2009 Cowboys vs. 2009 Giants

[Idgit]

I could see us finishing last in the division. The Eagles and Giants will be as tough or tougher than they were last year.

And I guess nobody's respecting the Commanders. We only finished 1 game ahead of Washington last year. The Skins added a dominant player in Haynesworth, and they drafted a pretty solid prospect in Arakpo. The Skins ranked 4th in total defense, and 6th in PPG in 2008, and they could be much better this year. The Skins were a team that played better than they were on paper, now they're starting to look good on paper too.

Also I think people are favoring the Giants and Eagles because even if they dont win the division, they could still easily make the playoffs, and unlike Dallas, they actually win playoff games. That's the harsh reality.

Regardless of where we finish in the division, we're still a contender. I don't know that there's a team in the NFC with more talent than Dallas. The wailing and teeth gnashing should be saved for the next period where we really don't have a chance at making any noise in the league. That time will get here again soon enough.

 

[Sarge]

It would surprise few if either the Eagles/Giants or Cowboys win the East. It's a close call. No one team is a clear favorite IMO/FWIW. I also agree that the Commanders will be a pain in the *** this year.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Help me becuase I know I'm not the smartest (okay the peanut gallery can shut up now), but I am really confused when I look at these teams...

I know why the media thinks we will be a 3rd place division team, but why are the Giants among the best in the NFC?

Did they not lose their DC (one of the game's best),

Did they not lose one of their "three headed beasts" at RB,

Did they not only lose Plaxico, but cut Toomer giving them NO PROVEN receivers sans a slot guy in Smith,

Did their biggest signing be a DL who would disappear at times on the field when he played with a star on the side of his head?

What am I not seeing...:starspin

You're not seeing where the mediots are located....Does the northeast U.S. ring a bell?

I've posted this same thread before on TrueBlue.

The Vagiants lost a 1000 yard receiver to be replaced by a rank rookie. So either they have a #3 slot receiver as their #1 or a rookie as their #1. Can anyone say 9 in the box?

They lost a 1000 yard running back and their fanbase says they'll be fine. He only accounted for 45% of their total running game last season.

Oh yeah, they've still got Jacobs. Any bets on when he'll go down for 3-5 games? But hey they've still got....Oh yeah, he isn't with the team anymore.

Sheli is still Sheli. He won't miss Placcident one little bit. How many TD's did he throw to WR's without him out there in the last 6 games of the season? Would that be one whole TD? Not to worry though, they're a run first team with, oh yeah only Jacobs again.

Well, at least Toomer....Oh yeah, he's gone too.

They've still got that great offensive line. I mean we barely hung 11 sacks on them last season. No problem. Eli can check down to Toomer or Plax will pull cover or Ward can catch out of the....Huh.

Losing the brains and heart of the defense won't be a big issue. Cowboys fans didn't see first hand the differences between Stewart and Wade at all. Nope, no differences there in aggressiveness. Eli could have told you that laying on his back staring at the stars through the Texas Stadium roof 8 times in December. Changing the DC won't matter a bit.

Getting Osi back will be the alpha and omega for this defense. I mean Osi coming back is a death knell for every offense that has Winston Justice anywhere on the left side of their offensive line. Oh, wait, nobody starts Winston there? And you mean Humanurine only had 7 sacks in 15 games outside of that one? But he did great in 2005! Wait, that was four seasons ago WITH Strahan on the other side?

Hmmm, obviously they are the Super Bowl contenders we all thought they were. Might as well get Sheli's bust ready for Canton. Inscribed "thanks to mah defense nobody will see I've been one and done for three playoff years".

 

[BIGDen]

the G-spots supposedly have a "proven winner"at QB.

Yeah I love that. He throws 2 game-losing picks on that SB drive, but NE drops them and he's a hero because of glue on a helmet.

Romo is a "choker" because he makes a great TD pass to Fasano to have it dropped. Great, clutch throw on the run to Crayton, only to have it dropped. Great, clutch TD pass to Crayton, only to have him hesitate on the route in the final seconds.

When I watch those QBs play, it's obvious who is better, but he's a "loser". Oh well....

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Yeah I love that. He throws 2 game-losing picks on that SB drive, but NE drops them and he's a hero because of glue on a helmet.

Romo is a "choker" because he makes a great TD pass to Fasano to have it dropped. Great, clutch throw on the run to Crayton, only to have it dropped. Great, clutch TD pass to Crayton, only to have him hesitate on the route in the final seconds.

