2 Questions For the Zoners Who Want to Let Moore Go

[BoyzBlaster]

Pure made up bs.

What is?

 

[BoyzBlaster]

The problem is Junior's "situational" play calling....3rd down routes short of the sticks with patterns designed with no ability for YAC....and in general, his route trees are TERRIBLE!!! But in fairness to Junior, Mannix told y'all in August how pathetic this group of WR's was....only a couple of you agreed at the time.

I'm constantly amazed that people think simple route trees are because of the limitations of the OC and not the limitations of QB.

 

[tunahelper]

For all the people who want to ditch Moore, help me understand. If you drop the Andy Dalton year, the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 4th,
1st and 6th in scoring. For those 3 years combined, the Cowboys are 2nd in scoring only behind KC.
The OC accomplished this with a QB that everyone but those completely in the tank for Dak agrees has fatal limitations, torpedoed
our post season this year with turnovers, and ended our post season last year with the stupidest in game decision I've seen since.....well ever.

Seems like the obvious problem is the QB not the OC, and if anything this OC has over achieved.

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?
2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC
will be worse not better?

Because KM doesn't adapt well enough to Dak's limitations, especially against higher level competition. I think his relationship with Dak interferes with his ability to judge Dak's deficiencies.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

What does this comment even mean?

Doesn't surprise me you don't understand

 

[BoyzBlaster]

And, at this point, it's worth a go. We've tried it Moore's way. Now we should try it Mike's way.

Is there a point where you'd say it's not the coaching, it's the QB? It's not like we haven't already been down the 'the coaching is the problem' road.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

Wait. I thought we had nothing but hot garbage jags other than Dak on offense. Or is it Dak sucks and everyone else is good. Or It's Moore that sucks, Dak is amazing and the others are jags but only on the second Tuesday of the month? Aww hell, I give up it's too much to keep up with.

I know. The rationalization/excuses keep changing depending upon what the topic or question is. It's like calling a phone tree - 'if the topic is Dak being injury prone, press one to blame the OC for Dak blowing the game tieing throw to Austin in the 2018 play in game against the Eagles. If the topic is Dak choking in the clutch blame that throw on an injury.'

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Is there a point where you'd say it's not the coaching, it's the QB? It's not like we haven't already been down the 'the coaching is the problem' road.

I know that part, but there's not really way to get rid of Dak until next offseason. So, if we want to try to salvage this next season, a change in OC can help.

 

[Whirlwin]

LOL and yet they have been the #2 offense in the league. Your comment doesn't pass the straight face test.

Imagine if they didn’t know what we were doing

 

[Rockport]

And yet they had the #2 offense in the league in the period I cited. The simple answer is the obvious answer - this has been an overwhelmingly productive offense (in the regular season at least), designed by someone who knows what he is doing and who is out performing his fellow OC's, and he knows more than your average internet poster.

Yes, thanks to the QB.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

Yes, thanks to the QB.

Well if they fire Moore you will get your wish and we shall see. Although the only certainty in all of this is that if it doesn't work out, the usual suspects will again point the finger at everything and everyone but the QB.

 

[morat1959]

It gets tiresome repeating the same examples of why Moore needs to go, when asked and then it goes ignored.
People don't want to discuss his shortcomings unless that can dump on Dak. They can't both have struggles here.

I've yet to hear ANYONE defend Moore's scheme, play calling, route concepts and gametime decisions.

Defending KM is easy…Dak.

 

[blueblood70]

The biggest misunderstanding about our offense is overrating statistical rankings. In the playoffs, defenses are WAY better. It’s nice to have an offense that racks up yards. But who cares about that when you can’t do it in the playoffs?
(My answers in italicized bold)
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished? A new OC could do two very important things to help:

• 1. Design the offense around Dak’s strengths, not his weaknesses. Moore’s offense is a spin-off of the offense designed for Tony Romo by Scott Linehan back around 2014.
• 2. This offense needs a ton of modernizing. This offense runs a ton of high school level passing routes. It’s why defenses laugh at how easy it is to cover. Dak could greatly benefit from a scheme with update route trees that scheme people open more than rely on the receiver to beat his man.

