Should Cowboys run Zeke like they did Murray in 2014?

eromeopolk

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Is not the role of a running back is to run the ball.

Murray went on to a pro bowl season with the Titans and another $1K season after Philly borrowed him from the Cowboys to wreck the Cowboys season. So if Zeke can run then let him run.

After 2014, Jerry the Dumbo GM should have franchised Murray, signed Bryant, who has shown he was not going anywhere, and the Cowboys might have had a good shot in 2015 keeping that team together.

Zeke is a running back so run him. Ohio St. did it and it worked out well for O:
Ohio State running back Ezekiel Elliott ran 36 times for 246 yards, breaking a National Championship record stretching back a decade, in Ohio State's 42-20 victory over Oregon Monday night. Elliott broke the record held by Vince Young, who ran for 200 against USC in 2005; he also broke the Ohio State record for rushing yards in a bowl game, surpassing Raymont Harris's 235-yard performance against BYU 22 years ago.

Elliott averaged an absurd 6.8 yards per carry and scored four touchdowns in the process.
Ezekiel Elliott: 1st Ohio State player with 220 rush yds, 3 rush TD in a game since Raymont Harris (1993 vs BYU, 235 yds, 3 TD)

Monday's National Championship Game marked Elliott's third consecutive game with more than 220 yards on the ground, giving him a combined total of 696 yards against Wisconsin, Alabama, and Oregon. The insanity of that stat is not lost on the world.
 
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xwalker

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I understand all that xwalker. I know how the cap works.

But I’m also being honest about how the cowboys typically structure their contracts.

If you ride Zeke out for the last two years and then franchise him. You have him for 3 more seasons. And that is assuming he doesn’t decide to hold out and cause any issues. But then you will be forced to either let Zeke walk. Or extend him at a point in time when he only has 2 years of elite production left.

If you resign him now. You will pay him more over the next 3 seasons, than you would without re-signing him. But you could have him locked up for 5 more seasons, which are likely to be the last 5 before his production nosedives. By the last two years of his deal, Zeke likely isn’t the highest paid RB anymore either.


So the option seems to be. Keep Zeke for 3 years at a cheaper rate. But then be forced to either let him
Walk and miss out on 2 years of elite production. Or resign him to a contract that will then last until an age where he is on the decline and not producing at an elite level. And thus you are overpaying him
Relative to his production.

Or pay more money over the next 3 years. But have Zeke locked up for the remaining 5 years of likely elite production. And then be done with his contract at around the exact time you can expect his decline to start. Locking him up long term now also removes the possible risk of him deciding to holdout and force your hand at an earlier date as well.

If Zeke holds out next offseason or the season you try franchising him. Then he forces your hand to either let him walk, or sign him long term and have the back end of that contract take place in years after you expect his production to decline. Thus likely leading to future dead money against the cap. Sign him now and you will pay a bit more upfront. But likely create a scenario where you avoid any dead money at all, because he is producing for the entire length of the contract.

I think that you are saying you would prefer option 2 below.

R: Rookie Contract.
N: New Contract.
Age: For game 1 of that year.

Option 1: Re-sign in 2021
Year .... Age . Contract
2019 .... 24 .... R4
2020 .... 25 .... R5 (option)
2021 .... 26 .... N1
2022 .... 27 .... N2
2023 .... 28 .... N3
2024 .... 29 .... N4
2025 .... 30 .... N5
2026 .... 31
2028 .... 32

Option 2: Re-sign Now
Year .... Age . Contract
2019 .... 24 .... N1
2020 .... 25 .... N2
2021 .... 26 .... N3
2022 .... 27 .... N4
2023 .... 28 .... N5
2024 .... 29
2025 .... 30
2026 .... 31
2028 .... 32

Option 3: Re-sign in 2021 and Franchise
Year .... Age . Contract
2019 .... 24 .... R4
2020 .... 25 .... R5 (option)
2021 .... 26 .... Franchise
2022 .... 27 .... Franchise (20% increase)
2023 .... 28 .... Franchise (Avg of top 5 QBs AAV)
2024 .... 29
2025 .... 30
2026 .... 31
2028 .... 32
 

HungryLion

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I think that you are saying you would prefer option 2 below.

