If there's an obscure penalty that hasn't been called in 15 years

[Rayman70]

refs are reachin into their bag o tricks DEEP when it comes to officiating a Dallas game. Goodell has his hand in this.

 

[Blake]

This is football. Keep your maga crap to yourself.

Triggered.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

But people said Pereira was a hack when he called the Dez play not a catch, lol. People want to appeal to authority when it's convenient instead of looking at what actually happened.

You're only paying attention to what the broadcasters said. Troy and Joe had no idea what the rule was. They were talking about Lawrence pointing which was after what the play was actually about, which was Lawrence's abrupt motion causing the TE to flinch. You simply can't do that by the rule. You don't think Lawrence's motion was abrupt when does a head fake one way but moves the other way?

I don't think it was problematic. I'm not going to act like we're always the victims, because we're not. I think the Eagles and Saints games showed that we do occasionally get calls going our way that normally shouldn't. He never crossed the line, and, if I recall correctly, the clock was at nil by the time he'd finished his shift. So, either way, it's still a delay of game on TB because the clock was at nil.

 

[MarcusRock]

I don't think it was problematic. I'm not going to act like we're always the victims, because we're not. I think the Eagles and Saints games showed that we do occasionally get calls going our way that normally shouldn't. He never crossed the line, and, if I recall correctly, the clock was at nil by the time he'd finished his shift. So, either way, it's still a delay of game on TB because the clock was at nil.

You're not getting it. It's not about crossing the line. You can't jump to cause the OL to false start. And Lawrence did his head fake twitch with 1 second left, causing the TE to move in reaction. Did you see the rule I posted?

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

As if on que..and how many of those have been called in the last 5 years? Dlinemen are changing gaps constantly

Exactly right. Like I stated, I saw JJ Watt do the exact same thing in today's game against Philly, and it wasn't called. I dunno how we get called there though. I've never in my life seen that called as delay of game. Granted, I'll be 26 on Saturday, so I've obviously not seen as much football as the rest of you lot, but I am still befuddled as to how that was called when the play clock was at nil. Even so, nobody reacted to that until a solid two or three seconds after the clock had hit nil.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

You're not getting it. It's not about crossing the line. You can't jump to cause the OL to false start. And Lawrence did his head fake twitch with 1 second left, causing the TE to move in reaction. Did you see the rule I posted?

I saw the rule that you had posted, again, I've seen that on MANY other games including today with JJ Watt, and it didn't get called. Sorry mate, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. I am quite sure that this was rubbish.

 

[MarcusRock]

I saw the rule that you had posted, again, I've seen that on MANY other games including today with JJ Watt, and it didn't get called. Sorry mate, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. I am quite sure that this was rubbish.

When Watt moved, did it cause the OL to false start?

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

That's the problem. Fans don't know the rules. Just like with the Dez no-catch. When something happens, they go straight into outrage meltdown mode instead of the rulebook and then are too emotional to come back and actually read. Here are the other delay of game penalties and even this isn't an exhaustive list. (d) is the one that applied here, obviously.

ARTICLE 5. OTHER DELAY OF GAME FOULS. Other examples of action or inaction that are to be construed as delay of the game include, but are not limited to:
(a) a player unnecessarily remains on a dead ball or on a runner who has been downed;
(b) the snapper repeatedly snaps the ball after the neutral zone is established and before all the officials have had a reasonable time to assume their positions (see 7-6-3-c);
(c) undue delay by either team in assembling after a timeout;
(d) a defensive player aligned in a stationary position within one yard of the line of scrimmage makes quick and abrupt actions that are not a part of normal defensive player movement and are an obvious attempt to cause an offensive player(s) to foul (false start). (The officials shall blow their whistles immediately.) If the defender is walking or running toward the line of scrimmage in an effort to time the snap, but stops abruptly because the snap is not made, it is not a foul for delay of game;
(e) spiking or throwing the ball in the field of play after a down has ended, except after a score;
(f) intentional contact with the football to delay the snap or the officials’ ability to make the ball ready for play; or
(g) when a timeout is erroneously granted. See 4-5-1-Note for enforcement.​

The move that DLaw made, as far as what I saw, would not qualify here, as far as I know. While it was an abrupt action, I do see it quite often from other defencive players. To me, it looked like a normal shift in position to try and gain an advantage on the lineman to get after the QB or RB, not draw the penalty, and the point that he made was to the clock.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

When Watt moved, did it cause the OL to false start?

