2021 draft is a bust

[terra]

Oh, and simply not true. Kelvin is fast, has great burst, great ball skills, and has all the skills to be a top notch #1 Cb. He's also a very good tackler. Prolly the most talented CB in his draft class.

Problem is, he was clearly a highly skilled project pick. He was not close to ready. Taking him in the 2nd was extremely foolish.

It is his football instincts that worry me

 

[phildadon86]

It is his football instincts that worry me

Its his life instincts that worry me. LOL

 

[cnuball21]

Yes and no. The definition of talent is at play here. However, Joseph has extreme talent and has shown the ability to play at a very high level(Vs ALA, INT/no completions.) He did show he could be very good at football. He has the traits and has shown he was good at football.

Agree that he should've been no higher than a 5th. I do not like him at all, and thought the pick was just foolish. But talent he does have.

I guess I’d just disagree on what you consider talent vs traits. I think what I consider traits you consider talent.

Taking talent over need IMO means your taking the best football player available instead reaching for a team need. What player has the highest combination of physical traits and + game tape? What player is consistently ranked higher on big boards vs the need player you’re considering taking? Best player available.

Call it whatever word you want, but taking Kelvin was reaching for need instead of taking the best
player available. And we’re getting burned for it.

 

[fivetwos]

I’m disappointed in this group thus far as well, but….

The reality is that most players need time to adjust before they can make an impact. Armstrong, McGovern, Steele are just a few examples.

That’s why relying on draft only to improve immediately is so maddening.

You’ve got a gaping hole at WR and think a small school third rounder is gonna solve things.

They simply HAVE to get over it with free agents.

 

[phildadon86]

I’m disappointed in this group thus far as well, but….

The reality is that most players need time to adjust before they can make an impact. Armstrong, McGovern, Steele are just a few examples.

That’s why relying on draft only to improve immediately is so maddening.

You’ve got a gaping hole at WR and think a small school third rounder is gonna solve things.

They simply HAVE to get over it with free agents.

This X10000000000

 

[terra]

Its his life instincts that worry me. LOL

both, actually

 

[kskboys]

I guess I’d just disagree on what you consider talent vs traits. I think what I consider traits you consider talent.

Taking talent over need IMO means your taking the best football player available instead reaching for a team need. What player has the highest combination of physical traits and + game tape? What player is consistently ranked higher on big boards vs the need player you’re considering taking? Best player available.

Call it whatever word you want, but taking Kelvin was reaching for need instead of taking the best
player available. And we’re getting burned for it.

I call it making a huge draft mistake due to focusing solely on talent. Taking Kelvin was taking BPA.

 

[cnuball21]

I call it making a huge draft mistake due to focusing solely on talent. Taking Kelvin was taking BPA.

Strongly disagree he was BPA if we’re talking about how good the football player was as a prospect and where they stacked up on most draft boards…he should’ve been taken a round later.

But ok.

 

[Frosty]

A generational talent is worth more than an entire draft class filled with starters. I don't see the Giants complaining about their 1981 draft class.

ahhhhhh...40yrs later....most fans couldn't tell you who they drafted in 1981.....

 

[G2]

Strongly disagree he was BPA if we’re talking about how good the football player was as a prospect and where they stacked up on most draft boards…he should’ve been taken a round later.

But ok.

They took a stab at potential IMO. Joseph has not illustrated that potential and interestingly, he didn't in college either. He has a rock bottom football IQ as well.
Bust. Maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder.

 

[stinkface]

Outside of Parson's it was a slightly below average draft. You expect your first 3 round picks to be starters. We have one all pro and the others not so much.

 

[cnuball21]

They took a stab at potential IMO. Joseph has not illustrated that potential and interestingly, he didn't in college either. He has a rock bottom football IQ as well.
Bust. Maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder.

Exactly. They saw a high end athlete with high end traits and reached for need hoping they’d hit.

I could probably come up with close to 10 dudes that that were ranked ahead of him that would’ve been better picks.

 

[quickccc]

Overall the draft is bust with Micah as the only upside whose shine is going down as well.
All this talk about building through the draft and valuing picks over FA has amounted to pile of trash and tons of dead money due to Jones’s egos. I don’t want to hear brain washed Cowboys fan claiming picks are more valuable than FAs.


1st round: Micah is good but still hasn’t improved run defense the biggest weakness in the defender

2nd round: So far a bust getting burnt with minimum contribution on defense

3rd round: Osa Odighizuwa can’t stop the run and isn’t getting sacks or pressure

3rd round: Chauncey Golston too slow to play DE and too small to play DT has helped given up over 4.0 yards a carry in run defense

3rd round: Nashon Wright another burnt toast that can’t cover

4th round: Jabril Cox besides a dirty hit on Jones hasn’t produced squat on defense and can’t even play special teams.

4th round: Josh Ball aka another Chaez Green turnstile.

5th round: Simi Fehoko special teams player

6th round: Quinton Bohanna often injured and run defense is still trash

6th round: Israel Mukuamu special teams player at best.

7th round: Matt Farniok always injured but decent depth on OL

Thanks for Sharing ...

