Would Hill have gone 1st round if not for attitude?

waldoputty

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Saunders is more of a high floor low ceiling type. His high is prolly a 6.5, Hill's potential is a 9. However, Saunders low is a 4.5, Hill's is a 1.5.

i dont agree.
hill probably has a higher floor because his penetration traits.
not only that, when he was on the field, he was relentless and produced.
his problem was not being on the field enough.
the reason he was not on the field was, however, not due to production as he was the best dl on the team.
the perfect example is his big game in the conference championship where he dominated including 2 sacks.
but then in the fiesta bowl the next game, he was played sparingly and he was not injured while his defense teammates were left on the field too long.
the problems he had with the coaches was not due to dv or drugs.
and we also know the coaches probably started the bad blood with hill when they rejected his transfer to follow his original coach to nebraska.
 

speedkilz88

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Next up, some real Trysten Hill love.
A GM said he rated second-round Cowboys defensive tackle Trysten Hill ahead of Christian Wilkins, the defensive tackle the Dolphins selected 13th overall. Some of the appeal depends on the fit, which is a big part of these evaluations.

”Hill is not a good fit in Dallas, he is a great fit,” this GM said. “He is athletic, he is fast and he went to the perfect spot where he has a great coach [Rod Marinelli] who can get it out of him. He is a very good nose in that scheme who can play 3-technique and be an every-down player. He has more talent upside than Wilkins does.”



Higher than Christian Wilkins? I heard that said on draft night, but wasn’t sure if I believed it. Guess one NFL GM did say that, for what it’s worth. But there were detractors, too.
That is not a unanimous opinion. A former GM said he didn’t see special traits with Hill and questioned whether he had the upside. Such is the nature of draft analysis.



https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/201...o-cowboys-picks-trysten-hill-and-tony-pollard
 

kskboys

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i dont agree.
hill probably has a higher floor because his penetration traits.
not only that, when he was on the field, he was relentless and produced.
his problem was not being on the field enough.
the reason he was not on the field was, however, not due to production as he was the best dl on the team.
the perfect example is his big game in the conference championship where he dominated including 2 sacks.
but then in the fiesta bowl the next game, he was played sparingly and he was not injured while his defense teammates were left on the field too long.
the problems he had with the coaches was not due to dv or drugs.
and we also know the coaches probably started the bad blood with hill when they rejected his transfer to follow his original coach to nebraska.
His traits are what make him a possible 9. I'm not sure you understand floors and ceilings. If Hill had a higher floor, he would've been a 1st rounder, w/o doubt.

Coming from a small football school is one thing that lowers a player's floor.
 

waldoputty

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His traits are what make him a possible 9. I'm not sure you understand floors and ceilings. If Hill had a higher floor, he would've been a 1st rounder, w/o doubt.

Coming from a small football school is one thing that lowers a player's floor.
Sure but one of the less talented players also at small school
 

kskboys

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Sure but one of the less talented players also at small school
I love Hill's traits and I think we found a good one, personally. However, that doesn't change things such as only starting one game last year, he's too easily knocked to the turf, and seems unaware of trap and cut blocks.

That's what gives him a lower floor, along w/ him reportedly having poor practice habits and carrying too much weight around his middle.

But hey, if not for that, he'd have been long gone!!! This might be the most explosive DT in this draft!!!!!
 

waldoputty

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I love Hill's traits and I think we found a good one, personally. However, that doesn't change things such as only starting one game last year, he's too easily knocked to the turf, and seems unaware of trap and cut blocks.

That's what gives him a lower floor, along w/ him reportedly having poor practice habits and carrying too much weight around his middle.

