CZ POLL What do you think the Cowboys should offer Dak? * POLL CLOSED *

csirl · Jun 1, 2020

People forget that anything that was discussed or said before MM was appointed is now null and void.

Dak was Garrett's QB and Garrett was the internal voice advocating an extension. I've no doubt that if Garrett had been extended, the Dak deal would be done by now

Everything is changed now. Doesnt seem to be any big push by the team to extend. Why would MM weld the success or failure of his 5 year tenure in Dallas to a QB of someone elses chosing who has never played in his scheme? Better to play out the 2020 season and see how it works out.

OmerV · Jun 1, 2020

ABQCOWBOY said:
According to who?

According to what Goff and Wentz got for extending their contracts for 4 years.

ABQCOWBOY · Jun 1, 2020

OmerV said:
According to what Goff and Wentz got for extending their contracts for 4 years.

According to Goff and Wentz, the numbers being reported are reflective and some would make the point that they are actually superior. Explain your reasoning please.

OmerV · Jun 1, 2020

ABQCOWBOY said:
According to Goff and Wentz, the numbers being reported are reflective and some would make the point that they are actually superior. Explain your reasoning please.

According to Goff and Wentz? Did we talk to them about this?

All I'm saying is the numbers being talked about with Dak, if true, are similar to what Wentz and Goff got for giving the team an additional 4 years, but they would not be similar if giving the team an additional 5 years. Specifically I'm talking about the guaranteed amount. The annual salary would be similar at either 4 or 5 years, but the team always has an out, so the entire annual salary over the term of the contract is not guaranteed, so the amount that is guaranteed matters. It's not unreasonable that a player might think in return for an additional year of team control the guaranteed amount should be more.

Williamsboys · Jun 1, 2020

I think the first few years Jerry and Stephen Jones said about their 4th round find.."I think we can win it all with HIM as our quarterback"
Then when the amount of money was being discussed they said to themselves... "Can we really win it all with HIM as our quarterback??"

ABQCOWBOY · Jun 1, 2020

OmerV said:
According to Goff and Wentz? Did we talk to them about this?

All I'm saying is the numbers being talked about with Dak, if true, are similar to what Wentz and Goff got for giving the team an additional 4 years, but they would not be similar if giving the team an additional 5 years. Specifically I'm talking about the guaranteed amount. The annual salary would be similar at either 4 or 5 years, but the team always has an out, so the entire annual salary over the term of the contract is not guaranteed, so the amount that is guaranteed matters. It's not unreasonable that a player might think in return for an additional year of team control the guaranteed amount should be more.

The exact question I was about to ask, did you talk to them about this or what? The answer to that question is clearly no so how then do you suggest that it's Goff or Wentz? The real answer here is the agent and I know that. If you refuse to accept that simple truth, then that's your choice but it's not Goff or Wentz, it's the agent and that's not how it should work.

I don't accept the whole premise of what you describe here. The offer is entirely reasonable IMO. Just because you say it is not, does not change that opinion. It only makes you Pro Dak. That's fine but it's not what I ascribe to.

MarcusRock · Jun 1, 2020

OmerV said:
According to Goff and Wentz? Did we talk to them about this?

All I'm saying is the numbers being talked about with Dak, if true, are similar to what Wentz and Goff got for giving the team an additional 4 years, but they would not be similar if giving the team an additional 5 years. Specifically I'm talking about the guaranteed amount. The annual salary would be similar at either 4 or 5 years, but the team always has an out, so the entire annual salary over the term of the contract is not guaranteed, so the amount that is guaranteed matters. It's not unreasonable that a player might think in return for an additional year of team control the guaranteed amount should be more.

Are you talking about these numbers that I continuously post that no one responds to? Because only a willful dolt with an ax to grind would even think that these are superior numbers for Dak on 5 years given what was doled out for 4 years for these other players.

