2021 draft is a bust

[kskboys]

I’m sorry, what? He wasn’t even the most talented CB when we picked…let alone player.

Not even close.

Yes he was. Dude is supremely talented. That's why we overdrafted him. No CB on the board was even close to his ability.

 

[phildadon86]

Yes he was. Dude is supremely talented. That's why we overdrafted him. No CB on the board was even close to his ability.

There is a big difference between ability and physical traits. Just because a guy runs a 4.3 40 doesnt make him talented. I hated the pick and would have much rather gone with a proven player at the position. Samuel for example. Or beef up the trenches and get McNeil/Williams.

 

[cnuball21]

Yes he was. Dude is supremely talented. That's why we overdrafted him. No CB on the board was even close to his ability.

You said most talented CB in the draft. Surtain and Horn have played at all pro level at times. That’s not even debatable.

When we were picking? Samuel was the better player. And literally every draft analyst agreed.

 

[Flamma]

Dirty hit on Jones? Wasn't Jones the one that lowered his helmet to initiate contact? That's like me punching someone in the jaw, hurting my knuckles, and then saying that was a dirty hit on me.

 

[cnuball21]

There is a big difference between ability and physical traits. Just because a guy runs a 4.3 40 doesnt make him talented. I hated the pick and would have much rather gone with a proven player at the position. Samuel for example. Or beef up the trenches and get McNeil/Williams.

McNeil would’ve completely transformed our defense. He’s turned into a game wrecker for Det.

 

[Cowboyny]

Think the injury stuff was blown out of proportion but that’s just my opinion.

I know Ojulari here in NY has played well, but he is always hurt. If they knew Parsons was going to become a full time edge, bet Bolton might have gotten a look, but they were drafting for need. Tell you now, corner again will be their biggest need entering the draft

 

[phildadon86]

McNeil would’ve completely transformed our defense. He’s turned into a game wrecker for Det.

Yup. But this team doesnt prioritize DT

 

[kskboys]

There is a big difference between ability and physical traits. Just because a guy runs a 4.3 40 doesnt make him talented. I hated the pick and would have much rather gone with a proven player at the position. Samuel for example. Or beef up the trenches and get McNeil/Williams.

I hated the pick, but he is supremely talented. He was a Gregory-like pick, clearly the BPA, but extremely unlikely to ever pan out.

 

[kskboys]

McNeil would’ve completely transformed our defense. He’s turned into a game wrecker for Det.

And he was not a secret before the draft.

 

[phildadon86]

I hated the pick, but he is supremely talented. He was a Gregory-like pick, clearly the BPA, but extremely unlikely to ever pan out.

His claim to fame is shutting down Smith. Other than that he did nothing that stood out to me. Hes fast. Thats really it. In that situation I take the player with a track record of being good (Samuel/McNeil) and move on. You want to take that risk. Wait until the 3rd or 4th. If he is still there. Cool. If not. Oh well. Some other teams headache.

 

[kskboys]

You said most talented CB in the draft. Surtain and Horn have played at all pro level at times. That’s not even debatable.

When we were picking? Samuel was the better player. And literally every draft analyst agreed.

Better player? Absolutely. I was POed at the pick, absolutely hated it.

Previously we were debating talent, but now it's better player. Those are completely different aspects.

Those who wanted BPA, well that was Joseph.

 

[kskboys]

His claim to fame is shutting down Smith. Other than that he did nothing that stood out to me. Hes fast. Thats really it. In that situation I take the player with a track record of being good (Samuel/McNeil) and move on. You want to take that risk. Wait until the 3rd or 4th. If he is still there. Cool. If not. Oh well. Some other teams headache.

Of course I'll take that risk. In round 6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[phildadon86]

Of course I'll take that risk. In round 6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at Damone Clark. They grabbed him perfectly in the 5th. Thats when you take risks. Not in the second round. I made a thread about this yesterday.

 

[cnuball21]

I hated the pick, but he is supremely talented. He was a Gregory-like pick, clearly the BPA, but extremely unlikely to ever pan out.

Maybe you’re talking about traits instead
of actual talent? Joseph has high end traits but he was never a top 50 talent.

I just looked to make sure I’m not crazy and I saw him on big boards in the 80s, 60s, etc…

He’s the definition of reaching for need. As soon as we went Parsons instead of the CBs in round 1 Jerry and co locked in on CB in round 2.

 

[phildadon86]

Maybe you’re talking about traits instead
of actual talent? Joseph has high end traits but he was never a top 50 talent.

I just looked to make sure I’m not crazy and I saw him on big boards in the 80s, 60s, etc…

He’s the definition of reaching for need. As soon as we went Parsons instead of the CBs in round 1 Jerry and co locked in on CB in round 2.

If they used FA to bring in a vet CB they could have drafted much more free. But. Here we are. Reactive never proactive.

 

[cnuball21]

Better player? Absolutely. I was POed at the pick, absolutely hated it.

Previously we were debating talent, but now it's better player. Those are completely different aspects.

Those who wanted BPA, well that was Joseph.

So you’re talking about traits not talent.

Just b/c Joseph ran a 4.3 and had 1st round traits doesn’t make him more talented than Samuel. Traits are athletically ability that could lead to NFL success. Talent is traits + being good at football.

Joseph had better traits than Samuel but Samuel was a more talented player.

You roll the dice on traits in mid/late rounds…not round 2.

 

[kskboys]

His claim to fame is shutting down Smith. Other than that he did nothing that stood out to me. Hes fast. Thats really it. In that situation I take the player with a track record of being good (Samuel/McNeil) and move on. You want to take that risk. Wait until the 3rd or 4th. If he is still there. Cool. If not. Oh well. Some other teams headache.

Oh, and simply not true. Kelvin is fast, has great burst, great ball skills, and has all the skills to be a top notch #1 Cb. He's also a very good tackler. Prolly the most talented CB in his draft class.

Problem is, he was clearly a highly skilled project pick. He was not close to ready. Taking him in the 2nd was extremely foolish.

 

[phildadon86]

Oh, and simply not true. Kelvin is fast, has great burst, great ball skills, and has all the skills to be a top notch #1 Cb. He's also a very good tackler. Prolly the most talented CB in his draft class.

Problem is, he was clearly a highly skilled project pick. He was not close to ready. Taking him in the 2nd was extremely foolish.

Samuel had all of those traits, an incredible football player father, and no red flags for character. I factor all of that in when talking about "talent".

 

[kskboys]

So you’re talking about traits not talent.

Just b/c Joseph ran a 4.3 and had 1st round traits doesn’t make him more talented than Samuel. Traits are athletically ability that could lead to NFL success. Talent is traits + being good at football.

Joseph had better traits than Samuel but Samuel was a more talented player.

You roll the dice on traits in mid/late rounds…not round 2.

Yes and no. The definition of talent is at play here. However, Joseph has extreme talent and has shown the ability to play at a very high level(Vs ALA, INT/no completions.) He did show he could be very good at football. He has the traits and has shown he was good at football.

Agree that he should've been no higher than a 5th. I do not like him at all, and thought the pick was just foolish. But talent he does have.

 

[kskboys]

Samuel had all of those traits, an incredible football player father, and no red flags for character. I factor all of that in when talking about "talent".

Ah, character. There's where he falls off the charts, as well as simply being a dumb knucklehead.

I also wanted Samuel. Not as talented, but a much better prospect.