If there's an obscure penalty that hasn't been called in 15 years

MarcusRock · Dec 23, 2018

Furboy said:
Yes, but, as I pointed out to Marcus, it's highly possible that he was told, or thought that he was told, to move to that side. Perhaps Heath was telling Jaylon to go there, but Lawrence may have thought that Heath was telling him to shift a bit. As I said, it'd explain the sudden look to the left and then the shift right.

But Heath was to Lawrence's right. No one was behind Lawrence to the left except Awuzie back off the line staring at the TE.

RustyBourneHorse · Dec 23, 2018

MarcusRock said:
But Heath was to Lawrence's right. No one was behind Lawrence to the left except Awuzie back off the line staring at the TE.

Well, at least speaking for myself, if I am unsure as to whom I think is telling me something, I do tend to look either side, and Lawrence still could've thought that the order was coming from his left. Granted, my hearing isn't the best.

MarcusRock · Dec 23, 2018

Furboy said:
Yes, but, as I pointed out to Marcus, it's highly possible that he was told, or thought that he was told, to move to that side. Perhaps Heath was telling Jaylon to go there, but Lawrence may have thought that Heath was telling him to shift a bit. As I said, it'd explain the sudden look to the left and then the shift right.

Here's the alignment on the play. You see Heath pointing (and looking) at the center of the line, probably for Jaylon. Why not yell towards DLaw if you're talking to him?

RustyBourneHorse · Dec 23, 2018

MarcusRock said:
Here's the alignment on the play:

Ah yes, that's better. Well, Awuzie could still have said something from that alignment. I see Heath pointing, but I still think Awuzie may have said something to Lawrence. I could be wrong, but maybe that's what happened or Lawrence may have thought he heard Awuzie say something. He still can't see either Heath or Awuzie based on that picture.

CowboyStar88 · Dec 23, 2018

Kaiser said:
That isn't what the Ref told Demarcus directly:

And he said it with a straight face? That dudes gotta be a good poker player.

MarcusRock · Dec 23, 2018

Furboy said:
Ah yes, that's better. Well, Awuzie could still have said something from that alignment. I see Heath pointing, but I still think Awuzie may have said something to Lawrence. I could be wrong, but maybe that's what happened or Lawrence may have thought he heard Awuzie say something. He still can't see either Heath or Awuzie based on that picture.

Awuzie didn't move one bit from :05 left on the play clock so if he said something he surely didn't yell it, and he would have had to because the crowd was making a lot of noise.

RustyBourneHorse · Dec 23, 2018

MarcusRock said:
Awuzie didn't move one bit from :05 left on the play clock so if he said something he surely didn't yell it, and he would have had to because the crowd was making a lot of noise.

Yes, he may not have yelled it, but Lawrence may still have heard him say something. It still doesn't disqualify the possibility that Dlaw may have thought that he heard Awuzie say something to him.

MarcusRock · Dec 23, 2018

Furboy said:
Yes, he may not have yelled it, but Lawrence may still have heard him say something. It still doesn't disqualify the possibility that Dlaw may have thought that he heard Awuzie say something to him.

Don't think officials even take that into account. They just see the jerky movement and the OL reacting to it by false starting. Remember, the Line Judge is on the sideline looking for movement. The other refs are only listening to see if the defense is trying to simulate the snap count. The rest is just noise to them.

RustyBourneHorse · Dec 23, 2018

MarcusRock said:
Don't think officials even take that into account. They just see the jerky movement and the OL reacting to it by false starting. Remember, the Line Judge is on the sideline looking for movement. The other refs are only listening to see if the defense is trying to simulate the snap count. The rest is just noise to them.

That's possible, but I'm thinking that it'd explain the movement. That's all I'm saying. If that's the cause, then the players need to be careful with the communication next time so that sort of mix up doesn't happen. Because, to me, the pointing that DLaw was doing was toward the playclock, so I don't think that he was being deceptive with the leftward look that he made. I could be wrong, and I certainly can't read his mind as I have enough trouble making up my own mind as it is. However, based on those possibilities and circumstances, I have a hard time believing that he was actually being deceptive there. Though, you are right that the refs probably wouldn't take a miscommunication into account. I'm just explaining my thoughts as to why he would've looked left and then moved right.

