2 high priced DE's

[Batman1980]

Guys.

I don't think Jerry Jones or Jason Garrett or even the "everyone hates us but us!" national perception is why this board is so negative all the time. It's you, all of you, you do it to yourselves. This offseason I've seen these threads:

1. Dak as the odds-on comeback player of the year favorite
2. Dak being mentioned as league MVP
3. Michael Gallup, Ceedee Lamb, Amari Cooper all expected to have big breakout years.
4. Ezekiel Elliot is returning to rookie form, league leader in rushing.
5. People have said the O-line once again becoming one of the best (if not THE BEST) in the league
6. Many times, the perception is Dan Quinn making your defense top 10, despite no major additions beyond some rookies. 27th to 10th overnight. the worst run d to one of the best due to the scheme change. Or because you brought in the 2 safeties from the league's worst pass defense in Atlanta (yes really) for a combined 5m$.
7. Micah Parsons battling Jabril Cox for defensive player of the year
8. One guy even said, "There isn't a defense in the league who can hold dallas under 40". I was chastised for disputing it, despite no team IN NFL HISTORY scoring more than 37 ppg. Dallas even in 2019 when they led the league in yards only scored 26 ppg. But now no one will hold them under 40.
9. And now this. Not top 3 on the team in sacks, not top 3 in the division, not even an impressive double digit sack season. He's going to be top 3 in the entire NFL in sacks, despite being drafted 7 seasons ago and alotting 10.5 for that whole span.

How many of your starters won't make the NFC pro bowl roster this year? 5? less?


Injuries, bad decisions, lack of commitment, time away... these arent excuses for why he only has 10.5 sacks so far, those are REASONS he doesn't. Reasons he's a fringe starter at this point for the Cowboys. But now he has "a shot" at being top 3 in the world. Let's look at the two guys who would have then been above him if he'd done it in previous 6 seasons:

2020: If Randy Gregory placed third in sacks, he'd be behind only TJ Watt and Aaron Donald
2019: the two guys he'd be chasing to end up third had 19.0 and 19.5 sacks. Demarcus Lawrence, Khalil Mack, even Von Miller have never had sack totals this high in their life.
2018: JJ Watt and Aaron Donald, who led the league with 20.5
2017: Vic Beasley, Von Miller
2016: JJ Watt, Khalil Mack
2015: Justin Houston, JJ Watt (both had over 20 sacks)

So the argument here is that for the last 6 seasons, on your bench or in your doghouse you've had the next Chandler Jones, the next Von Miller, the next JJ Watt on your roster. He has "a real shot" at exceeding the best seasons Khalil Mack, Frank Clark, Myles Garrett, even Robert Mathis have ever had. This is why there's so many fights on this board, so much angst. Even the most positive posters set themselves up for failure. Is it technically possible Randy Gregory is the sack champ? Sure. It's technically possible he gets 40 sacks. But with all the things Dallas is expected to do this season, it's half expected you find a way to get more than 17 wins in your 17 games. If you go around to other boards, you'll find optimism, but nothing as nuts as this. It's almost as if people here feel the NFL owes you something, that you deserve these things. That these players will be better simply because they play for Dallas as opposed to Miami or Seattle or Cleveland.

And now Randy Gregory is about to be one of the greatest pass rushers on planet Earth.

Not Dee Ford. Move over Danielle Hunter. The Chase Young era is over before it even began...

Not a pro bowl year, not 12+ sacks. We're talking first or second team all pro, 16, 17, 18+ sack season to line up with the top 3 of previous years. When people talk about the greatest season a Dallas Cowboy edge has ever had, they'll bring up Demarcus Ware 2008, Demarcus Ware 2011, and Randy Gregory 2021.

Randy... Gregory

It's not holding your team to a higher standard, it's you guys setting your own fanbase up for another bitter 2022 offseason.

The chances that Randy even has 12 sacks this season are quite low, never mind in the 20 sack conversation.

 

[dsturgeon]

Not a cap expert by any means but the way its anticipated to go up combined with taking different cap hits at different times make me believe we can re-sign anyone we cant stomach losing.

Gallup for example would be awesome to retain, but its probably irresponsible to do so when we have so much tied up in Coop and Lamb. We can stomach the loss because of our other weapons.

Dlaw is signed for 3 or 4 more years, but their might be outs in his contract. That brings in interesting scenarios as well. I like Dlaw, but If they can only have one high priced DE, to me L DE is more valuable than R DE

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

The chances that Randy even has 12 sacks this season are quite low, never mind in the 20 sack conversation.

