Any of you go through a divorce?

[CouchCoach]

One thing for sure, divorce brings scars, even though they're well hidden and covered, they're there still the same. Both parties failed at something for the other or made that all time grand mistake of mistaking infatuation or lust for love.

I fell for my wife the first time I ever saw her and didn't even speak to her for a year and that was only an introduction because I knew her date. To this day, I cannot explain how I knew she was the one but I will admit it was a lot more infatuation than love. If I am honest with myself, I wasn't really in love with her when we married. She was beautiful, a real head turner, and popular and I was afraid of losing her if I didn't marry her. We really married for the wrong reasons and I was very immature, even for a 20 year old. We had two sons and she would gladly volunteer that she raised 3 boys but she did and just like a good mother, she had patience waiting for her oldest to grow up.

And then it happened, I realized I was in love and not with the wrapper but what was inside. That corny line from Jerry Maguire, "you complete me", summarized it perfectly. In marriage, you grow together or you grow apart but you never stop growing. I had thought 'I married the perfect pretty popular girl', mission accomplished. But it had only begun.

There are two elements to people growing apart, the past and mental stability and both are a mountain to climb. I know so many cases of the past, something buried, that comes back into peoples lives and it begins to isolate them from the ones they love, the ones that could help the most. And I know first hand about the fight for mental stability because we are far more complicated creatures than even we imagine. And dealing with a complicated person can ruin a simple life. It can be a love obstacle course.

The other thing I have discovered about divorce, and this is only from personal experience, is that unless there is abuse, emotional and/or physical, involved, the person wanting it is usually the one to regret it. That act didn't solve the problem.

I know kevin and Vomit are going through really tough times, and probably some not comfortable with sharing, but I will offer some first hand advice that is a spin on an old saying that is not completely true. The saying is 'time heals all wounds". It does not. I lost my Dad, my two dogs of 15 years, my wife and my Mom all within 7.5 years and my wounds are not even scarred over. But what time does is allow you to do your own best at healing yourself. Time buys you more time.

I can say this, if you use the time wisely and sometimes that means doing absolutely nothing, it can truly be on your side. Or in my case, it began when I used my time to help a really close friend of mine deal with losing his wife to the same monster that took mine. I helped myself by helping him. Gentlemen, look around you for a person to invest your time that will reap dividends. Divorce, like so many other things in life, makes us feel that we've failed at something and we need a boost out of that and investing time in another can do just that.

 

[CouchCoach]

My ex once accused me of telling her to F off, right in the middle of a party. I quite simply don't speak to people that way. When I told her I didn't, she went around asking everyone at the party if they heard it. No one, of course, did, because I didn't. Just not something I would do. As you said, Friggin' lunatic.

As Rocky Balboa would say, "mentally irregular". The single biggest problem we have in this country and we don't know how to even begin to address it.

 

[Kevinicus]

Typically, when someone wants a divorce, it means they no longer love the other person. If that's the case, staying together is senseless for both parties.

If she still loves you, then the two of you need to seek counseling...from someone with a degree, who studied psychology.

That's if you look at love as the emotion instead of the action that it is.

Feelings go back and forth and up and down. Full love is a choice.

You take care of the action and the "feels" will follow (if they are not there already or have fallen away).


I agree about counseling. I think she needs to go, even separate from marriage counseling. I habe gone on my own, but can't really be very productive on my own.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Wow, you really do feel that people can't change, or come back from mistakes it looks like. Or that people can't (or shouldn't?) forgive. I'm sorry.

People decide all the time that they "want" things that are bad for them. That doesn't mean it's something they should do. "Want" is a terrible reason to opt out of a commitment (or as you describe it, a non-commitment).

Can't change? If they are committing adultery, they already did change.

People figure out all the time that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. That doesn't change the fact that they've already decided that what they do have isn't good enough for them to not commit adultery.

 

[Boom]

I got divorced about 12 years ago and it was the worst thing to ever happen to me. I was the one who left a loveless marriage, crushing the feelings of my 7 and 5 year old kids. I saw my parents in my marriage, and they waited until my little brother graduated HS to split up and they were miserable near the end. I always said I'd never let that happen to me.

I felt immense guilt for ending things, since I'd always been the rock to hold everything together. That guilt made me give her pretty much everything. I started over at 0 and have been paying large sums of child support (that's near ending). It's been difficult but we are all better for it now and our families are pretty good friends now.

If I had any advice to give to someone approaching divorce it would be:

1) Make sure you get your own lawyer and a good one, regardless of the cost. The decisions here will affect your financial life many years to follow. That 3K you are out now, will be a pittance to what will come.
2) Don't insult your ex around your kids. That relationship will continue, so no need to make it any worse than it needs to be.
3) Perform a self-inventory on what you did wrong or what you can improve next time. One of my pitfalls was communicating logically to someone who think emotionally. The two don't mix. Solving a problem doesn't always fix sad feelings.