MarcusRock · Dec 23, 2018

Furboy said:
That's possible, but I'm thinking that it'd explain the movement. That's all I'm saying. If that's the cause, then the players need to be careful with the communication next time so that sort of mix up doesn't happen. Because, to me, the pointing that DLaw was doing was toward the playclock, so I don't think that he was being deceptive with the leftward look that he made. I could be wrong, and I certainly can't read his mind as I have enough trouble making up my own mind as it is. However, based on those possibilities and circumstances, I have a hard time believing that he was actually being deceptive there. Though, you are right that the refs probably wouldn't take a miscommunication into account. I'm just explaining my thoughts as to why he would've looked left and then moved right.

DLaw wasn't pointing at the play clock. He was pointing at the TE for moving, as did Awuzie. The fact that he immediately pointed to the TE tells me he was looking for it because of his intentional move that worked. The officials noticed though.

RustyBourneHorse · Dec 23, 2018

MarcusRock said:
DLaw wasn't pointing at the play clock. He was pointing at the TE for moving, as did Awuzie. The fact that he immediately pointed to the TE tells me he was looking for it because of his intentional move that worked. The officials noticed though.

Oh, I thought he was pointing at the playclock. Awfully stupid of him then. He probably would've had more of a point if he had been pointing to the playclock which had been at nil for quite some time.

Kaiser · Dec 23, 2018

MarcusRock said:
That's why when the ref made the call he cited "abrupt movement" just like the rulebook states in the delay of game rule. And the call was "delay of game," not offsides.

You are right, I watched the tape and he did say "abrupt movement".

Kaiser · Dec 23, 2018

After watching the tape, Markus is right that there is enough "abrupt movement" that if desperately want to make the call, you can.

Watching it again, Demarcus does put his hand over the tip of the ball for a neutral zone infraction, which is what the Ref told him. But that isn't what they called, it was the shift. Its tiny but its enough if you are really looking hard for a reason to call it. This stuff goes on with half the plays.

Also the TE did move, which was the reason for DLaw's pointing. That could have been called but it wasn't.

My main takeaway was that it was a makeup call because they should have given Winston the first down rushing on the previous play. The long conference among the officials on a play where you had three tiny penalties before a delay penalty that would have effectively ended the game for TB gives that impression also.

The play was with 9 minutes left when Dallas had a 14 point lead. If they actually call the delay TB is on a 3rd and 6 and there is a high chance they don't convert and most fans turn the channel. Who knows the real story but it seems like the refs were inclined to keep the score close.

MarcusRock · Dec 23, 2018

Kaiser said:
After watching the tape, Markus is right

Y'all can stop reading after that. Of course I'm right. Actual rules and actual video saved this thread at least 12 more pages. You're welcome and Merry Christmas.

StarBoyz83 · Dec 23, 2018

It was a bs call no doubt

Kaiser · Dec 24, 2018

StarBoyz83 said:
It was a bs call no doubt

It was BS in the sense that you can call something like that on either team on 80% of the plays of every NFL game. But if you were in a lawsuit over this, its technically correct.

So Markus gets a cookie for Christmas.

Keithfansince5 · Dec 24, 2018

Sydla said:
They literally had a delay of game AND a false start before Lawrence "pointed", which was apparently the reason for the penalty.

Truly awful and does nothing to quell the cries that the league plays favorites with teams in games. I am not one to believe conspiracies, but LOL, stuff like that makes you think maybe people aren't that crazy.

Were not. It is right in front of your eyes.

Fritsch_the_cat · Dec 24, 2018

It was a BS call no matter how you slice it.

CowboyMike · Dec 24, 2018

Literally everyone believes this call was wrong except for Marcus and TB fans.

lukin2006 · Dec 24, 2018

Talking of penalties. Love how a guy grabs Zeke's face mask, turns his head and no call? He had the ball, one of those donkey officials had to see it.

If there's an obscure penalty that hasn't been called in 15 years

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