2 Questions For the Zoners Who Want to Let Moore Go

[BoyzBlaster]

That's not even close to being true.

So you agree then that Moore route concepts are trash and hinders the offense

Uh no. I was using your words in my reply to you.

 

[catiii]

So you are assuming the post season problems are with the design of the offense. So you really think the simple obvious answer is that the design of the offense works incredibly well in the regular season but flops in the post season? As opposed to the answer being the QB struggles against post season defenses?

The QB would struggle against a 2 lb Largemouth Bass.

 

[birdwells1]

For all the people who want to ditch Moore, help me understand. If you drop the Andy Dalton year, the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 4th,
1st and 6th in scoring. For those 3 years combined, the Cowboys are 2nd in scoring only behind KC.
The OC accomplished this with a QB that everyone but those completely in the tank for Dak agrees has fatal limitations, torpedoed
our post season this year with turnovers, and ended our post season last year with the stupidest in game decision I've seen since.....well ever.

Seems like the obvious problem is the QB not the OC, and if anything this OC has over achieved.

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?
2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC
will be worse not better?

The problem I see is personnel and option routes for wrs. The Cowboys and the Giants had the worse wr group out of all 8 teams last week and they scored a combined 19 points and are out of the playoffs. YOU NEED PLAYERS TO WIN THE SUPER BOWL. Getting rid of Cooper and not replacing him with someone of his caliber doesn’t bite you in the regular season against the Bears but in the playoffs it will. The last pass caught by a wr other than CeeDee was the first play of the second quarter, that 3 quarters of no production by your numbers 2,3,4 wrs.

Next, option routes. They require both the wr and the qb to read the defense the same way if they don’t then bad things could happen. If Dak doesn’t trust that the wr is reading the defense he’s not going to throw with anticipation. If the defense changes at the snap then indecision will occur. On the pass to Gallup both he and Dak were indecisive and that led to the interception. We need more plays with predetermined routes so the qb and the wrs can be on the same page.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

The problem I see is personnel and option routes for wrs. The Cowboys and the Giants had the worse wr group out of all 8 teams last week and they scored a combined 19 points and are out of the playoffs. YOU NEED PLAYERS TO WIN THE SUPER BOWL. Getting rid of Cooper and not replacing him with someone of his caliber doesn’t bite you in the regular season against the Bears but in the playoffs it will. The last pass caught by a wr other than CeeDee was the first play of the second quarter, that 3 quarters of no production by your numbers 2,3,4 wrs.

Next, option routes. They require both the wr and the qb to read the defense the same way if they don’t then bad things could happen. If Dak doesn’t trust that the wr is reading the defense he’s not going to throw with anticipation. If the defense changes at the snap then indecision will occur. On the pass to Gallup both he and Dak were indecisive and that led to the interception. We need more plays with predetermined routes so the qb and the wrs can be on the same page.

Agree 100% on Cooper. On your 2nd point, you are saying you'd let Moore go because he designs too many option routes?

 

[charron]

Pure made up bs.

 

[birdwells1]

Agree 100% on Cooper. On your 2nd point, you are saying you'd let Moore go because he designs too many option routes?

I just think that option route can lead to miscommunication between the qb and the wr that lead to interceptions. I would rather have 1 player (qb) that’s responsible for reading the defense than 2. Mike McCarthy is on record in saying that he hates option routes.

I would let Moore go due to him being a caller of plays rather than a game plan designer. He was too inexperienced to get this job, he should’ve learned under another season coordinator before getting this job. The Joneses want to be the ones who discover the next Tom Landry, they tried it with Garrett and you saw how long that failed experiment lasted.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

I just think that option route can lead to miscommunication between the qb and the wr that lead to interceptions. I would rather have 1 player (qb) that’s responsible for reading the defense than 2. Mike McCarthy is on record in saying that he hates option routes.

I would let Moore go due to him being a caller of plays rather than a game plan designer. He was too inexperienced to get this job, he should’ve learned under another season coordinator before getting this job. The Joneses want to be the ones who discover the next Tom Landry, they tried it with Garrett and you saw how long that failed experiment lasted.

I don't see how the inexperienced thing flies when the bottom line is he's outperforming virtually every other OC in scoring in the regular season, but perhaps you will get your wish and we will see.

 

[Established1971]

For all the people who want to ditch Moore, help me understand. If you drop the Andy Dalton year, the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 4th,
1st and 6th in scoring. For those 3 years combined, the Cowboys are 2nd in scoring only behind KC.
The OC accomplished this with a QB that everyone but those completely in the tank for Dak agrees has fatal limitations, torpedoed
our post season this year with turnovers, and ended our post season last year with the stupidest in game decision I've seen since.....well ever.