 

[YosemiteSam]

The truth is, everyone is different, so that means every marriage is different. Happiness comes in many many different shapes and sizes. I personally know some swingers/swappers who are very happy. I would not be happy in this sort of relationship, but some are.

Swingers are a beast all of their own. They are usually sex addicts who enter into a relationship with an agreement that they both intend to swing. The only thing that is usually true in those relationships is they usually will only swing together. (though not all) They usually do not commit those acts by themselves without the other party present or at a minimum knowing.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I got divorced about 12 years ago and it was the worst thing to ever happen to me. I was the one who left a loveless marriage, crushing the feelings of my 7 and 5 year old kids. I saw my parents in my marriage, and they waited until my little brother graduated HS to split up and they were miserable near the end. I always said I'd never let that happen to me.

I felt immense guilt for ending things, since I'd always been the rock to hold everything together. That guilt made me give her pretty much everything. I started over at 0 and have been paying large sums of child support (that's near ending). It's been difficult but we are all better for it now and our families are pretty good friends now.

If I had any advice to give to someone approaching divorce it would be:

1) Make sure you get your own lawyer and a good one, regardless of the cost. The decisions here will affect your financial life many years to follow. That 3K you are out now, will be a pittance to what will come.
2) Don't insult your ex around your kids. That relationship will continue, so no need to make it any worse than it needs to be.
3) Perform a self-inventory on what you did wrong or what you can improve next time. One of my pitfalls was communicating logically to someone who think emotionally. The two don't mix. Solving a problem doesn't always fix sad feelings.

Beautiful post.

The one thing I will say. My friend whom I've known since I was like 12 is in a loveless marriage. He is miserable most of the time. He stays together because of his daughter and he felt he has to remain responsible. I agree about the responsibility.

While I would never advocate being selfish in these situations. I do believe you must also consider your own happiness in situations like this. If you are absolutely miserable. You must consider that too. (funny thing is many divorces happen due to adultery and the committer of that adultery wasn't even unhappy in the marriage, they did it for purely selfish reasons)

Anyhow, I've always been of the opinion that a miserable life is a life that isn't worth living. Now, I would never advocate suicide, but I would 100% support change to improve your life. You just need to take stock in your life. Decide what course of actions would best help you, then figure out how you can incorporate your responsibility into that plan without devastating those in your life. (and I mean devastating in the real physical sense, not just because someone will become an emotional when they find out)

The point I'm trying to make is everyone has a responsibility to take care of themselves too. You shouldn't live a miserable (I stress miserable) life just so you don't upset someone else.

 

[YosemiteSam]

My ex once accused me of telling her to F off, right in the middle of a party. I quite simply don't speak to people that way. When I told her I didn't, she went around asking everyone at the party if they heard it. No one, of course, did, because I didn't. Just not something I would do. As you said, Friggin' lunatic.

F off.

 

[Boom]

Beautiful post.

The one thing I will say. My friend whom I've known since I was like 12 is in a loveless marriage. He is miserable most of the time. He stays together because of his daughter and he felt he has to remain responsible. I agree about the responsibility.

While I would never advocate being selfish in these situations. I do believe you must also consider your own happiness in situations like this. If you are absolutely miserable. You must consider that too. (funny thing is many divorces happen due to adultery and the committer of that adultery wasn't even unhappy in the marriage, they did it for purely selfish reasons)

Anyhow, I've always been of the opinion that a miserable life is a life that isn't worth living. Now, I would never advocate suicide, but I would 100% support change to improve your life. You just need to take stock in your life. Decide what course of actions would best help you, then figure out how you can incorporate your responsibility into that plan without devastating those in your life. (and I mean devastating in the real physical sense, not just because someone will become an emotional when they find out)

The point I'm trying to make is everyone has a responsibility to take care of themselves too. You shouldn't live a miserable (I stress miserable) life just so you don't upset someone else.

I think our marriage had hit the point where we were "OK" with going through the motions, with fights from time to time. Upon reflection, it started going downhill for me when she used the word "divorce" to scare me during an argument. Of course I panicked at that. The next time, a little less. Eventually it didn't phase me, because I'd distanced myself.

The end started when we got into an argument on the way to a party and she tried to shock me with "Maybe we should separate". I agreed and her mouth dropped. A couple weeks later we tried again, with her putting forth a TON of effort to save us. But as much as I wanted to return emotionally, I noticed that I'd destroyed that part of me in an attempt at self-preservation years ago and never really realized it.

