Twitter: Refs missed a safety call on Arizona

CalPolyTechnique

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,295
Reaction score
44,016
Zman5 said:
That is not same as what he said. He said when dip and rip is used "holding will not be called" as it "puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding."
Click to expand...

Loool, ah, I see, because the rulebook didn’t say “dip and rip” it nullifies everything he said?

The rulebook says under EXCEPTION that if a defender uses a “rip” that puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding […]

How is that different from what he paraphrased?

An “exception” under the Holding rule section means it won’t be called a holding, lol.
 

Sydla

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,982
Reaction score
91,653
CalPolyTechnique said:
Rutroh….

(i) if, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding. Exception: Holding will be called if the defender's feet are taken away from him by the offensive player's action.
Click to expand...

I've seen an explanation on this. I actually think it was from some leaked NFL officiating guide book that had examples. It's vague but the rule is largely trying to prevent a hold when the rip move causes the OL to essentially arm bar a defender. It's not a free for all rule that when a defender uses a rip move then the OL can't be called for holding at all unless he tackles the DE. For example, if a defender uses a rip move, gets by the OL and the OL grabs the shoulder pad or say a fistful of jersey, the hold should be called.

Now, in the Lawrence case, I don't think it's a clear cut hold. If he had tugged more on the shoulder pad or jersey to the point where Lawrence actually was slowed more or re-directed, then sure, that should have been a clear hold. But honestly, it doesn't look like Lawrence is impeded at all on the replays in this thread.
 
CalPolyTechnique

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,295
Reaction score
44,016
Sydla said:
I've seen an explanation on this. I actually think it was from some leaked NFL officiating guide book that had examples. It's vague but the rule is largely trying to prevent a hold when the rip move causes the OL to essentially arm bar a defender. It's not a free for all rule that when a defender uses a rip move then the OL can't be called for holding at all unless he tackles the DE. For example, if a defender uses a rip move, gets by the OL and the OL grabs the shoulder pad or say a fistful of jersey, the hold should be called.

Now, in the Lawrence case, I don't think it's a clear cut hold. If he had tugged more on the shoulder pad or jersey to the point where Lawrence actually was slowed more or re-directed, then sure, that should have been a clear hold. But honestly, it doesn't look like Lawrence is impeded at all on the replays in this thread.
Click to expand...

Ask yourself this, had it been a Cowboys offensive linemen that did the same thing in the endzone and get called for it, do you think all these same folks would be saying “great call by the refs…totally a hold…that was legit?”

No, we’d have six different 10 page threads on how the refs are being ticky tak.

D-Law was flailing his arms like all defenders do to try and draw out a call. Our fans are eating the cheese.
 

Sydla

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,982
Reaction score
91,653
CalPolyTechnique said:
Ask yourself this, had it been a Cowboys offensive linemen do the same thing in the endzone and get called for it, do you think all these same folks would be saying “great call by the refs…totally a hold…that was legit?”

D-Law was flailing his arms like all defenders do to try and draw out a call. Our fans are eating the cheese.
Click to expand...

Of course not. But then again, if they were calling the game close and that was called a hold on Collins, I'd understand it.

To me, the conspiracies about the refs and Cowboys are stupid. My biggest gripe is that there seems to be a wide chasm in consistency play to play, game to game, crew to crew. And it just seems like it's getting worse.
 
Zman5

Zman5

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,896
Reaction score
20,220
CalPolyTechnique said:
Loool, ah, I see, because the rulebook didn’t say “dip and rip” it nullifies everything he said?

The rulebook says under EXCEPTION that if a defender uses a “rip” that puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding […]

How is that different from what he paraphrased?

An “exception” under the Holding rule section means it won’t be called a holding, lol.
Click to expand...


It has nothing to do with dip and rip. Saying ,"Holding will not be called when a rip move is used" is not same as what the actual rule say.

i) if, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding.
Exception: Holding will be called if the defender’s feet are taken away from him by the offensive player’s

If you can't see the obvious difference, I suggest you study the rule more thoroughly.