When I watch those QBs play, it's obvious who is better, but he's a "loser". Oh well....

The sad thing is for Vagiants fans is their guy won his Dilferesque Super Bowl in his third try. Now they're stuck with him for the duration of his career hoping he can lead them somewhere besides where the rest of us know he's going.

 

[TD-33]

If the Cowboys come out this year and somehow play every game for 4 quarters the way they are capable of playing the media will be singing a very different tune.
You still might not like it, but it will be very different.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

You're only missing a team that went 12-4 and won the Super Bowl 2 years ago, that's all. Also offensively the Giants had little problem putting points on the board against the Cardinals, Panthers, Commanders and Seahawks all without Plaxico. We also moved the ball pretty well against the Vikings for the half the starters actually played, a game that meant nothing to us and absolutely everything to the Vikings.

So yeah, I'm sure adding 3 high draft picks to the passing game will make us considerably worse offensively, somehow. And Derrick Ward a big blow? The guy who was on IR when we won our Super Bowl? News flash fellas, the Giants are a RB factory, have you not seen what we've done in the draft the last few year? Keep your eye out for Andre Brown and Danny Ware this year. Our strength is up front on the offensive line, that's where it all begins. That's why a 7th round Jets castoff named Derrick Ward cracked 1,000 yards rushing for the first time in his career and made a name for himself.

The only irreplaceable member of our backfield is the tone setter Jacobs. Defensively we will offset the loss of Spags by introducing NFC East QB's to a defensive line that has a great chance to surpass the one we had during our Super Bowl season. Adding Osi back into the fold is almost unfair, the guy is a top 5 DE, a stalwart against the run and a premier pass rusher. One of the most underrated performers in the ***wiping we gave the Patriots. Combine him with Tuck and Kiwi who is now a full time DE? It should be illegal.

Add guys like Bernard, Canty and Boley to a defense which was already very good to begin with, in addtion to a LB in the 2nd round the coaching staff is just ecstatic over in Clint Sintim and you are going to give opposing offensive coordinators some sleepless night.

:laugh2:

This guy is comedic gold.

 

[burmafrd]

what do you expect from a blind homer?

 

[billknows]

You're not seeing where the mediots are located....Does the northeast U.S. ring a bell?

I've posted this same thread before on TrueBlue.

The Vagiants lost a 1000 yard receiver to be replaced by a rank rookie. So either they have a #3 slot receiver as their #1 or a rookie as their #1. Can anyone say 9 in the box?

They lost a 1000 yard running back and their fanbase says they'll be fine. He only accounted for 45% of their total running game last season.

Oh yeah, they've still got Jacobs. Any bets on when he'll go down for 3-5 games? But hey they've still got....Oh yeah, he isn't with the team anymore.

Sheli is still Sheli. He won't miss Placcident one little bit. How many TD's did he throw to WR's without him out there in the last 6 games of the season? Would that be one whole TD? Not to worry though, they're a run first team with, oh yeah only Jacobs again.

Well, at least Toomer....Oh yeah, he's gone too.

They've still got that great offensive line. I mean we barely hung 11 sacks on them last season. No problem. Eli can check down to Toomer or Plax will pull cover or Ward can catch out of the....Huh.

Losing the brains and heart of the defense won't be a big issue. Cowboys fans didn't see first hand the differences between Stewart and Wade at all. Nope, no differences there in aggressiveness. Eli could have told you that laying on his back staring at the stars through the Texas Stadium roof 8 times in December. Changing the DC won't matter a bit.

Getting Osi back will be the alpha and omega for this defense. I mean Osi coming back is a death knell for every offense that has Winston Justice anywhere on the left side of their offensive line. Oh, wait, nobody starts Winston there? And you mean Humanurine only had 7 sacks in 15 games outside of that one? But he did great in 2005! Wait, that was four seasons ago WITH Strahan on the other side?

Hmmm, obviously they are the Super Bowl contenders we all thought they were. Might as well get Sheli's bust ready for Canton. Inscribed "thanks to mah defense nobody will see I've been one and done for three playoff years".

Great Post ,Great Post...

Cowboys will beat the giants twice this year ! ! !

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You're only missing a team that went 12-4 and won the Super Bowl 2 years ago, that's all. Also offensively the Giants had little problem putting points on the board against the Cardinals, Panthers, Commanders and Seahawks all without Plaxico. We also moved the ball pretty well against the Vikings for the half the starters actually played, a game that meant nothing to us and absolutely everything to the Vikings.