Seems like the obvious problem is the QB not the OC, and if anything this OC has over achieved.

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?
2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC
will be worse not better?

We've had a higher than usual amount of defensive touchdowns and also very short fields for the offense after turnovers the last few years. Points is a team thing. You should look at yards, the official stat. They have been lower when looking at yards per game, still good but not 4, 1 and 6.
Also the inability to get Dak to the next level has been a serious issue. Zeke's fall off, the struggles to determine who is the #2 WR, all these things point to a guy who can design plays but not deal with actual players at a championship level.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I agree with you, I have wanted Mike to call the plays since he was hired.

In my opinion, it was one of his strengths in GB, and we choose not to use it. Plain stupid to me.

What's it hurt to try? He's way more proven than Moore.

And, at this point, it's worth a go. We've tried it Moore's way. Now we should try it Mike's way.

 

[Gonzomandela01]

IDK my X's and O's as well as a lot of you guys but...

Why other teams WR and TE, even RB look to be so open and ours are fighting to get some sort of separation on every play? Is it scheme? San Fran makes it easy on Purdy and Philly on Hurts, yet it seems that we make it difficult on Dak. I believe, only by what my eyes tell me, that Dak has to wait a fraction of a second for WR to beat their man in a lot of plays and that leads to sacks and INTs.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

We've had a higher than usual amount of defensive touchdowns and also very short fields for the offense after turnovers the last few years. Points is a team thing. You should look at yards, the official stat. They have been lower when looking at yards per game, still good but not 4, 1 and 6.
Also the inability to get Dak to the next level has been a serious issue. Zeke's fall off, the struggles to determine who is the #2 WR, all these things point to a guy who can design plays but not deal with actual players at a championship level.

Yeah we are not going to agree that yards count more than points. Do you have something to back up your claim that the Cowboys have benefited more than other teams with defensive scores and short fields for those 3 years?
You are also assuming Dak has another level to get to right? Maybe he's reached his level?

 

[Established1971]

It's going to be hysterical around here when somebody else comes in and the offense ends up middle of the pack. The bellowing is going to be off the charts entertaining.

Moving on from Moore will not work

this post shows what your priorities are, and your maturity

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

For all the people who want to ditch Moore, help me understand. If you drop the Andy Dalton year, the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 4th,
1st and 6th in scoring. For those 3 years combined, the Cowboys are 2nd in scoring only behind KC.
The OC accomplished this with a QB that everyone but those completely in the tank for Dak agrees has fatal limitations, torpedoed
our post season this year with turnovers, and ended our post season last year with the stupidest in game decision I've seen since.....well ever.

Seems like the obvious problem is the QB not the OC, and if anything this OC has over achieved.

My 2 questions to the legion of Zoners who want to ditch Moore are:
1. Given Dak's liabilities, what exactly do you think a new OC will realistically accomplish that Moore hasn't already accomplished?
2. Given how profilic Moore's offenses have been compared to those of other OC's, do you realize it's likely that any offense under a new OC
will be worse not better?

I am not saying Dak is great or anything, but I am sure some anti-dakers, will do and argue I am defending Dak, which I am not. so be it

but 4 other QBs and offense sputters. badly. with Dak offense seems to be a lot better. but the scheme (or the QB), do really well in spots, are good against under manned teams and struggle against better Def. Coord. my biggest concern with Moore is his game management on offense. against GB, up 14, run game was working, he threw the ball 18 times in the 4th and ran it 8 times. I had similar complaints about play call in the interest of game management last year, first game of the year against tampa, despite the point output. his situational awareness is very bad. also, his scheme is not necessarily that good, its more of a Garrett/Linehan offnese relying on perfect execution as opposed to scheming players open, setting up the defense. Kurt Warner has brought that point up almost every time he has done an analysis about how the play design schemes into what defense is trying to do. I mean critical point of the game, needing a first down, he calls 4 curl routes at about the same depth and the defense was just sitting and waiting. again, needs perfect execution and some luck. how many WR screens do we have to live through. my kids and I call more than half the plays if they are a run, pass and which side we are going to run and I am by no means and NFL coach (or a college coach or a high school coach). imagine then the smart NFL players and DCs.

