CFZ 29.8 - average points given up when Dak has thrown it 40 times

[RonnieT24]

The interception at the Dallas five was brutal . If Houston can break huddle run a red zone play not look like a three stooges imitation and punch it in it’s good night nurse game over .

The linebackers dropping into coverage seemed to give him fits , and the secondary was banged up . Burn that tape .

Are you faulting Dak for letting the DE get to him inside of 1.5 seconds? If that INT off the hit arm doesn't happen and Schultz holds on to that TD pass in the second quarter the Cowboys win the game by 10 and Dak ends up with 300 yards and 2 TD passes. Nothing else changes.. except Schultz catches a ball that hits him in the chest and Josh Ball blocks his man for another half second. Does that change the narrative coming out of the game? Of course it does.. yet in the proposed scenario Dak has played the exact same game.

 

[terra]

I would guess that if you look at pretty much every QB's teams record when he threw 40+ times it would be pretty bad.

 

[RonnieT24]

Usually when you throw more other things aren’t working. Run game, defense, etc…and you might be losing.

This is probably isn’t just a Dak thing but an NFL thing. I’d imagine when other teams are throwing it 40+ times it’s a losing record.

100% I can all but guarantee you that if you find a QB whose team is giving up 30 a game they have a losing record. Any season, any QB, any coach. If the defense gives up 30.. they are going to lose more often than not. I don't even need to look it up. It doesn't matter how many times the QB threw it or didn't throw it. If the opponent scored 30 I'm putting money on that being a loss.

 

[RonnieT24]

I would guess that if you look at pretty much every QB's teams record when he threw 40+ times it would be pretty bad.

Not if the defense can hold the opponent under 25 points. It's not the number of passes the QB threw.. it's the number of points the opponent scores that determines the games.

 

[cnuball21]

100% I can all but guarantee you that if you find a QB whose team is giving up 30 a game they have a losing record. Any season, any QB, any coach. If the defense gives up 30.. they are going to lose more often than not. I don't even need to look it up. It doesn't matter how many times the QB threw it or didn't throw it. If the opponent scored 30 I'm putting money on that being a loss.

For sure.

If I had to guess I’d imagine a lot of our fans don’t watch a lot of NfL football outside of the Cowboys. Probably see highlights from other teams and don’t see other teams having similar ups and downs week in and week out. Makes it easy to complain about everything we do.

 

[RonnieT24]

For sure.

If I had to guess I’d imagine a lot of our fans don’t watch a lot of NfL football outside of the Cowboys. Probably see highlights from other teams and don’t see other teams having similar ups and downs week in and week out. Makes it easy to complain about everything we do.

Yeah I had Sunday Ticket for 20 years and then switched to a streaming service that lets me watch all the games .. every week. I have yet to any QBs not have off games.. nor have I seen any teams win every game.. Yet the people who only watch highlights are convinced that other QBs don't throw picks, don't skip balls, don't get fooled into throwing into coverage, don't get sacked.. Other QBs are just perfect all the time. That's why there are so many guys completing 95% of their passes and have 4-5 TD passes every game... Oh... wait..

 

[cnuball21]

Yeah I had Sunday Ticket for 20 years and then switched to a streaming service that lets me watch all the games .. every week. I have yet to any QBs not have off games.. nor have I seen any teams win every game.. Yet the people who only watch highlights are convinced that other QBs don't throw picks, don't skip balls, don't get fooled into throwing into coverage, don't get sacked.. Other QBs are just perfect all the time. That's why there are so many guys completing 95% of their passes and have 4-5 TD passes every game... Oh... wait..

I’m yet to see the perfect QB. Still waiting.

 

[MyFairLady]

Is simple really, Dak need to run more. He need to model Mahomes and Hurts. Instead of ints, get 5 yards on a sprint. Stop dropping back 20 years to throw to line of scrimmage. Pocket passers to easy to defeat.

100 % accurate and well said. I would add Allen and Burrow to the list of comparables that are not afraid to run for the first down. I do not hate Dak but inside the pocket he is a top 12-15 QB. As a dual threat QB he could be top 5.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Dak is one player on a 53, or whatever it is, man roster. When Dak plays well the defense benefits and vice versa. When the defense plays bad Dak suffers and vice versa. Dak is not the best player on our team but he's also not the worst. Dak needs to not turn the ball over. If he does that we have the offensive line, RB and defense to beat anyone. I'm not a Dak Stan but we can win with him if he plays relatively smart and safe with the ball. When I say win with him I mean win the Super Bowl. Cuz our team is strong enough and Dak is good enough not to lose it. If he plays safe. As someone who is not a Dak homer my biggest concern is CB, RT, run defense and then Dak.