But hey, if not for that, he'd have been long gone!!! This might be the most explosive DT in this draft!!!!!
He is in fact the most explosive dt in the draft based on standard jump numbers. What is between the ears matters a lot. But by all accounts he has a nonstop motor on the field. The issue is how hard he practices to improve. I think u r selling him short. With all the bs stuff going on at UCf I think coaches deserve more of the blame. He is probably immature but he is clearly motivated by money. And he knows what he needs to do for $ after the spanking he received
 

kskboys

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He is in fact the most explosive dt in the draft based on standard jump numbers. What is between the ears matters a lot. But by all accounts he has a nonstop motor on the field. The issue is how hard he practices to improve. I think u r selling him short. With all the bs stuff going on at UCf I think coaches deserve more of the blame. He is probably immature but he is clearly motivated by money. And he knows what he needs to do for $ after the spanking he received
I'm not selling him short at all!!! I love the kid!!! You just don't find DT's w/ his type of explosion.

I simply recognize that he does have some bust potential. It's ok to like/love a player and still be able to recognize his downside.
 

waldoputty

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I'm not selling him short at all!!! I love the kid!!! You just don't find DT's w/ his type of explosion.

I simply recognize that he does have some bust potential. It's ok to like/love a player and still be able to recognize his downside.

of course he has downside.
but look at his burst through the jump test scores, which is even better than donald!
it is the best in the draft and i think top 3 in the last how many hundred dts.

the downside is what is going on in his head.
after finding his new coaches did him dirty (possibly multiple times), i think we got a steal.
 

xwalker

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2 dts were taken between hill and #90.
dre'mont jone at #71
saunders at #84

look at how hill compares with these 2 physically.
hills weighs 310-330
jones is much smaller at 281 while saunders is 320 with shorter arms.

furthermore, hill is superior athletically to jones in all the important categories
and superior athletically to saunders in 3 out of 4 categories.

for the critical penetration stats for 3t, hill is vastly more explosive than both, even the smaller jones.
vertical jump (pure explosiveness) is 35" for hill while for 30.5" saunders and 31.5" for the much smaller jones.
broad jump (explosive + balance) is 115" for hill while 101" for saunders and 110" for much smaller jones
3 cone (pure agility) is 7.7 for hill while 7.57 for saunders and 7.71 for jones
shuttle (agility + explosion) is 4.38 for hill while 4.62 for saunders and 4.53 for jones

since some call saunder explosive, what does that make hill - rocket launched?
seriously doubt hill would have last until 90
Saunders is more of a high floor low ceiling type. His high is prolly a 6.5, Hill's potential is a 9. However, Saunders low is a 4.5, Hill's is a 1.5.

I liked both a draft prospects.

Saunders was 324 when his times/jumps were measured. Hill was 308.

I think Saunders would drop a few pounds if he had played 3-tech for the Cowboys. Marinelli had Woods drop 30 pounds last year.

If Saunders dropped 10 pounds his times/jumps would likely be even better (his 3-cone and 10-yard times were quite impressive already).

Saunders had 18 sacks in college.

The only downside with Saunders was lack of height and short-ish arms.

I down see a huge difference in floor or ceiling between Hill and Saunders.

It seems fairly obvious at this point that the only problem with Hill is that he was very devoted to the original UCF coaches and had totally bought into what they taught him.

When the new coaches told him to abandon the previous coaches methods, he had a hard time doing it. The emotions of not being able to transfer didn't help.

To me part of that points to the first coaching staff being better than the 2nd one and I think the coaches backgrounds would support that concept.

Despite all of that, Randy Shannon, the 2nd D-Coordinator gave a somewhat glowing report on Hill in the interview that he did. It seemed that the decision on Hill starting was not made by him. It seems that the Head Coach made the decision to not start Hill.
 

waldoputty

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I'm not selling him short at all!!! I love the kid!!! You just don't find DT's w/ his type of explosion.

I simply recognize that he does have some bust potential. It's ok to like/love a player and still be able to recognize his downside.

i am beside myself thinking what we may have drafted.
consider this possibility:

he probably tested at the combine at 308lb and got those insane 35 inch vertical jump stats that test for explosion.
many said he played between 320-330.
what happens if marinelli has him play at 300lb instead of 308lb.
he could become even more explosive when he is already more explosive than donald based on his jump stats.
i would not be surprised if marinelli has him playing at 300lb with exercise and good diet.
at that weight, his agility will also improve, and his worse test result was cone at 7.7 sec
 

waldoputty

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I liked both a draft prospects.