R: Rookie Contract.
N: New Contract.
Age: For game 1 of that year.

Option 1: Re-sign in 2021
Year .... Age . Contract
2019 .... 24 .... R4
2020 .... 25 .... R5 (option)
2021 .... 26 .... N1
2022 .... 27 .... N2
2023 .... 28 .... N3
2024 .... 29 .... N4
2025 .... 30 .... N5
2026 .... 31
2028 .... 32

Option 2: Re-sign Now
Year .... Age . Contract
2019 .... 24 .... N1
2020 .... 25 .... N2
2021 .... 26 .... N3
2022 .... 27 .... N4
2023 .... 28 .... N5
2024 .... 29
2025 .... 30
2026 .... 31
2028 .... 32

Option 3: Re-sign in 2021 and Franchise
Year .... Age . Contract
2019 .... 24 .... R4
2020 .... 25 .... R5 (option)
2021 .... 26 .... Franchise
2022 .... 27 .... Franchise (20% increase)
2023 .... 28 .... Franchise (Avg of top 5 QBs AAV)
2024 .... 29
2025 .... 30
2026 .... 31
2028 .... 32


That’s a good breakdown. Yeah I’m an option 2 guy.
 

xwalker

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That’s a good breakdown. Yeah I’m an option 2 guy.
I would split the difference.

Re-sign Zeke in 2020.

The 5th year of a 5 year contract won't be guaranteed.

They could cut him before the 5th year when he would be 29.
 

blueblood70

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I think that you are saying you would prefer option 2 below.

R: Rookie Contract.
N: New Contract.
Age: For game 1 of that year.

Option 1: Re-sign in 2021
Year .... Age . Contract
2019 .... 24 .... R4
2020 .... 25 .... R5 (option)
2021 .... 26 .... N1
2022 .... 27 .... N2
2023 .... 28 .... N3
2024 .... 29 .... N4
2025 .... 30 .... N5
2026 .... 31
2028 .... 32

Option 2: Re-sign Now
Year .... Age . Contract
2019 .... 24 .... N1
2020 .... 25 .... N2
2021 .... 26 .... N3
2022 .... 27 .... N4
2023 .... 28 .... N5
2024 .... 29
2025 .... 30
2026 .... 31
2028 .... 32

Option 3: Re-sign in 2021 and Franchise
Year .... Age . Contract
2019 .... 24 .... R4
2020 .... 25 .... R5 (option)
2021 .... 26 .... Franchise
2022 .... 27 .... Franchise (20% increase)
2023 .... 28 .... Franchise (Avg of top 5 QBs AAV)
2024 .... 29
2025 .... 30
2026 .... 31
2028 .... 32
option 2 is best do it now start paying still 28 when its over and he can be cut..seems like no brainer given hes not imjury prone BUT the amount is the issue no way I pay him TG money that was mistake by all, but Bell money YES zeke deserves that and I believe he will earn it
 

joseephuss

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Murray led the NFL in rushing in 2014 with a league leading 1,845 yards and had a whopping 449 total touches for the year, which also led the league. Murray had that great 2014 season at the age of 26...and he was never the same after it. 2014 was Murray’s “contract year”, and the Cowboys famously decided eventually that he would not be worth paying market value long term, so Murray left after 5 very productive seasons

Was Murray ever the same prior to 2014? He showed flashes and promise, but due to injury never became a dependable running back. He was productive, but not monstrous as in 2014. His second best rushing and yards-from-scrimmage totals came in 2016 with the Titans at age 28. Elliott is only 24.
 

TexasBoys2288

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Should the Cowboys top brass consider running Zeke Elliott like they did DeMarco Murray in 2014- Murray’s last great year as a Cowboy?

Murray led the NFL in rushing in 2014 with a league leading 1,845 yards and had a whopping 449 total touches for the year, which also led the league. Murray had that great 2014 season at the age of 26...and he was never the same after it. 2014 was Murray’s “contract year”, and the Cowboys famously decided eventually that he would not be worth paying market value long term, so Murray left after 5 very productive seasons

The Cowboys have an interesting crossroads coming with Ezekiel Elliott after the 2020 season. Sign him to a bigger long term deal, franchise tag him (which didn’t work out well with Pitts when they tagged LeVeon Bell) or just let him walk to some other team.