Rip move is used all the time by the pass rushers. If "holding will not be called when a rip move is used" is true, the defenders will not use it as it would be a free holding play for the offense.
 
CalPolyTechnique

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,295
Reaction score
44,016
Sydla said:
Of course not. But then again, if they were calling the game close and that was called a hold on Collins, I'd understand it.

To me, the conspiracies about the refs and Cowboys are stupid. My biggest gripe is that there seems to be a wide chasm in consistency play to play, game to game, crew to crew. And it just seems like it's getting worse.
Click to expand...

The officiating across the league is awful and a complete embarrassment to the sport.
 

hollaback23

Member
Messages
62
Reaction score
66
MarcusRock said:
You don't grab someone you already have grip on from executing your block. I'd go into the rip move thing but you'll have to read that elsewhere because I've explained it clearly for those that want to know. Most don't. I get it.
Click to expand...

Lol you just proved my point that he grabbed while Lawrence is already past him. That's a hold. The mental gymnastics you use is insane.
 
CalPolyTechnique

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,295
Reaction score
44,016
Zman5 said:
It has nothing to do with dip and rip. Saying ,"Holding will not be called when a rip move is used" is not same as what the actual rule say.

i) if, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding.
Exception: Holding will be called if the defender’s feet are taken away from him by the offensive player’s

If you can't see the obvious difference, I suggest you study the rule more thoroughly.

Rip move is used all the time by the pass rushers. If "holding will not be called when a rip move is used" is true, the defenders will not use it as it would be a free holding play for the offense.
Click to expand...

Lol, smh.

Exception.jpg


What does that highlighted word say?

Do you know what an "exception" means?

Do you understand that under this section of the rulebook it outlines what are considered Illegal Blocks by Offensive Player and then it provides "exceptions" to that rule.
 
gimmesix

gimmesix

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
Messages
37,633
Reaction score
34,686
MarcusRock said:
You can't in any way shape or form tell a hold from a still picture. Don't know why people insist on doing that for motion penalties.

Here are videos and it was not a hold. No material restriction or twisting, turning, hooking, etc. Plus DLaw used a rip move which has an exception in the rules. Again, people are reacting to DLaw's reaction. Wasn't a hold.

DLaw-AZ-GIF.gif


DLaw-AZ-GIF1.gif
Click to expand...

He clearly impeded Lawrence after Lawrence had gotten by him by grabbing his shoulder pad. You can easily see Lawrence's shoulder being pulled back and it forcing him to slow down and redirect. That's not a block; it's a hold.
 
MarcusRock

MarcusRock

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,877
Reaction score
16,147
AshyLarry06 said:
For some reason, you are fixating on the "material" part and idk why because its not that complicated.
Click to expand...

Maybe because it's the overarching rule, perhaps? Lol. If they went through the trouble to add "material" then it would seem that some restriction is acceptable for not calling holding, i.e., not every grab, twist, jerk, etc. is a hold. Again, this is why I posted 2 examples that are extremes. I also knew full well some some would try to ignore the clear material hold or just pass it off by saying they're the same. They're clearly not.
 
CalPolyTechnique

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,295
Reaction score
44,016
hollaback23 said:
So the officiating is bad but they call it fair for the cowboys is what you're implying?
Click to expand...

No, I'm clearly saying officiating is bad across the league and teams are getting screwed on a weekly basis......not just the Cowboys.

I won'teven ask you if you think the league is out to specifically get the Cowboys because I already know the laughable answer.
 
CalPolyTechnique

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,295
Reaction score
44,016
gimmesix said:
He clearly impeded Lawrence after Lawrence had gotten by him by grabbing his shoulder pad. You can easily see Lawrence's shoulder being pulled back and it forcing him to slow down and redirect. That's not a block; it's a hold.
Click to expand...

Were Lawrence's feet "taken away from him" at any point?

No.

Lawrence's shoulder was slightly pulled back, but at no point was his direction altered or feet stopped due to the grab.

Now look at the Schultz's play and tell me it's the same.
 
