Twitter: Great play by Wilson

OmerV · Jun 17, 2021

ninja said:
Not true. When Jaylon covers he has both hands up like a hostage running out of a building (thank you to whoever posted that classic first at this site) and with his back turned to the QB. That was Jaylon in full attack mode. Beast mode - dare I say.

I assume this post was in jest .....

But if not, if not, go back and watch the clip all the way through. That was a TE (Dallas Goedart) - and he was an eligible receiver. Immediately after Goedart pushed Smith he turned to Wentz to look for a throw. Accordingly, Goedart pushed off illegally because Wentz still had the ball in has hands looking to throw when Goedart initiated the contact. Had Smith initiated the contact it would have been a penalty on Smith, and Wilson's play would have been wiped out, and the penalty would have given the Eagles a first down.

Rockport · Jun 17, 2021

Future said:
Too often fans attribute bad offense to good defense.

Too often fans fail to understand good defense.

Rockport · Jun 17, 2021

blueblood70 said:
first off it was a very fast and heavy pass rush IE good defense that created Wentz fleeing from the pocket , he may have held onto the ball to long sure but the hit and strip was epic..that was very good defense ie started at the snap not the conclusion but hey if you want to TRY HARD to rip the team and not try nd find some positive's from last years debacle, that reflection of your personality..

TwoCentPlain · Jun 17, 2021

OmerV said:
I assume this post was in jest .....

But if not, if not, go back and watch the clip all the way through. That was a TE (Dallas Goedart) - and he was an eligible receiver. Immediately after Goedart pushed Smith he turned to Wentz to look for a throw. Accordingly, Goedart pushed off illegally because Wentz still had the ball in has hands looking to throw when Goedart initiated the contact. Had Smith initiated the contact it would have been a penalty on Smith, and Wilson's play would have been wiped out, and the penalty would have given the Eagles a first down.

I thought once a QB leaves the pocket the DBs can make contact with WRs.

By the time Jaylon got blown back 5 yards by a one- hand push, he was not covering anyone.

Maybe Jaylon was intentionally flopping to try to draw a flag. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Nothing to do with being soft.

OmerV · Jun 17, 2021

Future said:
Throw the ball away.

I mean yes, it was defended well, but there's absolutely no reason for Wentz to hold the football that long.

Well I agree with the bolded, but two things one that.

One is that we always like to "grade" the Cowboys based on opponent quality - you can't play QB any worse than this. The other is that if you're dependent on the offense making a mistake to capitalize, then it's hard to call you a great player. It's basically my stance on safeties overall - that play doesn't exist without a huge failure from the quarterback.

But you suggested it your previous post the play was only a result of bad offense, not good defense. The reality is, while Wentz should have thrown the ball away, even if he had it would have been good defense that forced him to do that - good coverage, and a good play by Wilson to make sure Wentz didn't have time to wait for a receiver.

Future · Jun 17, 2021

OmerV said:
But you suggested it your previous post the play was only a result of bad offense, not good defense. The reality is, while Wentz should have thrown the ball away, even if he had it would have been good defense that forced him to do that - good coverage, and a good play by Wilson to make sure Wentz didn't have time to wait for a receiver.

The sack and fumble were the result of bad offense. We're not talking about this as a Wilson highlight if Wentz just throws the ball away. The well defended part is what leads to the ball being thrown away by a good quarterback, the sack fumble is just offensive ineptitude.

Stash · Jun 17, 2021

Aerolithe_Lion said:
well he’s not wrong. The NFL’s leader in sacks, fumbles, and interceptions (despite playing in only 12 games) is just standing there waiting for him

That's true. That was an inexplicable decision by Wentz.

MyFairLady · Jun 17, 2021

DeaconMoss said:
54 got blown up with the one hand off balance shove. Weak

LOL when you focus on that guy for every play for an entire game your life will never be the same. His play is so bad it will devour a part of your soul.

Stash · Jun 17, 2021

Sydla said:
In fairness, Future largely acts like there is only one side of the ball in football - the offense.

And thinks that he 'knows stuff'. It's a hilarious act.
:lmao:

OmerV · Jun 17, 2021

ninja said:
I thought once a QB leaves the pocket the DBs can make contact with WRs.

By the time Jaylon got blown back 5 yards by a one- hand push, he was not covering anyone.

Maybe Jaylon was intentionally flopping to try to draw a flag. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Nothing to do with being soft.

If the QB is behind the line of scrimmage and has not tucked the ball and committed to running, he is still a passer, and receivers are still receivers. Otherwise a team could have its QB roll out and receivers could plow down DB's to get open. And the reverse would be true where DBs could plow down receivers to keep them from getting open. But that's not how it works.

In this case the QB was still committed to throwing the ball, and the receivers were still receivers. Accordingly, Goedart was an eligible receiver, and the rules regarding contact between the receiver and a defender still applied.