So yeah, I'm sure adding 3 high draft picks to the passing game will make us considerably worse offensively, somehow. And Derrick Ward a big blow? The guy who was on IR when we won our Super Bowl? News flash fellas, the Giants are a RB factory, have you not seen what we've done in the draft the last few year? Keep your eye out for Andre Brown and Danny Ware this year. Our strength is up front on the offensive line, that's where it all begins. That's why a 7th round Jets castoff named Derrick Ward cracked 1,000 yards rushing for the first time in his career and made a name for himself.

The only irreplaceable member of our backfield is the tone setter Jacobs. Defensively we will offset the loss of Spags by introducing NFC East QB's to a defensive line that has a great chance to surpass the one we had during our Super Bowl season. Adding Osi back into the fold is almost unfair, the guy is a top 5 DE, a stalwart against the run and a premier pass rusher. One of the most underrated performers in the ***wiping we gave the Patriots. Combine him with Tuck and Kiwi who is now a full time DE? It should be illegal.

Add guys like Bernard, Canty and Boley to a defense which was already very good to begin with, in addtion to a LB in the 2nd round the coaching staff is just ecstatic over in Clint Sintim and you are going to give opposing offensive coordinators some sleepless night.

But yeah, none of these moves come close to the additions the Cowboys made this offseason, losing a Hall of Famer like Owens will absoltely make you better. And how can you not see an upgrade in replacing a solid contributor in Canty, for a headcase that was benched for quitting on his team last year in Olshansky? Not to mention all of those stud 5th rounders you guys picked up, or the upcoming loss of Greg Ellis. Shoot the media is nuts not to crown you guys future Super Bowl Champs, let alone rate you above the Giants.

you guys have a very good D, but our's is better, 59 sacks last year, better than the 51 in your Super Bowl year, and we added 2 of the top 5 sackers in college football last year to it

about your O, I wouldnt' count on your rookie WRs too much, maybe Nicks because he's polished, but still, rookie WRs hardly make an impact their 1st year

then there's the little fact that we pretty much own you guys

 

[BBWC]

The consequences from the loss of a player -- even a catalytic one such as Plaxico -- are not always immediate. Teams with good coaching staffs, such as the Giants, can mask temporary talent deficiencies through adept game planning and scheming.

Unfortunately, even the best coaching staffs are incapable of overcoming permanent talent deficiencies. Eventually, opponents will devise a means of exploiting the weaknesses on a team's roster -- this is exactly what occurred to the Giants following the second Washington game. Opponents finally discovered a way of defending the Plaxico-less Giants, and they scored over 20 points only once more over the remainder of the season, which culminated in their play off loss against the Eagles.

Unless one of the Giants' draftees can immediately replace Plaxico's production, they will continue to struggle offensively...just as they did at the end of last season.

Since 2005:

Sacks
Olshanky - 10
Canty - 10

Tackles
Olshanky - 140
Canty - 148

Interceptions
Olshanky - 1
Canty - 0

In essence, Olshanky has been just as productive as Canty, but was acquired at half Canty's cost. Chris "I get turned sideways" Canty simply was not worth $42 million to the Cowboys.

You're the only one on this thread that has actually tried to engage me with some smart football analysis, instead of the ignorant rants this thread is filled with, so let me just thank you in advance.

You raise a good point about teams getting by with talent deficiencies for a while before defenses make the necessary adjustments. Fortunately the Giants have plenty of talent, just not a lot of experience. This idea that an offense can't be successful without a true number one wideout has been proven false time after time.

And just as defenses can make adjustments, so can offenses themselves. This is going to be a very different offense to the one the Giants have fielded the past few years, but different doesn't always correlate to worse.

And I feel like I've had this Canty/Olshansky debate about a hundred times now, stats are useless in comparing these guys. Do you actually think coaching staffs base their valuations of a player on stats alone? This is not baseball, you learn about a player in the film room, so lets put the facts on the table and see if we can't find a difference between these two players.

The Commanders, Giants, Packers and Seahawks were all interested in Canty. The Giants scouting department is in love with this guys potential, he's versatile and will be used in multiple positions for the Giants, he's also a great locker room guy, a guy who Parcells gave nothing but praise to.

Olshansky was given his walking papers by the Chargers, a team that was in need of a DE, the made absolutely no attempt to sign him, in fact they wanted him out. He was benched last season because his coaching staff believed he quit on the team, he was also a pariah in the locker room.