Wilson: 4 years, $140M ($107M guaranteed)
Goff: 4 years, $134M ($110M guaranteed)
Wentz: 4 years, $128M ($108M guaranteed)
Dak: 5 years, $175M ($105M guaranteed) - rumored and $175M based on $35M yearly average

OmerV · Jun 1, 2020

ABQCOWBOY said:
The exact question I was about to ask, did you talk to them about this or what? The answer to that question is clearly no so how then do you suggest that it's Goff or Wentz? The real answer here is the agent and I know that. If you refuse to accept that simple truth, then that's your choice but it's not Goff or Wentz, it's the agent and that's not how it should work.

I don't accept the whole premise of what you describe here. The offer is entirely reasonable IMO. Just because you say it is not, does not change that opinion. It only makes you Pro Dak. That's fine but it's not what I ascribe to.

Info about Wentz and Goff's deals are known, so it doesn't take talking to them directly. We know the term, we know the signing bonus, we know the guaranteed amount. We will know those things with Dak too whenever he signs.

You grilling me it interesting though because a few posts back you indicated yourself what the market is, and now you are acting as if there is no way to know the market. How is it that you can say you know what the market is and tell someone else they can't know? Realistically, I was going off Wentz and Goff's contract extension. If you weren't going off that, what was your basis for saying what the market is?

OmerV · Jun 1, 2020

MarcusRock said:
Are you talking about these numbers that I continuously post that no one responds to? Because only a willful dolt with an ax to grind would even think that these are superior numbers for Dak on 5 years given what was doled out for 4 years for these other players.

Wilson: 4 years, $140M ($107M guaranteed)
Goff: 4 years, $134M ($110M guaranteed)
Wentz: 4 years, $128M ($108M guaranteed)
Dak: 5 years, $175M ($105M guaranteed) - rumored and $175M based on $35M yearly average

There was a rumor yesterday that the Cowboys were increasing the guaranteed amount to $110 million, so, if true, that would put him at the same guaranteed amount as Goff, but it would be for 5 additional years of team control of the player instead of the 4 that Goff signed for.

ABQCOWBOY · Jun 1, 2020

OmerV said:
Info about Wentz and Goff's deals are known, so it doesn't take talking to them directly. We know the term, we know the signing bonus, we know the guaranteed amount. We will know those things with Dak too whenever he signs.

You grilling me it interesting though because a few posts back you indicated yourself what the market is, and now you are acting as if there is no way to know the market. How is it that you can say you know what the market is and tell someone else they can't know? Realistically, I was going off Wentz and Goff's contract extension. If you weren't going off that, what was your basis for saying what the market is?

If you claim that they are the catalyst, then I'm in disargement with you. I'm not grilling you about anything. I'm simply pointing out that your statement is inaccurate. Be more specific with the posts you refer to. I'm happy to go back and review those. But what I'm sure I will find is you referencing Wentz and Goff and not me initially. I'm not acting as if there is no way, I'm saying that you, nor I are in a position to do that. I'm asking you to show me, if I'm wrong and I haven't seen that yet.

In truth, if you go back, you will see that what I did there was say that it's the agents who are coming up with the numbers we are referring to as "Market Value" and not anybody else. Go on ahead back and check it out. You'll find that this is accurate.

Now if you don't believe that and feel like I'm mistaken, then I'm happy to oblige you and you show me what you mean and I will discuss it further. But I stand by what I say there. I feel like that's fare.

MarcusRock · Jun 1, 2020

OmerV said:
There was a rumor yesterday that the Cowboys were increasing the guaranteed amount to $110 million, so, if true, that would put him at the same guaranteed amount as Goff, but it would be for 5 additional years of team control of the player instead of the 4 that Goff signed for.

Right, which is clearly still not a good comparative deal for Dak to sign unless you just want him to get less and don't care about fairness in comparison. When that agent's take article came out, he looked at all the cash flows, guaranteed at signing, etc. and stated that a comparative deal for 5 years might come close to 5 years / $190M with $130M in guarantees. Don't think $38M will happen but any fair-minded, non-agenda person would know that the same guarantee for Goff in 4 years is not equal on a 5-year deal.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...yvT7iVqeIjgNSJ4QnRrSeBaK1JRFOaFUwWZvKNfdLZZEI

kskboys · Jun 1, 2020

Interesting stuff.