ESisback

ESisback

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,147
Reaction score
14,025
MarcusRock said:
It's called whine-countering, bro. Get it right. By the way, you want some of this? Been a long while. Now you just snipe from the sidelines like other mean girl also-rans. I miss the beatdowns and can't quit you. Lol.
Click to expand...
Insults for opposing views again? You “enlighten”, while others “stalk” and “snipe from the sidelines”? Predictable and boring.
 
gimmesix

gimmesix

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
Messages
37,633
Reaction score
34,686
Sydla said:
I've seen an explanation on this. I actually think it was from some leaked NFL officiating guide book that had examples. It's vague but the rule is largely trying to prevent a hold when the rip move causes the OL to essentially arm bar a defender. It's not a free for all rule that when a defender uses a rip move then the OL can't be called for holding at all unless he tackles the DE. For example, if a defender uses a rip move, gets by the OL and the OL grabs the shoulder pad or say a fistful of jersey, the hold should be called.

Now, in the Lawrence case, I don't think it's a clear cut hold. If he had tugged more on the shoulder pad or jersey to the point where Lawrence actually was slowed more or re-directed, then sure, that should have been a clear hold. But honestly, it doesn't look like Lawrence is impeded at all on the replays in this thread.
Click to expand...

I don't agree that he wasn't impeded. He had gotten around the tackle and you can see his shoulder get pulled, changing his body movement. Without the grab, he would be able to go directly toward Murray. Instead, you can see him have to gather himself. I don't think he would have been able to catch Murray, but I absolutely believe the shoulder grab impeded him.
 
gimmesix

gimmesix

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
Messages
37,633
Reaction score
34,686
CalPolyTechnique said:
Were Lawrence's feet "taken away from him" at any point?

No.

Lawrence's shoulder was slightly pulled back, but at no point was his direction or feet stopped due to the grab.

Now look at the Schultz's play and tell me it's the same.
Click to expand...

His feet didn't have to be taken from him.. The tackle reached out and grabbed his shoulder, pulling back on the pad after Lawrence had already made his move and gotten past him.

If every hold had to include the defender's feet being taken away from him, then there would be a lot fewer holding calls.

This was not a case of Lawrence ripping his hands and causing them to get their arms tangled. This was a reach and grab after the rip had been completed.
 
Zman5

Zman5

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,896
Reaction score
20,220
CalPolyTechnique said:
Lol, smh.

Exception.jpg


What does that highlighted word say?

Do you know what an "exception" means?

Do you understand that under this section of the rulebook it outlines what are considered Illegal Blocks by Offensive Player and then it provides "exceptions" to that rule.
Click to expand...

LOL. First of all, that exception you highlighted isn't even part of the "rip" rule (section i). That exception is for the previous section (h).
At least get the correct exceptions if you are trying to call someone out. . It's obvious you don't even know how to read the rule book. :facepalm:

The actual rule pertaining to the "rip" is

i) if, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding.
Exception: Holding will be called if the defender’s feet are taken away from him by the offensive player’s action

And "holding will not be called when rip move is used" is not same as what is state in the rule above. Go learn to read the rule book correctly.
 
CalPolyTechnique

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,295
Reaction score
44,016
gimmesix said:
His feet didn't have to be taken from him.. The tackle reached out and grabbed his shoulder, pulling back on the pad after Lawrence had already made his move and gotten past him.

If every hold had to include the defender's feet being taken away from him, then there would be a lot fewer holding calls.

This was not a case of Lawrence ripping his hands and causing them to get their arms tangled. This was a reach and grab after the rip had been completed.
Click to expand...

This is the problem. Y'all are simply making up the rules that make sense in your mind.

The NFL Rulebook states:

Exception: Holding will be called if the defender’s feet are taken away from him by the offensive player’s action.
 

Sydla

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,982
Reaction score
91,653
hollaback23 said:
So the officiating is bad but they call it fair for the cowboys is what you're implying?
Click to expand...

Seems pretty obvious what his point is.

Officiating is bad across the league, not just against Dallas.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top