into consideration here?

Spend majority of the money on talent around the QB or spend it on the QB and have them make the talent around them better?

 

[McKDaddy]

I don't think Tua is that good

can you elaborate?

 

[Future]

Show me the stats of those QBs right now and then we'll talk. TD/INT ratio? Fumbles? Sacks? I need more information because they have more wins than Dak. Now, I don't like using wins as a QB stat, but in all of these wins these teams have had, their offenses and QB's have played miles better than Dak has. I know, playcalling is bad, coaching is terrible, but I've seen Dak make a lot more bad decisions and throws than those QB's.

None of those offenses have been better than Dallas, especially not the passing game, and even more especially not BECAUSE of their QB.

Remember when Theilen trashed Cousins?
Remember when Rodgers threw for 161 and 104 yards in two out of three games?
Remember when the Saints offense was just as good without Brees?

They might have better TD/INT, but they aren't making any plays. Dak has also had, what, 3 picks on tipped balls and 2 on Hail Marys? Taking what the defense gives is easy in the NFL, that's all Rodgers and Brees do. Cousins does a little more, but turns it over when he does. Josh Allen's offense has been abysmal until Thursday.

Dak is the Cowboys entire offense right now, despite fact that they lead the league in dropped balls and have crappy playcalling every single week.

So no, I don't want to hear any nonsense about he's not even top 5. There's 3 QBs in the league who are productive without the help of their defense, special teams or coaching - Watson, Wilson, and Dak. Lamar and Mahomes are special. After that, there is a MASSIVE gap to the next tier - Rodgers, Brees and everyone else included.

 

[mattjames2010]

I keep seeing people say the Cowboys should go draft a QB better than Dak...like it's something that can be done by throwing a dart at the draft board.

Ever hear of these guys (overall pick number)?
Jamarcus Russell (#1)
Paxton Lynch (#26)
Brady Quinn (#22)
Jake Locker (#8)
Johnny Manziel (#22)
Tim Tebow (#25)
EJ Manuel (#16)
Brandon Weeden (#22)
Matt Leinart (#10)
Christian Ponder (#12)
J.P. Losman (#22)
Blaine Gabbert (#10)
Patrick Ramsey (#32)
Kyle Boller (#19)
David Carr (#1)
Josh Rosen (#10)
Joey Harrington (#3)
Josh Freeman (#17)
Jason Campbell (#25)
Byron Leftwich (#7)

That's 20 first round picks...I would take none of them over Dak. If picking an above average (forget great) QB was easy, all 32 teams would have at least one.

The "it's hard" argument again. Great organizations find great QBs. "It's too hard tho" is something from a mediocre organization.

 

[Future]

My question here is this

Is the college game and pro game becoming close to the same. If that's the case, does it make sense to move to a model where you don't spend a large percentage of your cap on the QB and you just continue to draft them and replace them?

You see QBs out of college have an easier transition to the NFL these days....is that something you take into consideration here?

Spend majority of the money on talent around the QB or spend it on the QB and have them make the talent around them better?

No, because NFL defenses will eventually catch up.

But I do think it is smart to invest in a system. For instance, a smart system and plenty of skill/speed that gets the ball out quickly means you really don't need to make heavy investments in the OL.

 

[Diehardblues]

My question here is this

Is the college game and pro game becoming close to the same. If that's the case, does it make sense to move to a model where you don't spend a large percentage of your cap on the QB and you just continue to draft them and replace them?

You see QBs out of college have an easier transition to the NFL these days....is that something you take into consideration here?

Spend majority of the money on talent around the QB or spend it on the QB and have them make the talent around them better?

This is an interesting concept which I think is worth consideration. Especially in Cap era.

Much like we'd evaluate any player at another position. Are they talented enough to lock up in a long term investment or should we look to replace them in the draft which we see teams doing more and more on basically every position but QB.

 

[McKDaddy]

There aren't 5 quarterbacks in the league better than him right now.

At a miniumum, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Brees, Jackson, Brady. When you factor in all the young QB's that have taken over for established vets the last couple years, the threshold isn't that high to be top 10.

 

[Redball Express]

This is not a Dak Prescott thread, it's just the opposite. This is about what to do instead of signing him to a long term deal.

There are some that want to tag him, pay him 30M for one season and draft a QB, I do not. The reason being you are still going to have to keep paying a lot of money to surround him with talent. I think Byron Jones is better at his position than Prescott is at his and more critical to keep. There are other options for a more affordable QB like maybe Bridgewater if Brees doesn't retire.

This team is unusual in that they have 4 OL in the top 6 paid at their position, the top paid RB and 3/4 DE and as a group they are not delivering according to their cap hits. They're not bad, just not that good.

Prescott is not bad either just not as good as the Tier 1 QBs with GB, NO and SEA and questionable whether he's as good as the one in SF. Do we want to make the same mistake that it looks like LAR and PHL have made?

It has become apparent to me that to be a true contender year after year, a team has to have that Tier 1 QB. Dak Prescott is not that guy and I think the Cowboys need to go as high as they can to get one that might be that guy and if not, go back again until they get him.

There is a chance the team has a new HC and we do not know what other changes that will bring about but maybe they do get Riley for the QB development but that would necessitate a new QB. This QB is not consistently as accurate as his last 3 QB's at OU.

Like I said, this is not about Prescott and whether he's deserving of a 35M contract, it's whether that should happen with this team and I say no for the reasons above. If this team is going to pay a QB top dollar, they need one that will not necessitate that being required of too many other players on offense. And we're looking at letting our most consistent player on the D walk to keep a QB and/or WR paid at the top tier level. This is an incomplete defense and will get worse without Jones.