I disagree about Smith not covering anyone. He wasn't at the beginning of the play - he didn't initially cover Goedart because Goardart didn't immediately release into a pass pattern. But that's irrelevant. Once he realized Goedart was running a pattern, he could not initiate contact with Goedart without it being a penalty.

OmerV · Jun 17, 2021

Future said:
The sack and fumble were the result of bad offense. We're not talking about this as a Wilson highlight if Wentz just throws the ball away. The well defended part is what leads to the ball being thrown away by a good quarterback, the sack fumble is just offensive ineptitude.

The sack and fumble were the result of both good defense and bad decision by Wentz. It wouldn't have happened without both.

Future · Jun 17, 2021

OmerV said:
The sack and fumble were the result of both good defense and bad offense. It wouldn't have happened without both.

Not true. It only happened because the quarterback did not throw the ball away. That lack of decision making is independent of what the defense does.

If you want to attribute it to good defense, then credit goes to a lot of players before Wilson, who really didn't do anything. The passrush and coverage elsewhere is what prevented Wentz from throwing.

OmerV · Jun 17, 2021

Future said:
Show me the part where I said it wasn't good defense, idiot.

You said it was a mistake to attribute the play to good defense … obviously that's not true. The fact that Wentz should have thrown the ball away doesn't change the fact that good defense has to get credit as well.

Future · Jun 17, 2021

OmerV said:
The fact that Wentz should have thrown the ball away doesn't change the fact that good defense has to get credit as well.

Yes it does.

OmerV · Jun 17, 2021

Future said:
Not true. It only happened because the quarterback did not throw the ball away. That lack of decision making is independent of what the defense does.

If you want to attribute it to good defense, then credit goes to a lot of players before Wilson, who really didn't do anything. The passrush and coverage elsewhere is what prevented Wentz from throwing.

Ever heard of a defense forcing mistakes? That's part of the goal of any defense - to put the offense under pressure to increase the chance of the offense making mistakes. Offensive mistakes are increased dramatically when the defense does that. THAT'S what good defense does.

In this case, if the defense didn't cover well or Wilson didn't attack, the situation would never have occurred where a decision to throw the ball away would be in play. There would have been no pressure on the QB to make a decision - he would either have thrown to an open receiver or waited until one got open. it's nonsensical to act as if the defense had nothing to do with it.

DeaconMoss · Jun 17, 2021

MyFairLady said:
LOL when you focus on that guy for every play for an entire game your life will never be the same. His play is so bad it will devour a part of your soul.

Funny thing I was watching Wilson but couldn't help but notice the shove decleat. Rewind and of course it was 54. Prob didn't need rewind, should have known it was 54.

Future · Jun 17, 2021

OmerV said:
Ever heard of a defense forcing mistakes? That's part of the goal of any defense.

Yes and that's not what happened here. Wentz had all the time in the world after escaping the pocket to throw the ball away - the sack is on him for not throwing the ball away and the fumble is on him for not protecting it. Those two things have nothing to do with what happened before or what the defense was doing.

McKDaddy · Jun 17, 2021

Tangle_Foot said:
That was the fast and the furious right there, Wilson hit the nitrous button on Wentz and blew him up

and got the ball .... without getting a penalty. such a change from our norm.

OmerV · Jun 17, 2021

Future said:
Yes and that's not what happened here. Wentz had all the time in the world after escaping the pocket to throw the ball away - the sack is on him for not throwing the ball away and the fumble is on him for not protecting it. Those two things have nothing to do with what happened before or what the defense was doing.

Really, so if he hadn't been flushed from the pocket, and if the DBs hadn't covered well, and if Wilson wouldn't have attacked or hit him, the same thing would have happened?

Wentz would have run out of the pocket for no reason, would have chosen not to throw to the uncovered receivers, and would have fumbled without Wilson attacking or hitting him. .

I guess all I can do is accept that you are committed to believing that.

Future · Jun 17, 2021

OmerV said:
Really, so if he hadn't been flushed from the pocket, and if the DBs hadn't covered well, and if Wilson wouldn't have attacked or hit him, the same thing would have happened?

Wentz would ran out of the pocket for no reason, would have chosen not to throw to the uncovered receivers, and would have fumbled without Wilson attacking or hitting him. .

I guess all I can do is accept that you are committed to believing that.

No, that's not what I said. But also the pass rush didn't get there until almost 4 seconds. The ball should have been gone even before Wentz left the pocket.

You just refuse to give the quarterback any agency, but that's not how the NFL works now. You think that's a sack/fumble if it's Mahomes, Rodgers or whoever with the exact same defense? No. Bad QB play led to the turnover the rest was just your standard defensive effort.

Twitter: Great play by Wilson

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