I like Randy, I don't think it's out of the blue for him to at least get double digit if Demarcus is commanding doubles and shifting the Oline focus his direction. But yeah, going to the extreme end of it is another thing entirely

 

[dsturgeon]

I like Randy, I don't think it's out of the blue for him to at least get double digit if Demarcus is commanding doubles and shifting the Oline focus his direction. But yeah, going to the extreme end of it is another thing entirely

If teams are in shooting matches with cowboys offense, it will help as well

 

[HungryLion]

The cowboys will have the chance to restructure some contracts. And the chance to cut some guys, in order to get under the cap and create space.

Gregory will be affordable “if” they are willing to pay the price.

I honestly don’t see him getting a massive deal. I don’t see how teams will trust him. He may get a heavily incentive laden deal though.

we shall see.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Not a cap expert by any means but the way its anticipated to go up combined with taking different cap hits at different times make me believe we can re-sign anyone we cant stomach losing.

Gallup for example would be awesome to retain, but its probably irresponsible to do so when we have so much tied up in Coop and Lamb. We can stomach the loss because of our other weapons.

There is a TON of money you could open up by just a few moves:

Trading Dlaw after June 1st next year will save you 19m$ on the salary cap(!). Amari would be a cool 20m in savings. Even Zeke could save you 12.4, only a 4m$ cap hit. Heck, you could even drop Dak next offseason and save 20 m, only 13m cap hit. Not that that one has any merit, but you have a bunch of different options to acquire crazy money. And then factor in that a big longterm deal should have a smaller cap hit year 1.

 

[Batman1980]

I like Randy, I don't think it's out of the blue for him to at least get double digit if Demarcus is commanding doubles and shifting the Oline focus his direction. But yeah, going to the extreme end of it is another thing entirely

We really need our defensive tackles to step up and to have at least one other DE who can at least give Lawrence and Gregory a blow.

 

[Maxmadden]

WR and DE is the same conversation. Gregory and Gallup's contracts are up at the same time. Cooper and lamb are signed for 4 more years. L DE is a major position. If they can't pay L DE then maybe there is money for gallup.

I agree but Gregory has basically disappointed every season so far since he was drafted. I have always rooted for the guy but I can't see him breaking out with astronomical numbers. Even if he did there won't be teams standing in line to sign him. He will stick with Jerry.

No team is going to pay him millions of dollars and upend his environment to move to another city where he is basically starting over. Too much risk.

 

[dsturgeon]

I agree but Gregory has basically disappointed every season so far since he was drafted. I have always rooted for the guy but I can't see him breaking out with astronomical numbers. Even if he did there won't be teams standing in line to sign him. He will stick with Jerry.

No team is going to pay him millions of dollars and upend his environment to move to another city where he is basically starting over. Too much risk.

maybe, but his risk is no longer against league policy

 

[kskboys]

I agree but Gregory has basically disappointed every season so far since he was drafted. I have always rooted for the guy but I can't see him breaking out with astronomical numbers. Even if he did there won't be teams standing in line to sign him. He will stick with Jerry.

No team is going to pay him millions of dollars and upend his environment to move to another city where he is basically starting over. Too much risk.

I just hope someone has introduced him to pot gummies to keep the smoke out of his lungs.

 

[fivetwos]

maybe, but his risk is no longer against league policy

I posted the same stuff around draft time hoping we might get ahead of this problem.

By and large, folks aren't interested. It's year to year thinking....quite like management.

Plug whatever hole we had last year (unless it's safety) every year. Ahead of nothing.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Dlaw is signed for 3 or 4 more years, but their might be outs in his contract. That brings in interesting scenarios as well. I like Dlaw, but If they can only have one high priced DE, to me L DE is more valuable than R DE

I would not place money on Lawrence being on the team after this season. His cap hit next year is $27M with a $19M salary. Cut him post June 1st and he counts $8M dead in 2022 and $11M in dead cap in 2023 with $19M in cap savings for 2022.

Team could easily move on from him next year.

 

[nalam]

Randy Gregorys contract is up after this year.

It is an assumption that he will have a monster year, but I think he will. The pretense of the thread is that Gregory is top 3 or so in sacks. The cowboys are paying a high priced DE, QB, WR, LB'er, and offensive tackles.
rt

I hope Randy comes on fully and realize the potential this year , but having a monster year ( like Top 3 in sacks ) may be difficult , because there is going to be rotations in that R- DE position, Basham , Randy , Armstrong , Anae , Gholston are all vying for that spot , not to mention, in some packages , Parson would be coming from that side as pass rusher.