So yeah, stats don't tell the whole story. Having a meat head that's obsessed with himself in the locker room and willing to quit on the team if things go south should be a concern. There is a reason there was almost no interest in the guy around the league.

 

[Alexander]

Help me becuase I know I'm not the smartest (okay the peanut gallery can shut up now), but I am really confused when I look at these teams...

I know why the media thinks we will be a 3rd place division team, but why are the Giants among the best in the NFC?

Did they not lose their DC (one of the game's best),

Did they not lose one of their "three headed beasts" at RB,

Did they not only lose Plaxico, but cut Toomer giving them NO PROVEN receivers sans a slot guy in Smith,

Did their biggest signing be a DL who would disappear at times on the field when he played with a star on the side of his head?

What am I not seeing...:starspin

Unless Sheridan is just horrible, I still think their defense can be just as good. I respect them because they are built strong on both lines. Say what you want about Canty, but adding him and Rocky Bernard really made them eight strong on the line and they can send the rush in waves. Their offensive line is also top notch so they will be very much like they were last year with the exception of the passing game which might take a natural dip with so many young players. If they add Boldin, all bets are off.

 

[BBWC]

you guys have a very good D, but our's is better, 59 sacks last year, better than the 51 in your Super Bowl year, and we added 2 of the top 5 sackers in college football last year to it

about your O, I wouldnt' count on your rookie WRs too much, maybe Nicks because he's polished, but still, rookie WRs hardly make an impact their 1st year

The Giants had 42 sacks last year despite losing Strahan to retirement and Osi to injury for the year, that's pretty amazing when you really think about it. We've added Osi, Benard and Canty to the equation now, we have the deepest defensive line rotation in the league with 7 potential starters.

We also had absolutely no pass rush from our OLB's, we added a proven pass rusher in Boley, and drafted a SLB in the 2nd round that led his conference in sacks. The Cowboys 59 sacks were very impressive, but I don't see you repeating that number, not with the loss of Canty and the potential loss of Ellis. And I feel very confident we'll do better than 42 this year.

The Giants are all about the run, we run to set up the pass, we run to set up the run. That's what we do, reading some of the posts' on this thread you'd think the Giants will be lucky to score more than 10 points a game next year. We have weapons, Eli will spread the ball around, the coaching staff will make adjustment, and our passing game will get by. And we'll still run the ball down teams throats.

then there's the little fact that we pretty much own you guys

Not when it counts.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The Giants had 42 sacks last year despite losing Strahan to retirement and Osi to injury for the year, that's pretty amazing when you really think about it. We've added Osi, Benard and Canty to the equation now, we have the deepest defensive line rotation in the league with 7 potential starters.

I wouldn't expect much from Canty other than holding his own against the run, he plays too tall to mount much of a pass-rush, and it will be even harder when he's going up against squatty OGs and Cs inside at DT, Bernard, meh, but you do have a good group

We also had absolutely no pass rush from our OLB's, we added a proven pass rusher in Boley, and drafted a SLB in the 2nd round that led his conference in sacks. The Cowboys 59 sacks were very impressive, but I don't see you repeating that number, not with the loss of Canty and the potential loss of Ellis. And I feel very confident we'll do better than 42 this year.

Boley can rush the passer, but c'mon now, he's more of a sideline-to-sideline player and a guy who can drop into coverage very well, Sintim is a major threat though

there isn't that much that seperates Igor from Canty, our coaches have said so, and we drafted 2 OLBs who combined for 25 sacks last year, I think we'll be ok w/o Ellis

and then we have former, 1st round choice Anthony Spencer who actually overtook Ellis as a starter last year

The Giants are all about the run, we run to set up the pass, we run to set up the run. That's what we do, reading some of the posts' on this thread you'd think the Giants will be lucky to score more than 10 points a game next year. We have weapons, Eli will spread the ball around, the coaching staff will make adjustment, and our passing game will get by. And we'll still run the ball down teams throats.

that's what are gameplan is going to be too, Phillip's Ds are always aggressive, but the #1 priority is stopping the run

on O, getting rid of TO allows Romo to revert to his '07 form where he spreads the ball all around the field, and we have a great group of backs too, Felix Jones is going to turn into one of the most dynamic backs in all the NFL IMO

Not when it counts.

we've beaten you twice in Nov/Dec, those games count too, don't you think?

 

[Idgit]

Not when it counts.

Ouch.

