Why Can't Dallas Field a Good Offense & Defense At The Same Time

Brax

Brax

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,537
Reaction score
7,304
DFWJC said:
Thanks
:thumbup:
Click to expand...
19th in yards , the difference from #5 to 19th is 34 yards a game. I take those points against at #7 and take those 8.5 yards a quarter given up
So Clev was number 5 in yards. But #14 in points and some still go by yards. Official what ever I want a d that doesn’t allow points.
 
Oz-of-Cowboy-Country

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,259
Reaction score
17,077
Why can't Dallas feild a good offense and defense at the same time? Because they pay big at positions that really didn't need a big payout. For instance, the running back position and a tight end position. So now you have most of your money on the offensive side of the ball and defense tends the struggle when that happens.
 
zrinkill

zrinkill

Cowboy Fan
Messages
46,540
Reaction score
26,958
https://encrypted-tbn0.***NOT-ALLOWED***/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9VcfvVk7CbMnJY81MR6QwaIcZG3EwU95lmHuN64fKbJxALDJy_WN2REz69ycrAxaijTM&usqp=CAU
 
cityochamps

cityochamps

What Just Happened Here
Messages
6,211
Reaction score
7,469
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
kskboys said:
Ummm, everywhere? Don't know what you mean.
Click to expand...
Total scoring defense-scoring # 7 and Total defense (yards) #19 are both for used as quick stat makers to rank a team leaving out other components of defensive play. In theory teams could rack up 400 yards on your D using a total defense-yards ranking and if you keep them out of the end zone and they never score it doesn't matter you rank lower. Other more accurate ratings with all components considered at least 1/2 dozen I can think of the cowboys were number 7. There are 19 components to a defense that can be used as part of rankings, the most comprehensive and accurate defense rankings use at lease 11 or 12 and place modifiers on them. Bottom line is this, If you are only going to use a few of the games stats like the NFL does, I'll take Total Scoring Defense simply because it makes more sense, after all it determines the outcome of the game, or think of it this way, you also don't see allot of trash scoring in the NFL but you do see a bunch or trash yards, move up down the field all day but if I keep you out of the endzone we win. (or tie if We don't score either). My glass is half full my friend!:thumbup:
 
FuzzyLumpkins

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,032
Reaction score
27,375
Diehardblues said:
Like I said, you’re the one who wants to rewrite history not acknowledging the official NFL stats ranking .

Scoring is flawed as the ultimate measurement because the offense and special teams can also give up points. And why the league doesn’t use it as official measurement. That said it can be an important contributing factor though much like turnovers are.
Click to expand...

You're asking me to acknowledge your assertion. I am telling you to support your assertion. What press release or history book, NFL Films production, or anything from the NFL that states your claim. Prima facie we know they don't hand out awards for it.

Cause there has been a huge ongoing discussion in the NFL about that topic and there was hardly a consensus. It started in earnest when Aikman was coming up with his efficiency ratings because as he and many others understand, raw yardage is a poor metric to evaluate performance. It's evolved immensely since then.

And points isn't perfect but it is much better than yardage. And the point I'm making here is that football is a very complex game and oversimplifying a units performance down to one stat is poor analysis. This is made much worse when we are downright elite in the the 6 stats which correlate better to wins than raw yardage.
 
CowboyFrog

CowboyFrog

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,137
Reaction score
10,115
FuzzyLumpkins said:
You're asking me to acknowledge your assertion. I am telling you to support your assertion. What press release or history book, NFL Films production, or anything from the NFL that states your claim. Prima facie we know they don't hand out awards for it.

Cause there has been a huge ongoing discussion in the NFL about that topic and there was hardly a consensus. It started in earnest when Aikman was coming up with his efficiency ratings because as he and many others understand, raw yardage is a poor metric to evaluate performance. It's evolved immensely since then.

And points isn't perfect but it is much better than yardage. And the point I'm making here is that football is a very complex game and oversimplifying a units performance down to one stat is poor analysis. This is made much worse when we are downright elite in the the 6 stats which correlate better to wins than raw yardage.
Click to expand...


I can agree with all of this but the worse thing in my opinion that a defense can be bad is stopping the run.....again it kills a game when a team can run the ball at will on you..again not every team can but when you get to the playoffs most have a run game and we have been ultimatley bad at stopping it. So yes in most case not giving up points is a much better measure, unless that team can eat clock and you cant stop them because they ultimatley need less points to beat you....and of course this goes even worse when they can stop your offense.
 
Runwildboys

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff
Messages
50,489
Reaction score
94,537
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
It's a very difficult feat for any team to accomplish. A good offense requires more than a couple of very good players, and the same holds true for a good defense. Very good players like to get paid as much as possible, and there's often another team willing to pay more than you can afford for at least one of those players.
 
Diehardblues

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
55,449
Reaction score
36,617
FuzzyLumpkins said:
You're asking me to acknowledge your assertion. I am telling you to support your assertion. What press release or history book, NFL Films production, or anything from the NFL that states your claim. Prima facie we know they don't hand out awards for it.

Cause there has been a huge ongoing discussion in the NFL about that topic and there was hardly a consensus. It started in earnest when Aikman was coming up with his efficiency ratings because as he and many others understand, raw yardage is a poor metric to evaluate performance. It's evolved immensely since then.

