Maybe Nolan isnt the problem

Hennessy_King said:

If they stuck wit rod for 6 years. Nolan will be here next year

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I’ll agree to disagree with you on that.

Hennessy_King said:

These players aren't making scheme mistakes they are making basic mistakes. In what scheme does the most outside DE not play contain and go inside. In what defense do they not teach gap assignments. In what defense do corners not know how to play cover 3? I saw nolan's record. And I also saw the defensive talent on those teams. Players need to learn the system yes it was under not normal circumstances but these are professionals getting paid millions. figure it out. My son in HS had to learn 2 new positions during covid lol. I aint tryin to hear these babies cry.

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Please tell me you have first hand knowledge and have seen the Cowboys defensive playbook that you know as facts what every defensive player's responsibility is for Nolan's scheme and the very many different alignments for that scheme. There has been a couple of announcers that have said the same basic things that to often it looks like the players on defense are having to figure out what their responsibilities are in the alignment called for that play and not just reacting. This comes from installing a very complicated convoluted defense without having ANY off seasons programs or preseason games to work any of it out. There have been analysts that have said that was not a smartest thing to do this year and should have gone with a more basic defense that fits the players instead of making players fit that complicated convoluted defense.

You high school example is poor at best. One year in high school I ended up playing THREE different positions because of some injuries but the defense was the same defense we ran the year before and then year before that and the 5 years before that so it wasn't like I had to learn new positions in an entirely new and different defense with many many many different alignments with different responsibilities in each like the Cowboys defense is having to do.
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Dre11 said:

so who's fault is this. this is middle school stuff here simple coverage

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In some situations, yes, the player screws up. They can be lazy. They can make mistakes. They can not care. No one on this board has ever suggested otherwise. But on the flipside, coaches influence the outcomes of games. Yes, coaches can have bad schemes. Yes, coaches can just be bad at their jobs. Yes players can fail due to coaching.

It's downright lunacy to suggest coaches essentially don't matter.

gjkoeppen said:

Please tell me you have first hand knowledge and have seen the Cowboys defensive playbook that you know as facts what every defensive player's responsibility is for Nolan's scheme and the very many different alignments for that scheme. There has been a couple of announcers that have said the same basic things that to often it looks like the players on defense are having to figure out what their responsibilities are in the alignment called for that play and not just reacting. This comes from installing a very complicated convoluted defense without having ANY off seasons programs or preseason games to work any of it out. There have been analysts that have said that was not a smartest thing to do this year and should have gone with a more basic defense that fits the players instead of making players fit that complicated convoluted defense.

You high school example is poor at best. One year in high school I ended up playing THREE different positions because of some injuries but the defense was the same defense we ran the year before and then year before that and the 5 years before that so it wasn't like I had to learn new positions in an entirely new and different defense with many many many different alignments with different responsibilities in each like the Cowboys defense is having to do.
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My son is playing varsity as a freshman and is learning a whole new defense at a different position. I dont need to see the playbook. I can tell who has outside contain and i can tell who screws up a gap. These are basic fundamentals

Haimerej said:

I'm as sympathetic as anyone to the player talent reason behind poor play. Think about all the guys who started for DAL throughout the years-

Across the DL- Hayden, Selvie, Mincey, T. Crawford, T. McClain, J. Crawford, Mayowa, Melton

Secondary- Church, Scandrick, Claiborne, Carr, Heath, JJ Wilcox, Sterling Moore, Anthony Henry

LBs- Kyle Wilbur, Durant, Ernie Sims, Carter

The bolded guys were starting for the playoff team in 2014, the year after the worst defense in Cowboys history. But looking at all that, "talent," we never saw anything this bad.

The worst defense in franchise history under Kiffin, making the transition to the 4-3, gave up over 30 points 7 times in 16 games. This one has done it 5 games in a row, and they've only played 6.

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Please dont bring up 2014 when we played keep away with an 1800 yard rusher. Shoot the reason they drafted zeke was for that same reason so they could mask the garbage bumanelli defense

Mike Nolan is also not the solution, this man has a rep of making defenses worse.