I know many here will disagree with me but I’m in favor of the letting him walk option. And here are my reasons in no particular order of importance:
  • His off field behavior placed this team’s ability to count on his services in jeopardy in 2017 and maybe again this coming season. That suspension in 2017 cost this team dearly. (The most important ability a player must have is availability to play) If Zeke doesn’t grow up and stop acting like a spoiled frat brat, he’s not worth making a centerpiece to your team.
  • Although Zeke is very talented, a RBs talent fades faster than almost any other position player. Most really good RBs begin to show decline sometime after 5-8 seasons. It’s why most NFL teams don’t make the RB position worth a long term investment.
  • If a RB has a season like DeMarco Murray, where they have over 400 touches in a season, a drop off in production usually happens the following season. The 400+ touch season is historically a killer for the long term effectiveness of NFL RBs.
  • Remember Larry Johnson, Jamal Anderson, Terrell Davis, James Wilder, Eddie George? They all led the league in rushing with over 400 carries. And within a year or two fell off the performance cliff.
So let’s use Zeke over and over the next two years. Pile on the touches. Maximize his use. Ride him to a Super Bowl? Because at the end of his 5 years here, he may not be worth keeping around much longer anyway.

Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe he’s worth making a big cap commitment after 5 seasons. Maybe Zeke is an outlier. If he’s used like we did DeMarco Murray, NFL history says otherwise. (Is Todd Gurley going to be another example of the need to not make a big RB commitment?)

I respect dissenting opinions. Should we keep Zeke long term? Or should we let these next 2 years be his swan song?
Ride him hard like the stallion he is, franchise him if you have to.
 

Plumfool

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Zeke seems to be able to handle the work. I say sign him up for the next 5 years.
 

Johnny23

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Those are examples of decent successes. There are plenty of other examples of complete misses: Trent Richardson, Ryan Williams, Toby Gerhardt, Montee Ball, Bishop Sankey. All of those are first- or second-round picks mentioned on one site (through 2016). There are more I could look up.

I agree, of course, that it is not out of the realm of possibility to find a good to great one, which is why you keep drafting RBs. It just seems to be an expectation of many that you can just simply let Elliott go and replace him. If it was that simple no team would ever give elite running backs a second contract.
Absolutely, I agree with you that it's not as easy as some people make it out to be. Those I listed are really best case scenarios. I just eer on the side or caution with Zeke and his off the field issues.
 

CF74

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He gets the Lion's Share unless he's injured or the win is in the bag...
 

buybuydandavis

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Should the Cowboys top brass consider running Zeke Elliott like they did DeMarco Murray in 2014- Murray’s last great year as a Cowboy?

Murray led the NFL in rushing in 2014 with a league leading 1,845 yards and had a whopping 449 total touches for the year, which also led the league. Murray had that great 2014 season at the age of 26...and he was never the same after it. 2014 was Murray’s “contract year”, and the Cowboys famously decided eventually that he would not be worth paying market value long term, so Murray left after 5 very productive seasons

The Cowboys have an interesting crossroads coming with Ezekiel Elliott after the 2020 season. Sign him to a bigger long term deal, franchise tag him (which didn’t work out well with Pitts when they tagged LeVeon Bell) or just let him walk to some other team.

I know many here will disagree with me but I’m in favor of the letting him walk option. And here are my reasons in no particular order of importance:
  • His off field behavior placed this team’s ability to count on his services in jeopardy in 2017 and maybe again this coming season. That suspension in 2017 cost this team dearly. (The most important ability a player must have is availability to play) If Zeke doesn’t grow up and stop acting like a spoiled frat brat, he’s not worth making a centerpiece to your team.
  • Although Zeke is very talented, a RBs talent fades faster than almost any other position player. Most really good RBs begin to show decline sometime after 5-8 seasons. It’s why most NFL teams don’t make the RB position worth a long term investment.
  • If a RB has a season like DeMarco Murray, where they have over 400 touches in a season, a drop off in production usually happens the following season. The 400+ touch season is historically a killer for the long term effectiveness of NFL RBs.
  • Remember Larry Johnson, Jamal Anderson, Terrell Davis, James Wilder, Eddie George? They all led the league in rushing with over 400 carries. And within a year or two fell off the performance cliff.
So let’s use Zeke over and over the next two years. Pile on the touches. Maximize his use. Ride him to a Super Bowl? Because at the end of his 5 years here, he may not be worth keeping around much longer anyway.

Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe he’s worth making a big cap commitment after 5 seasons. Maybe Zeke is an outlier. If he’s used like we did DeMarco Murray, NFL history says otherwise. (Is Todd Gurley going to be another example of the need to not make a big RB commitment?)

I respect dissenting opinions. Should we keep Zeke long term? Or should we let these next 2 years be his swan song?

Walk or no walk, I want Zeke to have juice for the playoffs.

1/4 of a step more and Murray doesn't fumble and we likely beat GB.

We should be riding the *oline*, not Zeke. Run, run, and run again. But not just with Zeke. If we only rely on Zeke running, we're not getting all the runs we can get out of our oline.

Run *other guys*. They of course aren't as good as Zeke, but with Zeke on the field, they don't have to be. Zeke takes pressure off them. And they take pressure off Zeke too.

I give Zeke *tons* of snaps, but fewer touches. We get value from Zeke simply being on the field as a threat.

From the players we've signed, it really looks like Moore *intends* to be a multi threat run offense. We've signed Austin, Olawale, Pollard, and Cobb. All guys who can run the ball too. If we weren't signing with the intention to run them, we were picking the wrong players.

Our goal should not be to use up Zeke. It should be to use *everyone* in the most productive way to bring a championship. Simply piling on the touches for Zeke just isn't the best way to use Zeke, or everyone else we've got.

As for contracts, I can see moving on from Zeke. Few RBs have real juice for more than 5 or 6 seasons.

Look what McFadden was able to do. Even the Underwear Thief. When we signed Zeke, what was supposed to make him special were WR quality receiving skills. I haven't seen that yet. We should be churning credible power running backs to see if we can land one on the cheap. I just don't see that you have to spend that much on a RB.

But there is one thing we probably should do for Zeke. My understanding is that Zeke's suspension unguaranteed his rookie contract. That should be remedied. Maybe we give him a faux extension with an easy out for us in year 6 or 7. But no big boost in salary over his rookie contract. He's paid like a top pick, and he's playing like one. There's little justification for a bigger contract.
 

buybuydandavis

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The money that would go to Elliott in a new contract needs to be put in the run game but up front, not in the RB. The OL is the single most important element of any team, even as important as the QB because they make everything work.

We might be good on the oline for years to come. I think we could actually cut salary this year with Collins, move Williams to RT, start McGovern at LG, and have our starting oline set for the next *3 years*.

As for spending on offensive skills players, which is better?
1) Dak w/o Cooper and Zeke
2) Cooper and Zeke w/o Dak

Because those are comparable money.

Our offense doesn't rely on Dak to carry the team. How hard is it to find a durable running QB with at least Dak's relatively limited accuracy?

People talk about churning running backs, but I'd be interested in seeing us try to churn running QBs. We've got the offense for it. And 30mil is a whole lotta money to make the rest of the team better.
 

buybuydandavis

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Zeke seems to be able to handle the work. I say sign him up for the next 5 years.

Not what the history of the league shows. If anything, given how Zeke doesn't avoid contact, and even seeks it out, the odds are even more against him lasting a long time than the league historical trend.
 

DuncanIso

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I think that you are saying you would prefer option 2 below.

R: Rookie Contract.
N: New Contract.
Age: For game 1 of that year.