OK, again, not about Prescott, this is about the idea of trying to get that future Tier 1 QB which would probably mean a couple of steps back to take some forward but steps I believe necessary to reach the destination.

I agree but the problem is..closing window of opportunity.

We have signed to OL..

Now Zeke..

plus numerous others like Jaylon,etc. that are closing the door on winning.

For 4 years now..

the Dynamic Duo of Zeke and Dak have delivered nothing.

Ditto our OL.

Until this season ends..its impossible to know any answers.

 

[Diehardblues]

No, because NFL defenses will eventually catch up.

But I do think it is smart to invest in a system. For instance, a smart system and plenty of skill/speed that gets the ball out quickly means you really don't need to make heavy investments in the OL.

Wasn’t that Jerry’s philosophy with Romo? He was so mobile extending plays didn’t need a great OL.

Still funny as hell Jerry even said that. Lol

 

[Future]

Wasn’t that Jerry’s philosophy with Romo? He was so mobile extending plays didn’t need a great OL.

Still funny as hell Jerry even said that. Lol

Lol I don't remember that, but I'd believe he said it. Jerruh started drafting OL with Romo still at the helm though. That 2016 OL was there with Tony.

But I don't mean that you necessarily need runner at QB who can excuse a poor OL, but that the ball always moves faster than any player when it's thrown. If you get it out consistently in 2.5 seconds, you don't need 5 All Stars.

The Patriots, Saints and any team with Peyton Manning have killed teams by doing that. We've even seen it with Eli and the Giants over and over and over again.

 

[Future]

At a miniumum, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Brees, Jackson, Brady. When you factor in all the young QB's that have taken over for established vets the last couple years, the threshold isn't that high to be top 10.

No, the threshold for 10 isn't that high. It's why I said 5.

Brady, Brees, and Rodgers are not better than Dak right now.

 

[Jake]

I agree but the problem is..closing window of opportunity.

We have signed to OL..

Now Zeke..

plus numerous others like Jaylon,etc. that are closing the door on winning.

For 4 years now..

the Dynamic Duo of Zeke and Dak have delivered nothing.

Ditto our OL.

Until this season ends..its impossible to know any answers.

Meanwhile, we're dead last in multiple special teams categories and dead last in interceptions - we've picked off 4 in 12 games.

Expecting offense to just overcome everything else hasn't worked, and won't work.

 

[Diehardblues]

Lol I don't remember that, but I'd believe he said it. Jerruh started drafting OL with Romo still at the helm though. That 2016 OL was there with Tony.

But I don't mean that you necessarily need runner at QB who can excuse a poor OL, but that the ball always moves faster than any player when it's thrown. If you get it out consistently in 2.5 seconds, you don't need 5 All Stars.

The Patriots, Saints and any team with Peyton Manning have killed teams by doing that. We've even seen it with Eli and the Giants over and over and over again.

When Jason took over in 2011 he influenced Jerry to begin drafting OL higher in draft to protect Romo.

 

[mattjames2010]

No, the threshold for 10 isn't that high. It's why I said 5.

Brady, Brees, and Rodgers are not better than Dak right now.

LOL

 

[Diehardblues]

Meanwhile, we're dead last in multiple special teams categories and dead last in interceptions - we've picked off 4 in 12 games.

Expecting offense to just overcome everything else hasn't worked, and won't work.

It alone won’t be enough to reach our ultimate goals. But it can be used to help mask our other weaknesses.

 

[McKDaddy]

Brady, Brees, and Rodgers are not better than Dak right now.

They may not be performing at quite the level they have in the past but overall i know they can still make the plays they need to make & I trust them to get it done (if it can be done). So, for me they are but i can understand why it could be argued differently.

 

[Redball Express]

Meanwhile, we're dead last in multiple special teams categories and dead last in interceptions - we've picked off 4 in 12 games.

Expecting offense to just overcome everything else hasn't worked, and won't work.

Add STs to your list.

Groan.

 

[Future]

When Jason took over in 2011 he influenced Jerry to begin drafting OL higher in draft to protect Romo.

He convinced Jerry to do it because he doesn't have a scheme that works without an elite OL.

The Frederick selection was also as much about the fact that the entire 2013 draft was pretty bad.

 

[jnday]

Getting the next great QB doesn't always turn out that way.

Could you imagine trading up to get Mariota or Winston or Trubisky or Carr for example?

I see a lot of fans that say that finding a new QB will hard to do. It is based on the fear of the unknown. The team has been playing scared, but there is no reason why the fans should fear dumping Dak and drafting a new QB. Sure it is a roll of the dice, but it is a roll that they shouldn’t fear taking. Some times you have to make aggressive moves to improve the team.

 

[mattjames2010]

I see a lot of fans that say that finding a new QB will hard to do. It is based on the fear of the unknown. The team has been playing scared, but there is no reason why the fans should fear dumping Dak and drafting a new QB. Sure it is a roll of the dice, but it is a roll that they shouldn’t fear taking. Some times you have to make aggressive moves to improve the team.

It's a loser mentality

Ravens just went from Flacco to Jackson
Chiefs went from Smith to Mahomes

Both teams didn't settle with "okay", they knew they needed to upgrade to for the long term. And Dak isn't going to have some magical post-season like Flacco either, so there is even less of a reason to stick around with mediocrity.