Just my opinion.

 

[Creeper]

Randy Gregorys contract is up after this year.

It is an assumption that he will have a monster year, but I think he will. The pretense of the thread is that Gregory is top 3 or so in sacks. The cowboys are paying a high priced DE, QB, WR, LB'er, and offensive tackles.

1. Can the cowboys have 2 high priced DE's
2. For people who know the cap, do they currently have the money to sign him
3. If the cowboys sign Gregory, what major players can't they sign
4. If they do sign him, I am assuming that will mean cheap contracts and league minimums at a lot of positions. Do you think the cowboys have filled their roster holes well, and have they done well with all the young guys on their team

As far as the money and cap issues on this thread, if you don't know the books and the cap, don't answer that part

The problem is Lawrence and what they paid him after he had 1 good year. If Gregory has a monster year why wouldn't his agent ask for what Lawrence got? Of course the Cowboys cannot pay both DE $21 million, and I am sure they won't even try. The Packers signed two DE, the Smiths, the same year and paid them each $16.5 million. Both played as well as or better than Lawrence.

If Gregory has a good year and Lawrence repeats his sub 6 sack performance, I think it will be Lawrence who is gone in 2022 and Gregory who gets the new contract.

 

[garyo1954]

I posted the same stuff around draft time hoping we might get ahead of this problem.

By and large, folks aren't interested. It's year to year thinking....quite like management.

Plug whatever hole we had last year (unless it's safety) every year. Ahead of nothing.

Jerry's ahead of the game thinking is what got us here.
Elliott for $90M?
Lawrence $105M?
Smith $68.5M?

Elliott is a great back, but he's not a $90M player in the position with the shortest lifespan in the NFL.
Has Lawrence really earned that much?
Smith........

Jerry is paying these guys above the league average on what he hopes they will do.
And while he's ahead of the pay scale, he's not doing the team any favors.
And that's why we're $22million in the hole going into 2022.

 

[Maxmadden]

maybe, but his risk is no longer against league policy

But his risk ain't that he smokes pot. His risk is why he could never stop.

Couldn't quit even for millions of dollars.

 

[waving monkey]

You guys are worried about things that are happening after this upcoming season. Its like with Aldon Smith last year...everyone thought he was playing himself into a big deal...now he left and no one really cared. If Gregory has a bad year or gets hurt....nothing to worry about.

maybe so but is that fun

 

[speedkilz88]

I hope Randy comes on fully and realize the potential this year , but having a monster year ( like Top 3 in sacks ) may be difficult , because there is going to be rotations in that R- DE position, Basham , Randy , Armstrong , Anae , Gholston are all vying for that spot , not to mention, in some packages , Parson would be coming from that side as pass rusher.


Just my opinion.

Basham & Anae are really the only two that fit the right edge, we'll see if Parsons is anything more than a blitzer. You can throw Armstrong in there but we've seen him for three years, he just doesn't have the juice. Gholston is a 5t/4i LE who can kick inside, you can throw him over there on the right but it's just not his strength either. I'd throw Tank over there first.

 

[Creeper]

The salary cap will make a huge increase next year. Cowboys got this.

The 2022 salary cap maximum will be just over $208 million. That is the highest it can go. As of now, the Cowboys are about $19 million over that number with the players they have under contract. If for any reason the salary cap comes in under the $208 million number the problem only gets worse for Dallas.

 

[Kingofholland]

Randy Gregorys contract is up after this year.

It is an assumption that he will have a monster year, but I think he will. The pretense of the thread is that Gregory is top 3 or so in sacks. The cowboys are paying a high priced DE, QB, WR, LB'er, and offensive tackles.

1. Can the cowboys have 2 high priced DE's
2. For people who know the cap, do they currently have the money to sign him
3. If the cowboys sign Gregory, what major players can't they sign
4. If they do sign him, I am assuming that will mean cheap contracts and league minimums at a lot of positions. Do you think the cowboys have filled their roster holes well, and have they done well with all the young guys on their team

As far as the money and cap issues on this thread, if you don't know the books and the cap, don't answer that part

Many teams around the NFL would have him off their list due to red flags. It would be hard to value him even if he did ball out, but still likely looking at a short term deal. I also think we're jumping the gun a bit on expectations though. Gregory is a quick twitch player, but has been away so many times its hard to understand his ceiling. If he posts 8 sacks I would consider the season a big success for him, but that won't generate a big contract.