Saunders was 324 when his times/jumps were measured. Hill was 308.

I think Saunders would drop a few pounds if he had played 3-tech for the Cowboys. Marinelli had Woods drop 30 pounds last year.

If Saunders dropped 10 pounds his times/jumps would likely be even better (his 3-cone and 10-yard times were quite impressive already).

Saunders had 18 sacks in college.

The only downside with Saunders was lack of height and short-ish arms.

I down see a huge difference in floor or ceiling between Hill and Saunders.

It seems fairly obvious at this point that the only problem with Hill is that he was very devoted to the original UCF coaches and had totally bought into what they taught him.

When the new coaches told him to abandon the previous coaches methods, he had a hard time doing it. The emotions of not being able to transfer didn't help.

To me part of that points to the first coaching staff being better than the 2nd one and I think the coaches backgrounds would support that concept.

Despite all of that, Randy Shannon, the 2nd D-Coordinator gave a somewhat glowing report on Hill in the interview that he did. It seemed that the decision on Hill starting was not made by him. It seems that the Head Coach made the decision to not start Hill.

any idea how much a player can gain in jump scores by losing 10 lbs?
i am basing an estimate based on simple kinetic energy 1/2 mv^2.
so a 3% loss in mass (10lbs out of 320lbs) will result in a 1.7% gain in velocity assuming the same amount of kinetic energy.
so assuming the same time in the air, saunders' 30.5 inch vertical jump would become ~31.1 in?
hill was 35 inch, so still far better.
 

Bullflop

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Would Trysten Hill have been drafted in the first round if not for his attitude??

Let's put it this way, if it weren't for his attitude, we wouldn't have had him! ;)

Be that as it may, under the circumstances, were we not fortunate in the end?
 
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waldoputty

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Would Trysten Hill have been drafted in the first round if not for his attitude??

Let's put it this way, if it weren't for his attitude, we wouldn't have had him! ;)

Be that as it may, under the circumstances, were we not fortunate in the end?

yes, but we are trying to convince ourselves that we got a 1st rounder in the late 2nd round.
it makes us feel warm all over :lmao:
 

waldoputty

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sparq chart did the work for us and there is a reason why some teams think hill > wilkins.
furthermore, players like williams, tillery and wilkins in big time programs probably have their bodies optimized already.
in contrast, players like hill and saunders have additional upside from weight training and diet improvements.
in terms of production, hill played in less than 50% of snaps.
it would be reasonable to believe he could have played an additional 15% or so without significant loss of efficiency - as he received only the 4th most snaps for dls in his team.
with the same efficiency, that would take him to the boundary between the a quad and the b quad already - close to where tillery and williams are.
also the spectre of not starting for ucf is probably even worse especially when he was the best dl.
his head coach likely really screwed him out of lots of $.

dt_2019.jpg
 
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Proof

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Guys, he's not a 1st round talent. If he were, his attitude wouldn't even matter. If he were a first round talent, teams would have overlooked it. Too many examples of idiots getting drafted in the first round with way worse attitudes. He might develop into a pretty solid player Hill is not a First Round talent IMO.

Still, it doesn't mean that he can't develop into a pretty nice player for us. He does have some tools.

I honestly don't have an opinion either way, but this is a very simplistic argument. plenty of first round talents slip out of the first round every year.

just this year Byron Murphy, Jawan Taylor, Greedy etc etc.
 

Bullflop

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yes, but we are trying to convince ourselves that we got a 1st rounder in the late 2nd round.
it makes us feel warm all over :lmao:

My brutha, it warms my old heart just to be knowing I'm a Cowboys fan!
I got a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing we got Trysten Hill at all. :grin:
 
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cnuball21

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I'm not selling him short at all!!! I love the kid!!! You just don't find DT's w/ his type of explosion.

I simply recognize that he does have some bust potential. It's ok to like/love a player and still be able to recognize his downside.

I think he can be a great nickel rusher, but just don’t know if he will have the anchor to be an everyday down player.

That’s why I was unhappy with the selection.
 
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