75 people think he should get 30 mil plus
96 people think he should get under 30 mil

Take that as you will, I'm not cherry picking to make any point, just thinking about how much damage has been done to Dak's image due to this holdout for huge money.

OmerV · Jun 1, 2020

ABQCOWBOY said:
If you claim that they are the catalyst, then I'm in disargement with you. I'm not grilling you about anything. I'm simply pointing out that your statement is inaccurate. Be more specific with the posts you refer to. I'm happy to go back and review those. But what I'm sure I will find is you referencing Wentz and Goff and not me initially. I'm not acting as if there is no way, I'm saying that you, nor I are in a position to do that. I'm asking you to show me, if I'm wrong and I haven't seen that yet.

In truth, if you go back, you will see that what I did there was say that it's the agents who are coming up with the numbers we are referring to as "Market Value" and not anybody else. Go on ahead back and check it out. You'll find that this is accurate.

Now if you don't believe that and feel like I'm mistaken, then I'm happy to oblige you and you show me what you mean and I will discuss it further. But I stand by what I say there. I feel like that's fare.

How is your statement about market value accurate? At least looking at the Goff and Wentz extensions is a foundation, what's yours? If you want me to be more specific about the post I was referring to, in post #137 in this thread you said $110 million guaranteed is the market. But the little detail is that is the range that has been agreed ton 4 year deals, not for 5 year deals.

What is it that you want to be shown? If you are talking about the terms of Goff and Wentz deals, those things have been widely reported, although admittedly I'm not sure if it was a direct disclosure by the team or Goff or just what was "reported". S[potract and other sites have the info as well, for whatever that's worth. But, of course, you are judging that Dak has been offered a fair deal based on what has been "reported", so maybe neither of us really knows and the media doesn't have accurate info.

ABQCOWBOY · Jun 1, 2020

OmerV said:
How is your statement about market value accurate? At least looking at the Goff and Wentz extensions is a foundation, what's yours? If you want me to be more specific about the post I was referring to, in post #137 in this thread you said $110 million guaranteed is the market. But the little detail is that is the range that has been agreed ton 4 year deals, not for 5 year deals.

What is it that you want to be shown? If you are talking about the terms of Goff and Wentz deals, those things have been widely reported, although admittedly I'm not sure if it was a direct disclosure by the team or Goff or just what was "reported". S[potract and other sites have the info as well, for whatever that's worth. But, of course, you are judging that Dak has been offered a fair deal based on what has been "reported", so maybe neither of us really knows and the media doesn't have accurate info.

My Foundation? The reported 35 AAV or greater, which is the highest or tied with Wilson as the highest in the NFL. The rumored 110 or higher fully guaranteed money, which is the highest in the NFL. How else would you do it?

You say 4 year deals but that's not true. I say those were 6 year deals.

WillieBeamen · Jun 1, 2020

#dontpaydak

@Frozen700

OmerV · Jun 1, 2020

ABQCOWBOY said:
My Foundation? The reported 35 AAV or greater, which is the highest or tied with Wilson as the highest in the NFL. The rumored 110 or higher fully guaranteed money, which is the highest in the NFL. How else would you do it?

You say 4 year deals but that's not true. I say those were 6 year deals.

So, you are going off what's "reported" just like I am, but the problem is you are talking only dollars and not term. Term is an issue, and while $110 million may be at the highest, it does matter if that amount buys a 4 or 5 year deal.

By the way, Goff is also reported to have a $110 million guarantee, so the $110 million would be tied with Goff, according to "reports".

zerofill · Jun 1, 2020

Actually voted for:

Let Dak play on Franchise Tag offer; start Dalton if he holds out

But, technically... still think Dalton would do just fine with this roster.

Frankly, any team discussions etc... that Dak isn't in on, hurts him. Because he needs
to be acclimated to this coaching staff, their philosophy, their playbook... Dak isn't some
off the cuff, elite passer, or able to do crazy things with his arm that Mahomes can.

At this point, doesn't matter to me if they keep him or release him, or if he holds out (which I know
he won't hold out.) There is no way Dak is taking the chance that Dalton lights it up with this offense...
Just no way in hell, he is taking that risk. Because he could find himself in the same situation
Romo found himself in, in 2016.