 

[BBWC]

I wouldn't expect much from Canty other than holding his own against the run, he plays too tall to mount much of a pass-rush, and it will be even harder when he's going up against squatty OGs and Cs inside at DT, Bernard, meh, but you do have a good group

there isn't that much that seperates Igor from Canty, our coaches have said so, and we drafted 2 OLBs who combined for 25 sacks last year, I think we'll be ok w/o Ellis

and then we have former, 1st round choice Anthony Spencer who actually overtook Ellis as a starter last year

we've beaten you twice in Nov/Dec, those games count too, don't you think?

I will defer to the Giants superb scouting and coaching department on the Chris Canty front, they are convinced the man can be a force in this scheme and who am I to say different. They have a proven track record of correctly evaluating defensive line talent. And again, Olshansky and Canty are not the same player, regardless of similar stats. If Igor were on the Giants he'd be a situational player, he'd only see time at DT/UT and he'd be pulled off the field on passing downs.

You beat us last December in an absolutely meaningless game, it was all about the Panthers the following week, even if we beat the Cowboys if we lost the next game we would have been out the number 1 seed. When you beat us in January you'll have something to crow about.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I will defer to the Giants superb scouting and coaching department on the Chris Canty front, they are convinced the man can be a force in this scheme and who am I to say different.

cuz you're a homer? he couldn't mount a pass-rush in Dallas, sorry dude

in fact when we went to the nickel to rush the passer, Canty was taken off the field

They have a proven track record of correctly evaluating defensive line talent. And again, Olshansky and Canty are not the same player, regardless of similar stats.

did I mention any stats? I mentioned that the Dallas staff say they are the same players

If Igor were on the Giants he'd be a situational player, he'd only see time at DT/UT and he'd be pulled off the field on passing downs.

don't be an idiot

You beat us last December in an absolutely meaningless game, it was all about the Panthers the following week, even if we beat the Cowboys if we lost the next game we would have been out the number 1 seed. When you beat us in January you'll have something to crow about.

we also beat you in the 2nd game in '07

I don't want to play the what if? game, but the best team did not win that playoff game

 

[BBWC]

cuz you're a homer? he couldn't mount a pass-rush in Dallas, sorry dude

No, because we don't have any thing to base this off of yet, until he actually suits up and plays in this scheme its all speculation. So who's speculation should I base my opinion on? An anonymous Cowboys fan on the internet, or the Giants excellent player personnel staff? That's a pretty easy one for me.

did I mention any stats? I mentioned that the Dallas staff say they are the same players

In the same scheme perhaps. But outside of Dallas' 3-4 Canty was widely considered the better overall player, it wasn't even close.

we also beat you in the 2nd game in '07

It's all about January.

 

[Idgit]

I will defer to the Giants superb scouting and coaching department on the Chris Canty front, they are convinced the man can be a force in this scheme and who am I to say different. They have a proven track record of correctly evaluating defensive line talent. And again, Olshansky and Canty are not the same player, regardless of similar stats. If Igor were on the Giants he'd be a situational player, he'd only see time at DT/UT and he'd be pulled off the field on passing downs.

You beat us last December in an absolutely meaningless game, it was all about the Panthers the following week, even if we beat the Cowboys if we lost the next game we would have been out the number 1 seed. When you beat us in January you'll have something to crow about.

Canty's a situational player, too. I love the guy, but don't overrate him. Whatever your opinion on Igor, we got a comparable player for less money and will also get high a compensatory pick for Canty next year. That was a win for Dallas.

You get full marks for beating us when it counts, but let's not pretend the Dec game was meaningless to you. If nothing else, these teams don't like each other and every game is competitive. You got beat straight-up, just take it like a man and go back to talking about the playoffs we didn't get to.

Re: the Giants, though, you're not at all concerned about losing your DC? Whatever you may think about your personnel, you're field position game changed dramatically when Plexico shot himself in the leg. On top of that you lose a star coach--that's going to have an impact on next season. In a tight division, even a game drop-off is going to matter.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

No, because we don't have any thing to base this off of yet, until he actually suits up and plays in this scheme its all speculation. So who's speculation should I base my opinion on? An anonymous Cowboys fan on the internet, or the Giants excellent player personnel staff? That's a pretty easy one for me.

yeah, cuz you're a homer

In the same scheme perhaps. But outside of Dallas' 3-4 Canty was widely considered the better overall player, it wasn't even close.

by whom? and wouldn't the guys who've coached Canty for 4 years know better than anyone else?

It's all about January.

that's true