 

[Boom]

My situation has turned for the worse as my wife informed me earlier this week that she talked to an attorney and will likely file. She says she wants to do mediation and avoid fighting through lawyers. I'm in a position where she makes more than I do, so I could get something from her if I wanted. I am still trying to avoid it as I generally don't believe in divorce (though my first marriage ended that way, initiated by me, but from very unique circumstances). There really is no logical reason for us to get a divorce, either. The thought processes she has been using are definitely less than sound, but they are a pattern, as the same thing occurred in her first marriage. Definitely some emotional issues she has, but she doesn't want to do anything about it, and doesn't really care who it impacts. I'm not really all that concerned about myself emotionally. I worry about the kids (our 2 year old, and her 15 year old), and for her. She needs some help, and if she doesn't get it, the kids will suffer (already have really). She has the confused idea that once we're no longer together she won't have these issues anymore, even though they are clearly a deep seeded part of who she is, likely stemming from her childhood, and have clearly had an impact on her older daughter.

The financials would also be a mess, as splitting up income just makes things harder for everyone. I'd have to find a new place to stay, and one close to where we are now, which is not exactly a cheap area. All our savings, things for our kids' future, is likely to be wiped out pretty quick, simply from having multiple sets of expenses. And saving more will be all the more difficult.

So, I really don't see a benefit for anyone.

I have been making every effort I can to do my part in recognizing where I have gone wrong and can do better and amending that (though, most of her complaints were things I was doing, or not doing, because that's what I thought she wanted me to do), and working towards making our marriage strong again, but thus far, it's been a completely one sided effort. As someone of faith, I have been praying, and still believing that things will get better, however, we're definitely dangling by a string right now.

Your description of marriage sounds like a unit of work with some input and resulting output providing value. Most people don't get married because of logic, so logic is rarely considered when ending them. And the reasons may not be logically sound for ending it to you, but emotion can be a fickle mistress and completely sound in her opinion.

 

[kskboys]

As Rocky Balboa would say, "mentally irregular". The single biggest problem we have in this country and we don't know how to even begin to address it.

Social graces. That's how we used to address it. People were expected to act a certain way, and did so.

And then this politically correct crapp started. Under this pile of steaming, people were encouraged to do and say whatever they felt. And that has led to spewing and acting on whatever little numnum impulse hits them at the moment. Which means people are no longer being taught to control themselves. Which means those "mentally irregular" feelings are now being acted upon and spewed everywhere.

Terms such as "Impropriety" and "improper" and such have been replaced w/ this overwhelming idea that a person needs to do and say whatever their desires are. Problem is, that leads to rudeness and lack of empathy, not to mention widespread apathy as this line of thinking leads to extreme obsession w/ self.

 

[kskboys]

Your description of marriage sounds like a unit of work with some input and resulting output providing value. Most people don't get married because of logic, so logic is rarely considered when ending them. And the reasons may not be logically sound for ending it to you, but emotion can be a fickle mistress and completely sound in her opinion.

Most people get married because they're in heat.

 

[CouchCoach]

You are both right.

The truth is, everyone is different, so that means every marriage is different. Happiness comes in many many different shapes and sizes. I personally know some swingers/swappers who are very happy. I would not be happy in this sort of relationship, but some are.

I also know some couples who fight all the time, some who don't talk to each other, some who rarely see each other. What makes people happy can be just so different.

So true and some people do not think they are deserving of happiness so the status quo works.

I've known people in open marriages and never got that and one time my wife and I were recruited into a swingers club and this woman was so matter of fact about it. Her premise was it's just sex, not love, and neither of them were bent toward monogamy but she made it a point that they never cheated on each other behind their back. They probably trusted each other more than most married couples. It was this convoluted reasoning but it actually made sense for them.

My worst possible nightmare would be to see my wife with another man. Only surpassed by the reverse of that because she LOVED the Bobbitt story and nicknamed our electric knife "Lorena". Got to where I hated holiday dinners when she would greet "Lorena" like a long lost friend.....loudly.

Sam is right, people who give into adultery have already made their decision about the importance of their word in the arrangement. We had a friend who caught her husband with another woman and I mean caught. We had only been married a couple of years and I had always considered the anger side of it, not the hurt. But to see the pain she was in really hit me hard.

I traveled a lot the first 15 years of marriage and the opportunity and temptation was always present but I'd think about the look on our friend's face would come to me. Was a little physical pleasure worth seeing that on my wife's face? The one person that believed in me more than anyone.