Hennessy_King said:

Please dont bring up 2014 when we played keep away with an 1800 yard rusher. Shoot the reason they drafted zeke was for that same reason so they could mask the garbage bumanelli defense

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I'm not touting those defenses at all. I'm saying they weren't this bad. At least they were trying to protect them back then instead of thinking an up tempo offense goes well with a horrible defense. They actually had a couple games in 2013 holding teams to 10 points or fewer. Take away 2013 and what compares with Nolan's run in ATL?

gjkoeppen said:

Right now I don't care about any other team. I just want you to tell me who Jones as the owner of the Cowboys is accountable to? What person real of perceived by you is Jones accountable to? Just what person does Jones have to report to that he has to be accountable to? Just repeating that Jones has to be accountable has not answered that question that I've asked repeatedly.
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I have answered- the GM is accountable to the owner except in Dallas. Any other owner would have fired GM Jerry a long time ago. And the owner is accountable to the fans if fans would ever stop drinking his koolaide

stasheroo said:

I’ll agree to disagree with you on that.

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i agree with you. Jerry did his patient act with his favorite step-son/coach. If this isn’t working, he will pick someone’s head to roll

Fastpitch Dad said:

Cannot stand the Harbaugh boys, but I do think they are the kind of coach needed here.

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Neither would be able to fix Garrett's mess in the first season either. Lol.... I'll even go as far as Belicheat.

Sydla said:

In some situations, yes, the player screws up. They can be lazy. They can make mistakes. They can not care. No one on this board has ever suggested otherwise. But on the flipside, coaches influence the outcomes of games. Yes, coaches can have bad schemes. Yes, coaches can just be bad at their jobs. Yes players can fail due to coaching.

It's downright lunacy to suggest coaches essentially don't matter.

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coaches don't play, schemes don't work unless players execute them, as I've said many times, the tapes don't lie, coaching have it's place, but winning and losing is in the hands of players.

Softest player is the guy the defense is designed to keep free to make the tackles: Jaylon.

LVE and Thomas should be starting.

Dre11 said:

coaches don't play, schemes don't work unless players execute them, as I've said many times, the tapes don't lie, coaching have it's place, but winning and losing is in the hands of players.

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As a coach, you see you have guys who can't 2-gap consistently. You're giving up nearly 200 yards rushing a game. Do you adjust or just keep going, hoping they get it?

Haimerej said:

As a coach, you see you have guys who can't 2-gap consistently. You're giving up nearly 200 yards rushing a game. Do you adjust or just keep going, hoping they get it?

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the problem here is there's no guarantee that all players can't 2 gap, Hell they had problem playing 1 gap, if a player isn't good he just isn't good or consistently make mistakes no matter the scheme. you find smart players that can learn any scheme.

Haimerej said:

As a coach, you see you have guys who can't 2-gap consistently. You're giving up nearly 200 yards rushing a game. Do you adjust or just keep going, hoping they get it?

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there's been complaints about every defensive coordinator since Dave, Even Zimmer is getting hard with criticism.

Dre11 said:

the problem here is there's no guarantee that all players can't 2 gap, Hell they had problem playing 1 gap, if a player isn't good he just isn't good or consistently make mistakes no matter the scheme. you find smart players that can learn any scheme.

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I agree. But why not at least take a step towards giving them an easier assignment to minimize the damage? Remember all that player over scheme nonsense they said in the offseason? Unless they're not playing to win, that doesn't make sense to me. Six weeks in these guys are pretty much what they are.

Dre11 said:

there's been complaints about every defensive coordinator since Dave, Even Zimmer is getting hard with criticism.

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Of course. This fanbase has crazy expectations. I generally try to be fair, but this defense is indefensible. The Giants did nothing until they played DAL. Bad players can be managed to less than 30 ppg. I remember 2013 and how bad they looked switching systems. It wasn't this bad.

stasheroo said:

Are you really suggesting that Nolan ‘hasn’t had talent’ since 2004?

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His last decent D was ATL in 2012 when he had John Abraham and some other talented guys the whole season. The next season, when Abraham was gone and many of the previous year’s starters were hurt, they plummeted.

Haimerej said:

I agree. But why not at least take a step towards giving them an easier assignment to minimize the damage? Remember all that player over scheme nonsense they said in the offseason? Unless they're not playing to win, that doesn't make sense to me. Six weeks in these guys are pretty much what they are.

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they actually did since week 2, they still make mistakes, they make mistakes with simple coverages you learn in middle school football

Maybe he's not the problem, but he's also likely not the solution.