But, anyone that wants to pay Dak $35mil a year, I think hates the Cowboys lol.
Those 31 votes were definitely Eagles, Giants, Commanders fans...... (I hope).

ABQCOWBOY · Jun 1, 2020

OmerV said:
So, you are going off what's "reported" just like I am, but the problem is you are talking only dollars and not term. Term is an issue, and while $110 million may be at the highest, it does matter if that amount buys a 4 or 5 year deal.

By the way, Goff is also reported to have a $110 million guarantee, so the $110 million would be tied with Goff, according to "reports".

Of course, but I have never disputed that. No, Goff is Guaranteed but not Fully Guaranteed which is different. Goff's Fully Guaranteed number is actually 57 and change.

Either way you slice this, the reported offer, on the table, is at the very top of the NFL. AAV covers the entirety of the contract, as far as average so nobody is getting more then what's offered. The next highest Fully Guaranteed is 94 mil and that's Matty Ice.

That's the top of the NFL and Dak is not the best QB in the League so what else can you expect from Jerry? It's as if people want to see him double down on the best offer in the league. How does that even make sense?

But you know what, this was not the discussion. The discussion was about who sets Market Price? What have we learned here? Jerry has already offered more then I ever would have, according to reports so yeah, I've never ever lied about that. But it makes no sense to say that he hasn't received market value. But now, that's market value, even though it clearly is as it actually sets the market.

Now, it's gotta be more then that. It has to be 4 years and that, well, that kinda screws the pouch for everything. You can't have those kinds of numbers and yet, only have a 4 year deal. Something has to give right there. So if you want to set the market, then understand that it's a 5 year deal. If you don't, then understand that it's a lessor deal and move on with it. But you can't tell me that this is not Market because that's just not true.

Frozen700 · Jun 1, 2020

WillieBeamen said:
#dontpaydak

@Frozen700

My boi Willie knows the deal!

#DontpayDak

OmerV · Jun 1, 2020

ABQCOWBOY said:
Of course, but I have never disputed that. No, Goff is Guaranteed but not Fully Guaranteed which is different. Goff's Fully Guaranteed number is actually 57 and change.

Either way you slice this, the reported offer, on the table, is at the very top of the NFL. AAV covers the entirety of the contract, as far as average so nobody is getting more then what's offered. The next highest Fully Guaranteed is 94 mil and that's Matty Ice.

That's the top of the NFL and Dak is not the best QB in the League so what else can you expect from Jerry? It's as if people want to see him double down on the best offer in the league. How does that even make sense?

But you know what, this was not the discussion. The discussion was about who sets Market Price? What have we learned here? Jerry has already offered more then I ever would have, according to reports so yeah, I've never ever lied about that. But it makes no sense to say that he hasn't received market value. But now, that's market value, even though it clearly is as it actually sets the market.

Now, it's gotta be more then that. It has to be 4 years and that, well, that kinda screws the pouch for everything. You can't have those kinds of numbers and yet, only have a 4 year deal. Something has to give right there. So if you want to set the market, then understand that it's a 5 year deal. If you don't, then understand that it's a lessor deal and move on with it. But you can't tell me that this is not Market because that's just not true.

What is "fully guaranteed" with Dak's offer, assuming the reports are even accurate? What I saw that was reported was a "guaranteed" amount, rather than a "fully guaranteed" amount, so how do we know the "fully guaranteed" amount is any more than Goff's?

IF the $110 million is accurate, and IF it is fully guaranteed, I would agree that even at 5 years it is a fair deal. But IF the fully guaranteed portion is more in the range of what Goff got, then I would say it is not because of the extra year the Cowboys are asking for.

CZ POLL What do you think the Cowboys should offer Dak? *** POLL CLOSED ***

What do you think the Cowboys should offer Dak?

Offer Dak $35+ million per year contract

Offer Dak $30-$34 million per year contract

Offer Dak $25-$29 million per year contract

Let Dak play on Franchise Tag offer; start Dalton if he holds out

Release Dak and Start Dalton

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CZ POLL What do you think the Cowboys should offer Dak? * POLL CLOSED *