I knew a ton of guys that ran around on the road and they'd try to get me to go along but when they'd scored, I'd head out and sometimes it was hard because I would think of what I was missing. Then one night, a guy I worked with and a known womanizer asked me why didn't I partake when the taking was so easy. I asked him if he'd ever just laid there and looked at his wife while she was sleeping and did he feel any pangs of guilt. He said no and he didn't. I told him well, that's not me. I do not handle guilt well. Then he capped it off with how do you know she's not cheating on you? I answered that she's not the type but if I cheated on her, she could easily become that type in my mind.

 

[Kevinicus]

Can't change? If they are committing adultery, they already did change.

People figure out all the time that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. That doesn't change the fact that they've already decided that what they do have isn't good enough for them to not commit adultery.

People make mistakes. People learn from mistakes. People forgive the mistakes of others. I won't suggest that anyone who cheats will learn and grow and avoid doing it in the future, or that someone with someone who cheats should remain with that person (I would suggest they forgive them, even if they choose to leave), but I don't like blanket suggestions that any marriage that suffers from infidelity should end and can't (or shouldn't) be salvaged. A great marriage could have dealt with infidelity at some point, and a terrible marriage can have no issue with it at all.

That said, infidelity is one of the few areas that I view as a reasonable reason to end a marriage. It is in most cases (non-open marriages) a huge violation of trust and can be extremely difficult to overcome. It's not impossible though, and in situations where the guilty party has taken the responsibility, has remorse for their actions, and truly wants to be better, than I hope it can be.

 

[CouchCoach]

Most people get married because they're in heat.

And the less experience you've had the hotter the heat. I didn't have much experience and my bride had none except me, we didn't really even know what we were looking for in a mate but just got lucky. At least I did, she took on a project. Her Mom had never told her that there was another side to the "life of the party".

My older son didn't get married until he was 37 and had a lot more life experience than I did when I got married at 20. He had already encountered the bat **** crazy women and knew what he was not looking for, in fact he wasn't even looking to get married. When I say "I got lucky" I don't mean that in the usual connotation. I am not much of a fate salesman but in that case, I have no other explanation.

I cannot count the times my friends have remarked that if they'd had a wife like mine, they would still be married. I am not aware of any of my wife's friends saying that to her.

 

[CouchCoach]

People make mistakes. People learn from mistakes. People forgive the mistakes of others. I won't suggest that anyone who cheats will learn and grow and avoid doing it in the future, or that someone with someone who cheats should remain with that person (I would suggest they forgive them, even if they choose to leave), but I don't like blanket suggestions that any marriage that suffers from infidelity should end and can't (or shouldn't) be salvaged. A great marriage could have dealt with infidelity at some point, and a terrible marriage can have no issue with it at all.

That said, infidelity is one of the few areas that I view as a reasonable reason to end a marriage. It is in most cases (non-open marriages) a huge violation of trust and can be extremely difficult to overcome. It's not impossible though, and in situations where the guilty party has taken the responsibility, has remorse for their actions, and truly wants to be better, than I hope it can be.

It's not a one size fits all world, especially in relationships.

My sister-in-law was in a physically abusive marriage with a mean drunk and she cheated on him and I got it. She was all ready to file for divorce and tired of giving him second chances and the need wasn't for sex. She needed to feel loved, cared for and I understood that and her love had died inside for the man that would hurt her.

Most humans have need for connection to others and there are a variety of reasons why someone might stray and that doesn't make them a bad person or not even a weak person. My favorite excuse that I've never let a friend off on is "I had too much to drink and one thing led to another" and I've heard that so many times. My response has always been "No, having too much to drink was your intent to give yourself permission and I am not here to absolve you of guilt". I always made it a point to tell them how much I cared for them but don't try to sell me excuses made in advance. I don't know why but I was the guy my friends felt OK confessing to and I wasn't a softie.

 

[Vomit]

Still waiting for her to capitulate to my 60/40 split. Getting less optimistic.

 

[Vomit]

Swingers are a beast all of their own. They are usually sex addicts who enter into a relationship with an agreement that they both intend to swing. The only thing that is usually true in those relationships is they usually will only swing together. (though not all) They usually do not commit those acts by themselves without the other party present or at a minimum knowing.

Just had married (25 years) friends get divorced. In a swinging relationship. I don’t understand the idea of being married & “swinging”. Seems mutually exclusive.

 

[Rockport]

Women are crazy and men are stupid as GC always said.

 

[Crazed Liotta Eyes]

My ex once accused me of telling her to F off, right in the middle of a party. I quite simply don't speak to people that way. When I told her I didn't, she went around asking everyone at the party if they heard it. No one, of course, did, because I didn't. Just not something I would do. As you said, Friggin' lunatic.

Let's just say...I understand. <looks sideways>...