2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC will be worse not better?

• I disagree. In fact, hiring an OC with a more modern approach to the passing game could make things way easier for the passing game. Look at what the rams have done for years for their QBs and receivers. They have some very cleverly schemed routes that make it easier for everyone.
• Andy Reid’s offense is designed to scheme plays that put instant pressure on the defense in coverage by using lots of motion, movement and rolling the pocket. Dak isn’t Mahomes of course but he does pass well while on the move. Moving Dak around will help him a ton.

BOTTOM LINE: Forget the regular season stats. Look at the playoff stats the last 6 playoff games we’ve been in. That will tell us a ton about how outdated this offense is.

I agree with most of that for sure.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

The biggest misunderstanding about our offense is overrating statistical rankings. In the playoffs, defenses are WAY better. It’s nice to have an offense that racks up yards. But who cares about that when you can’t do it in the playoffs?
(My answers in italicized bold)
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished? A new OC could do two very important things to help:

• 1. Design the offense around Dak’s strengths, not his weaknesses. Moore’s offense is a spin-off of the offense designed for Tony Romo by Scott Linehan back around 2014.
• 2. This offense needs a ton of modernizing. This offense runs a ton of high school level passing routes. It’s why defenses laugh at how easy it is to cover. Dak could greatly benefit from a scheme with update route trees that scheme people open more than rely on the receiver to beat his man.

2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC will be worse not better?

• I disagree. In fact, hiring an OC with a more modern approach to the passing game could make things way easier for the passing game. Look at what the rams have done for years for their QBs and receivers. They have some very cleverly schemed routes that make it easier for everyone.
• Andy Reid’s offense is designed to scheme plays that put instant pressure on the defense in coverage by using lots of motion, movement and rolling the pocket. Dak isn’t Mahomes of course but he does pass well while on the move. Moving Dak around will help him a ton.

BOTTOM LINE: Forget the regular season stats. Look at the playoff stats the last 6 playoff games we’ve been in. That will tell us a ton about how outdated this offense is.

We are in total agreement about the beginning and ending of your post. Although you seem to have settled on the OC as the reason for our problems. Also note I said nothing about yards I was talking about scoring.

So my questions to you about your points under #1 would be:
1. How do you know that the offense isn't already designed to maximize Dak's strengths and minimize his weaknesses?
2. Assuming your point is correct about the offense being simple, have you considered this is because of the limitations of the QB not the OC, and that this is actually an example of Moore tailoring the offense to Dak's limitations? Isn't that the obvious answer, as opposed to Moore 'doesn't know how to do this'?

 

[Bobhaze]

We are in total agreement about the beginning and ending of your post. Although you seem to have settled on the OC as the reason for our problems. Also note I said nothing about yards I was talking about scoring.

So my questions to you about your points under #1 would be:
1. How do you know that the offense isn't already designed to maximize Dak's strengths and minimize his weaknesses?
2. Assuming your point is correct about the offense being simple, have you considered this is because of the limitations of the QB not the OC, and that this is actually an example of Moore tailoring the offense to Dak's limitations? Isn't that the obvious answer, as opposed to Moore 'doesn't know how to do this'?

IMO the biggest problem we have is a dysfunctional owner. I don’t see the current OC as the cause of all our problems. But I do believe since we‘re stuck with Dak for at least two more years, we need him to have:

• A more modern offense better suited to his skills
• A smaller role for Dak in the offense. (Less Dak, more running game)
• Which can be accomplished more easily by using the SF model. Put a lot of talent into the running game.