And points isn't perfect but it is much better than yardage. And the point I'm making here is that football is a very complex game and oversimplifying a units performance down to one stat is poor analysis. This is made much worse when we are downright elite in the the 6 stats which correlate better to wins than raw yardage.
Click to expand...
I’m not discounting these other contributing factors. But the official NFL defensive rankings are based on total yardage.
 
Pass2Run

Pass2Run

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,870
Reaction score
12,220
FuzzyLumpkins said:
I'm not sure what they call it officially but it's total yards against.

I find things like total points, points per drive, turnovers per drive, negative play rate, and 3rd down efficiency to be better indicators of defensive performance. We performed well above average with a more comprehensive sample.
Click to expand...

Points is all that matters.

In that regard, Dallas was 8th @ 21.2 points per game given up in 2021.

That's why I say we'll be a top 5 defense this year, because we will.

We weren't nearly as bad last year as some make us out to be.

It's more about cleaning up the mistakes. We had the guys to win last year. It was penalties that killed us.

The year before last, Dallas gave up 29.6 points per game in 2020.

So DQ really is improving our team by leaps and bounds.

He is the man.
 
Last edited:
KJJ

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
57,163
Reaction score
35,229
We’ve had a number of very good offensive teams over the years because most of the rules favor the offense and have made it tougher to play consistent defense. You need several good defensive players to build a solid defense. One great defensive player doesn’t make a great unit. Defenses are handcuffed these days by the rules. I remember when Calvin Johnson went into the Hall of Fame last season he said he felt sorry for defenses. Another reason our offenses have been real good is we always have a solid productive QB.

We haven’t been having to waste premium draft picks trying to find a QB like other teams. We’ve hit on a lot of picks on offense but not nearly as many on defense. We’ve had too many average players on that side of the ball. We haven’t had a real strong DL in years, dating back to the 90s. Heading into this season most of the concerns are on our offense. Our defense could very well take a step forward this season but our offense could take a step or two back.
 
Pass2Run

Pass2Run

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,870
Reaction score
12,220
KJJ said:
We’ve had a number of very good offensive teams over the years because most of the rules favor the offense and have made it tougher to play consistent defense. You need several good defensive players to build a solid defense. One great defensive player doesn’t make a great unit. Defenses are handcuffed these days by the rules. I remember when Calvin Johnson went into the Hall of Fame last season he said he felt sorry for defenses. Another reason our offenses have been real good is we always have a solid productive QB.

We haven’t been having to waste premium draft picks trying to find a QB like other teams. We’ve hit on a lot of picks on offense but not nearly as many on defense. We’ve had too many average players on that side of the ball. We haven’t had a real strong DL in years, dating back to the 90s. Heading into this season most of the concerns are on our offense. Our defense could very well take a step forward this season but our offense could take a step or two back.
Click to expand...

It's also possible our offense takes a step forward.

Say, if Jake Fergeson ends up being a really good player, we play more 12 and dominate with our best personnel.

I think we figure out a way.

People don't have enough faith in Moore. He's no slouch.
 
Pass2Run

Pass2Run

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,870
Reaction score
12,220
Only points matters, because you can play a bend but don't break defense and give up yards but not points.

NFL official stat can eat it. Because points is all that matters.

If you're #1 in yards, but 30th in points, why does it matter??
 
KJJ

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
57,163
Reaction score
35,229
Pass2Run said:
It's also possible our offense takes a step forward.

Say, if Jake Fergeson ends up being a really good player, we play more 12 and dominate with our best personnel.

I think we figure out a way.

People don't have enough faith in Moore. He's no slouch.
Click to expand...

Anything is possible but I wouldn’t count on our offense taking a step forward from what we saw last year unless two or three of the new players we added have “standout” seasons. One of them has already gone down with an injury and will be out 6 to 10 weeks. We had the number one offense statistically last season. We had a very talented offense that lost two excellent WRs. I just can’t envision us being better with this receiving corp along with the questions we have on the OL. Plus with our kicker situation we may have to go for a lot of the fourth down situations because we can’t count on these kickers. Both have looked terrible so far. That’s going to put even more pressure on our offense.
 

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
44,772
Reaction score
47,596
FuzzyLumpkins said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand-waving

Seems about right.
Click to expand...
Ah throwing insults then? Weak, dude.
FuzzyLumpkins said:
Huh?

What history? The one you're making up in your head?

I know one history you are ignoring is the recent revolution in statistics that has been going on in sports over the past 30 years.

At the end of the day, total yards doesn't correlate as well to points or wins as opposed to the stats I listed. Have fun creating your history.
Click to expand...
It's like, you have these little ideas in your head, and since they don't make sense, all you can do is just insult people. Man, are you like 13 or something?
 

buybuydandavis

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,849
Reaction score
20,921
Vinnie2u said:
I'll tell you why... They over compensate.. When the offense was putrid, especially the Oline. They used a bunch of resources to fix the line. Problem solved. But the defense got old quick. Then they have to use a whole entire draft to fix the defense.. Things are looking up.. Now we got a old slow Zeke, 1 WR and Oline is looking a mess. Now its time to fix the Offense..
Click to expand...

We just complain about whatever is weaker.
 

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
44,772
Reaction score
47,596
Brax said:
19th in yards , the difference from #5 to 19th is 34 yards a game. I take those points against at #7 and take those 8.5 yards a quarter given up
So Clev was number 5 in yards. But #14 in points and some still go by yards. Official what ever I want a d that doesn’t allow points.
Click to expand...
If you don't allow yards, you don't allow points. Basic stuff, dude.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top