First Rd- Parsons vs run ? - I have no idea what you’re talking about – but at least that makes Two of us...lol

Second Rd – Joseph ? I understand/agree the theory in why he was drafted in 2nd rd. (vs Devontae, 4.35 speed and INT skills) It just hasn’t panned out and appears a failed pick. Time to move on.

Third-Rd at one point I believe I saw that Osa was among league leaders in rush pressures. But he’s also another that can be up/down vs run. Is he more a rotation type than impact starter player ?

Third Rd 2 – I Hoped Golston be a Michael Bennett type..or at the very least a Tyrone Crawford type. Jack of all trades, master of none. JAG grunt. Most times I dunno if he’s even been game-activated.

Third Rd. 3 - Wright was considered a major reach at draft time, and done nothing to change that. Major Quinn over-influence.

Fourth Rd – Coaches simply do not believe in Cox. Deactivated virtually every single game this year. Only LB injury gets him activated. Won't be here 2023.

Fourth Rd 2– Hoping Ball would have Steel- like progress. Took some time for Steele, maybe it’s still too early to tell for Ball.

Fifth Rd – Simi is simply a pet project. In ’23, not for sake-keeping him.

Sixth Rd – Bohanna is JAG.

Sixth Rd B – Israel is still a pet project..

Sixth round C – Farniok didn’t play well even before his IR injury. Typical JAG whose versatile for C/OG.

 

[DuncanIso]

Gotta agree.

there are some bad picks in that group.

some of us called it long before today.

 

[ghst187]

Gotta agree.

there are some bad picks in that group.

some of us called it long before today.

yep agree. There’s Micah…and OSA is a decent rotational guy, and I really liked the Cox pick but the rest are all busts. Joseph, Wright, Ball, Golston, were all drafted several rounds before they should’ve been if at all. One of the worst drafts in a while even with MP. Really reeked of the 2009 draft where we were purposely focusing on role players because we thought we had talent at key positions.

 

[kskboys]

Strongly disagree he was BPA if we’re talking about how good the football player was as a prospect and where they stacked up on most draft boards…he should’ve been taken a round later.

But ok.

Man, C, they are all prospects.

I think he was more of a 4th/5th rounder since he was a project.

I swear, you have this thing that you can't let go of. Not every bad pick is a reach for need.

There are two terrible ways to run a draft:

1. Reaching for need.
2. Drafting BPA w/ no other thought processes.

You must mix both and a whole lot of other factors. The BPA thing is nothing more than a fan thing. And there's rarely any such thing.

Draftees are drafted on upside. All of them. Kelvin has a very high upside, so it could easily be determined that he was BPA. Which is why you absolutely cannot draft using BPA. That is one facet of a strategy, not a strategy.

 

[kskboys]

Exactly. They saw a high end athlete with high end traits and reached for need hoping they’d hit.

I could probably come up with close to 10 dudes that that were ranked ahead of him that would’ve been better picks.

No, they determined he was BPA. Faulty thinking.

 

[cnuball21]

Man, C, they are all prospects.

I think he was more of a 4th/5th rounder since he was a project.

I swear, you have this thing that you can't let go of. Not every bad pick is a reach for need.

There are two terrible ways to run a draft:

1. Reaching for need.
2. Drafting BPA w/ no other thought processes.

You must mix both and a whole lot of other factors. The BPA thing is nothing more than a fan thing. And there's rarely any such thing.

Draftees are drafted on upside. All of them. Kelvin has a very high upside, so it could easily be determined that he was BPA. Which is why you absolutely cannot draft using BPA. That is one facet of a strategy, not a strategy.

Of course they are all prospects, but teams rank them for a reason. And I don’t blame all misses on reaching for need - sometimes you just whiff.

I’m taking option number 2 10 times out of 10 and twice on Sunday. And of course when teams build their draft board they keep their roster in mind. Ex - heading into last years draft Id imagine we probably didn’t even have RBs on the board. And players are drafted high based on upside / athleticism / tape. The more of those boxes they check the higher drafted.

Kelvin had upside / athleticism but he had like 1 season of up and down tape and off the field questions. He was a reach.

 

[kskboys]

Of course they are all prospects, but teams rank them for a reason. And I don’t blame all misses on reaching for need - sometimes you just whiff.

I’m taking option number 2 10 times out of 10 and twice on Sunday. And of course when teams build their draft board they keep their roster in mind. Ex - heading into last years draft Id imagine we probably didn’t even have RBs on the board. And players are drafted high based on upside / athleticism / tape. The more of those boxes they check the higher drafted.

Kelvin had upside / athleticism but he had like 1 season of up and down tape and off the field questions. He was a reach.

No, you're not. You don't take either option. You use both, along w/ many other factors.

Kelvin was definitely a reach, and truthfully he was simply a project reach. Which you absolutely do not do in the 2nd.

The needs vs BPA thing is strictly a fan argument. No team uses those strategies, that would be extremely foolish.

 

[cnuball21]

No, you're not. You don't take either option. You use both, along w/ many other factors.

Kelvin was definitely a reach, and truthfully he was simply a project reach. Which you absolutely do not do in the 2nd.

The needs vs BPA thing is strictly a fan argument. No team uses those strategies, that would be extremely foolish.

I would but you wouldn’t. Difference of opinion.