No, but, again, based on the rule that I saw that you had posted, it's still a normal movement for a defender to make. Every defender makes the shift. Does that mean that offencive lineman can just move when they see defenders move like that and claim that movement "caused them to false start"?

 

[MarcusRock]

While it was an abrupt action...

But the rule says right in the post you quoted ... "abrupt actions"

 

[Kaiser]

When Watt moved, did it cause the OL to false start?

That isn't what the Ref told Demarcus directly:

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

But the rule says right in the post you quoted ... "abrupt actions"

Abrupt, but the movement must also be unusual for a defender. "abrupt actions that are not a part of normal defensive player movement and are an obvious attempt to cause an offensive player(s) to foul (false start)." The abrupt action must also not be part of a normal defencive player movement and an obvious attempt to cause an offencive player to false start. In this case, it's a simple shift in position to gain leverage on a favourable matchup that DLaw saw with the oline on a short yardage play. This would allow him to be able to shoot the gap to gain easier access to the RB. Therefore, while it is abrupt, it is a normal move. Therefore, this part of the rule does not apply.

 

[MarcusRock]

No, but, again, based on the rule that I saw that you had posted, it's still a normal movement for a defender to make. Every defender makes the shift. Does that mean that offencive lineman can just move when they see defenders move like that and claim that movement "caused them to false start"?

Normal movement if you hop over or just move over, not twitch one way and then move another abruptly. Otherwise, defenders can make twitchy moves like that all the time and claim they were just moving over. It's been a rule for a long time. The only ones claiming it's obscure do so for convenience sake.

 

[Little Jr]

Delay of game on the defense hasn't been called this year until today. It was called 3 times in 2017, none on us. It was called 3 times in 2016, none on us. It was called 6 times in 2015, once on us.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Normal movement if you hop over or just move over, not twitch one way and then move another abruptly. Otherwise, defenders can make twitchy moves like that all the time and claim they were just moving over. It's been a rule for a long time. The only ones claiming it's obscure do so for convenience sake.

Except, I've seen those movements a lot by defencive linemen even with a short time to go on the play clock to gain leverage on the lineman. Again, while it's abrupt, it's not an abnormal move for the defender to make.

 

[MarcusRock]

That isn't what the Ref told Demarcus directly:

That's why when the ref made the call he cited "abrupt movement" just like the rulebook states in the delay of game rule. And the call was "delay of game," not offsides.

 

[Kaiser]

That's why when the ref made the call he cited "abrupt movement" just like the rulebook states in the delay of game rule. And the call was "delay of game," not offsides.

I'll check the tape, I don't remember the ref giving the crowd an explanation when he made the call.

And you are right, the call was delay of game. So why did the Ref tell DLaw something different?

 

[MarcusRock]

Abrupt, but the movement must also be unusual for a defender. "abrupt actions that are not a part of normal defensive player movement and are an obvious attempt to cause an offensive player(s) to foul (false start)." The abrupt action must also not be part of a normal defencive player movement and an obvious attempt to cause an offencive player to false start. In this case, it's a simple shift in position to gain leverage on a favourable matchup that DLaw saw with the oline on a short yardage play. This would allow him to be able to shoot the gap to gain easier access to the RB. Therefore, while it is abrupt, it is a normal move. Therefore, this part of the rule does not apply.

Is it a normal move to twitch a head fake left when you were going right the whole time? It was deceptive, which is probably why it was called.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Is it a normal move to twitch a head fake left when you were going right the whole time? It was deceptive, which is probably why it was called.

My guess is that the twitch was to make sure that he was still onside. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought he was doing there, so, again, that wouldn't be abnormal.

 

[MarcusRock]

I'll check the tape, I don't remember the ref giving the crowd an explanation when he made the call.

And you are right, the call was delay of game. So why did the Ref tell DLaw something different?

You "misremember" a lot so I'm not surprised. I have the game tape and listened to it as I captured the video I posted. I don't BS.

And since this report from Lawrence is 2nd hand, I wouldn't be so sure. How in Hades do you "verbally" try to make someone jump offsides by moving side to side.