 

[Pass2Run]

For all the people who want to ditch Moore, help me understand. If you drop the Andy Dalton year, the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 4th,
1st and 6th in scoring. For those 3 years combined, the Cowboys are 2nd in scoring only behind KC.
The OC accomplished this with a QB that everyone but those completely in the tank for Dak agrees has fatal limitations, torpedoed
our post season this year with turnovers, and ended our post season last year with the stupidest in game decision I've seen since.....well ever.

Seems like the obvious problem is the QB not the OC, and if anything this OC has over achieved.

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?
2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC
will be worse not better?

Moore's worst call, which we don't even know was actually his call or Dak:s (the media should do its job to discover but hasn't), was calling a pass on 2nd and 2. At the very least, you want 3 there...

But how do we know Missing Maher even makes the kick, which was around the same distance as the 6 consecutive extra points missed in recent games, including in the game you're in?

Otherwise, if the goal is to score points, which it is, how do you blame anything on Moore for doing his job well enough to have a top offense in the league in spite of Dak?

There's a reason he got head coaching interviews..if he was so bad, the question is who is a better option?

Are you so sure that you're willing to risk reacting on impulse and replacing him with someone who might be a downgrade?

And for those who know better, are you willing to make the move simply to appease the fanbase who thinks one of the top coodinators in the league is terrible at his job?

 

[75boyz]

We are in total agreement about the beginning and ending of your post. Although you seem to have settled on the OC as the reason for our problems. Also note I said nothing about yards I was talking about scoring.

So my questions to you about your points under #1 would be:
1. How do you know that the offense isn't already designed to maximize Dak's strengths and minimize his weaknesses?
2. Assuming your point is correct about the offense being simple, have you considered this is because of the limitations of the QB not the OC, and that this is actually an example of Moore tailoring the offense to Dak's limitations? Isn't that the obvious answer, as opposed to Moore 'doesn't know how to do this'?

Yeah, right there with ya bro. After 7 years in the so called same simple offense with the same coordinator we are supposed to believe this QB is gonna hit the ground running and look like a whole new guy?

It's a prelude to "takes time to learn the new terminology, its a whole new system so we need to be patient...

Blah, blah, blah
You look up and the same QB has gotten you no further than the WC round in yr 3 and 4 with the new coordinator so you're left wondering we've changed, HCs, OCs, DCs, WRs, TEs, RBs, olinemen all in the name of Dak support. What else can possibly be done?

Well, to keep this bleeding to a minimum I'd say we draft one in '23, play him some or all and let Dak know new guy is the starter for '24 thus forcing Dak's no trade clause hand.

Surrendering for 2 more whole seasons to this contract is ridiculous.

Minimize being held hostage by this QBs contract to ONE season as your option.

jmo

 

[Zman5]

This narrative KM's offense had high ranking so it must not be him is similar to the crap Romo bashers said about JG. They said Romo sucked, and JG's offense was fine.

You know what else is similar? Both KM and JG's offense only did well when Dak was the QB for KM and when Romo was the QB for JG. If Dak and Romo sucked and the OC is fine, why would the offense take a dive when they were injured? Go look at the 2015 stats when Romo was out for most of the season and 2020 after Dak went down. It took a nosedive. Even this year when Rush was winning due to the defense, we were at the bottom in scoring and yards on offense.

So if Romo and Dak sucked and the OCs were fine, shouldn't the offense get better when they went out?

 

[CowboyFrog]

Exactly..................I am not sure why other posters seem to be struggling with this concept..............maybe I can repeat it simpler and slower, it aint that hard to understand.

Dak + Moore = SUCK

Dak not leaving = contract too big

Only option left = replace Moore

This needs to be pinned here... to the point and exactly correct. You pull the levers you can pull or you trash the cap and say goodbye to a defense that showed it can compete on the highest level.

 

[Captain-Crash]

who are we looking for in next year's draft and the year after?

 

[CowboyFrog]

who are we looking for in next year's draft and the year after?

Talking QB's or any player?