I never wanted moore as OC. I hated the fact that a coach with one year of coaching experience, zero experience in college, never having schemed or called a game in NFL, gets to hold the second most important position as a coach in NFL. Who is stupid enough to let that happen (stop, don't answer that). I said it when he was hired, he is green, that we have to live through him learning, getting schooled, and hopefully learn and make progress. he has made progress, but still badly struggles in critical times. we know Dak is not elite, and he needs help and better scheme to help him. Moore is not the right help. Moore, needs and Elite QB and that QB help him in game planning. we don't have an Elite QB and they don't grow on trees. now we can sit and complain, but what's the plan to replace Dak if he is not the QB....who you got? rush....that's where the conversation ends, and the thread gets moved to stupidity zone.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The only reason to change from Moore is we know how things currently are that Dak can’t get us over the jump so maybe a shakeup is what’s needed.

Kellen Moore is not the problem but what else can we do…

if you can't see Moore as part of the problem, then we might get slightly better, but not much better. Moore needs a strong Elite QB and without that his offense is always the same, good against undermanned teams. struggle against better teams, zero situational awareness.

and please tell me the ELite QB who we can go get

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

1. The Cowboys need a play caller who is better with situational football and giving different looks that fool the defense than Moore. The passing game mostly contained simple route trees and put too many receivers out on long developing routes in medium yardage situations. The running game needs to be emphasized so as to set up the passing attack (helps Dak). RBs getting short passes in space (helps Dak) are a dangerous element to an offense and will predicate how a defense runs coverage.

2. How much of Moore's offense success has been due to the talent on the field?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Given that we are stuck with Dak and this is the best he can do with him, he needs to find another job.

His play calling in obvious running situations is suspect. What the hell was he doing calling four wide on 4th and 1 in jacksonville? Why was he calling a pass play on 3rd and 2 in San Francisco. Why does he keep running these reverses that Net Zero yards? Why does he get cute in or near the red zone? Why does he keep bouncing Zeke to the outside when he doesn't have speed anymore?

why? it worked in Madden NFL. come on now

 

[mahoneybill]

Ho

How does his vaunted top scoring offense do when he goes up against a top defense? It’s easy to beat up on average or below average teams but when going against good to top defenses, it’s always the same result. Minimal scoring, bad play calls and turnovers. It’s his job to coach Dak up and call plays to beat top defenses. He has yet to do that. It’s time for a new OC

Well stated vs quality D’s....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Dak stats in 2 losses to SF in the playoffs (2021 & 2022):

46 of 80 57.5% Comp % 460 yards 2 td's 3 int's

So where in those stats is it Kellen's fault and not the fault of the choke artist QB????

Dak is not elite. we know that. everyone knows that, so I think you are late to the party trying to prove, Dak is not elite.

so the running game, in those two games, 93 yards total yards for 2.9 YPC by the Rbs.....
on the other side defensive run game, gave up 282 yards , show me a QB who won a game with his team giving up 170 yards rushing

so where in those stats its Dak's fault.

and this is not defending Dak, this is asking a simple question.

and if you can't see the entirety of the problem, then you are laser focused on your hate. we have seen the Moore offensive output, with 4 other QBs. and then there is that.

 

[mahoneybill]

The problem I see is personnel and option routes for wrs. The Cowboys and the Giants had the worse wr group out of all 8 teams last week and they scored a combined 19 points and are out of the playoffs. YOU NEED PLAYERS TO WIN THE SUPER BOWL. Getting rid of Cooper and not replacing him with someone of his caliber doesn’t bite you in the regular season against the Bears but in the playoffs it will. The last pass caught by a wr other than CeeDee was the first play of the second quarter, that 3 quarters of no production by your numbers 2,3,4 wrs.

Next, option routes. They require both the wr and the qb to read the defense the same way if they don’t then bad things could happen. If Dak doesn’t trust that the wr is reading the defense he’s not going to throw with anticipation. If the defense changes at the snap then indecision will occur. On the pass to Gallup both he and Dak were indecisive and that led to the interception. We need more plays with predetermined routes so the qb and the wrs can be on the same page.

I remember the Novacek quote re an Aikman pass while he was being sacked. Jay asked why did you you throw it. Aikman answered I knew you would be at that spot.

Shows the disconnect re our scheme. Unless the WR is open we rarely see a timing pass. Also in Gallup’s case no effort to fit the DB when the int looked inevitable

 

[Mannix]

The problem is Junior's "situational" play calling....3rd down routes short of the sticks with patterns designed with no ability for YAC....and in general, his route trees are TERRIBLE!!! But in fairness to Junior, Mannix told y'all in August how pathetic this group of WR's was....only a couple of you agreed at the time.