Option 1: Re-sign in 2021
Year .... Age . Contract
2019 .... 24 .... R4
2020 .... 25 .... R5 (option)
2021 .... 26 .... N1
2022 .... 27 .... N2
2023 .... 28 .... N3
2024 .... 29 .... N4
2025 .... 30 .... N5
2026 .... 31
2028 .... 32

Option 2: Re-sign Now
Year .... Age . Contract
2019 .... 24 .... N1
2020 .... 25 .... N2
2021 .... 26 .... N3
2022 .... 27 .... N4
2023 .... 28 .... N5
2024 .... 29
2025 .... 30
2026 .... 31
2028 .... 32

Option 3: Re-sign in 2021 and Franchise
Year .... Age . Contract
2019 .... 24 .... R4
2020 .... 25 .... R5 (option)
2021 .... 26 .... Franchise
2022 .... 27 .... Franchise (20% increase)
2023 .... 28 .... Franchise (Avg of top 5 QBs AAV)
2024 .... 29
2025 .... 30
2026 .... 31
2028 .... 32

Option 2 is the only one that will work.

Zeke can hold out, just like Emmitt in 93, and demand a new deal.

We are lucky he showed up for OTA's.
 

Idgit

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This is why I didn’t want a RB at 4 overall. Now we’ve got a tough call to make.
 

HungryLion

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Not what the history of the league shows. If anything, given how Zeke doesn't avoid contact, and even seeks it out, the odds are even more against him lasting a long time than the league historical trend.

The history shows he has 5 more elite years left. And then the decline will happen either rapidly or quickly.

But elite RB’s tend to remain elite until 28 years old.
 

buybuydandavis

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The history shows he has 5 more elite years left. And then the decline will happen either rapidly or quickly.

But elite RB’s tend to remain elite until 28 years old.

Last time I looked it was like 5-6 bell cow seasons. I don't think Zeke gets an extra year or two for starting his career at 21. Mileage is mileage. And he's a power runner who gets a lot of short yardage carries and doesn't shy from contact. The odds are against him.
 

xwalker

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Should the Cowboys top brass consider running Zeke Elliott like they did DeMarco Murray in 2014- Murray’s last great year as a Cowboy?

Murray led the NFL in rushing in 2014 with a league leading 1,845 yards and had a whopping 449 total touches for the year, which also led the league. Murray had that great 2014 season at the age of 26...and he was never the same after it. 2014 was Murray’s “contract year”, and the Cowboys famously decided eventually that he would not be worth paying market value long term, so Murray left after 5 very productive seasons

The Cowboys have an interesting crossroads coming with Ezekiel Elliott after the 2020 season. Sign him to a bigger long term deal, franchise tag him (which didn’t work out well with Pitts when they tagged LeVeon Bell) or just let him walk to some other team.

I know many here will disagree with me but I’m in favor of the letting him walk option. And here are my reasons in no particular order of importance:
  • His off field behavior placed this team’s ability to count on his services in jeopardy in 2017 and maybe again this coming season. That suspension in 2017 cost this team dearly. (The most important ability a player must have is availability to play) If Zeke doesn’t grow up and stop acting like a spoiled frat brat, he’s not worth making a centerpiece to your team.
  • Although Zeke is very talented, a RBs talent fades faster than almost any other position player. Most really good RBs begin to show decline sometime after 5-8 seasons. It’s why most NFL teams don’t make the RB position worth a long term investment.
  • If a RB has a season like DeMarco Murray, where they have over 400 touches in a season, a drop off in production usually happens the following season. The 400+ touch season is historically a killer for the long term effectiveness of NFL RBs.
  • Remember Larry Johnson, Jamal Anderson, Terrell Davis, James Wilder, Eddie George? They all led the league in rushing with over 400 carries. And within a year or two fell off the performance cliff.
So let’s use Zeke over and over the next two years. Pile on the touches. Maximize his use. Ride him to a Super Bowl? Because at the end of his 5 years here, he may not be worth keeping around much longer anyway.

Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe he’s worth making a big cap commitment after 5 seasons. Maybe Zeke is an outlier. If he’s used like we did DeMarco Murray, NFL history says otherwise. (Is Todd Gurley going to be another example of the need to not make a big RB commitment?)

I respect dissenting opinions. Should we keep Zeke long term? Or should we let these next 2 years be his swan song?
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/comp-pick-value-franchised-player-trades.435294/
 
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