This obsession of trying to validate or invalidate Dak is tiresome. Dak is not our main problem IMHO. The culture, the OC, the circus and some injuries are our biggest problems that will hold us back this year. Dak will be fine.

It's amazing after you posted this there's still factions on both sides that just want to perpetuate the Pro-Anti Dak debate.

 

[nate dizzle]

There has been a lot of brain dead talk lately about the Cowboys' record when Dak throws the ball 40 or more times. It's 6-14. But since football is a team game that got me wondering.. Why was Dak putting it up 40 or more times in the first place.. I probably kinda knew the answer but went and looked for myself. The bottom line is that pretty much the only time Dak has had to throw it 40 times it's been because the defense has been as loose as a 20 dollar you know what..

I wonder what other QBs records are when their defenses are giving up 30 or more. I bet it aint all that good. None of which is to say Dak doesn't need to play better. Just that these cherry picked numbers in a vacuum don't really tell you a whole lot. The team is 6-14 when giving up a boatload of points. Shocking right? How many times Dak threw the ball probably didn't have much to do with it. In those 14 losses the defense held the opponent to under 20 points twice. Philly in 2019 and KC in 2021. They managed to hold the opponent under 30 three other times.. So in those 14 losses that the talking heads beat their chests about the Cowboys gave up at least 30 points 9 times.

But I can already hear it.. If Dak had only thrown it less the defense would have given up fewer points.. Because we can't play defense if the offense is throwing the ball more than 40 times. It's apparently against the rules. I suspect the defense being porous probably had a lot to do with all those pass attempts. Not every time.. but I would wager more often than not, the pass heavy games featured the defense coming out flat and letting the other team waltz up and down the field, which in turn gave Kellen Moore the excuse he needed to just start slingin it every down!!

While researching that did you look to see how many turnovers Dak had in those games? Did we give up points because the defense was bad or was it the opposition playing with a short field? Not doubting that a leaky defense leads to throwing more, just wondering if there are more variables at play.

 

[ondaedg]

Dak is a nice kid. He holds the ball too long because he struggles reading defenses. He hates making mistakes (which I respect), but misses big opportunities. Someone posted a video yesterday about how clutch Dak was on the last drive against the Texans. He kept saying to ignore the wide open WR's that Dak couldn't see. I had to turn it off halfway into the video.

Dak’s TTT is among the best in the league. You just want to believe he holds the ball too long. Did you know that bias can cloud your judgment?

 

[RonnieT24]

100 % accurate and well said. I would add Allen and Burrow to the list of comparables that are not afraid to run for the first down. I do not hate Dak but inside the pocket he is a top 12-15 QB. As a dual threat QB he could be top 5.

I cannot disagree with this assessment. I've stated many times I'd like to see Dak take off 2-3 times per half. There are opportunities to steal a first down at least that many times a half and if he does it, he poses a whole new level of threat to the defense. But I understand that he has missed 16 games the last three years and I'm sure that's in his head a little. Maybe even more than a little. I look forward to seeing if he turns it loose in the playoffs. I think he wanted to do it last year in the playoffs but his leg wouldn't let him. Frankly it's more important for the Cowboys to have him healthy come playoff time so if he delivers a few "meh" games along the way in the regular season in the name of staying healthy I'm okay with it. So long as we keep winning 75% of the games that is..

 

[shabazz]

Never have I ever seen a QB so needlessly defended to the death. If you have to make 1000+ posts to prove your point and scrap for straws (including pulling out wild stats and situations where context is desperately needed)… doesn’t that mean he’s a problem? Why do people so desperately defend him? Why have multiple people been fired because of his incompetence? There’s a single denominator and it’s Dak. It’s not hard to understand and it doesn’t make you a bad fan for criticizing and pointing out an extreme Achilles heel of your team.

no matter what the thread, Dak is brought up by his bois because they are emotionally invested in him and is always in the forefront of their collective minds. It is what it is.

if Dak fails, they feel like it’s a condemnation on them so we see way too many threads trying to manipulate and perform mental gymnastics with nitpicking obscure stats to persuade others

here’s a stat…..1-3 playoff record of a guy that commands approximately 20% of the teams salary cap

nobody’s mind is gonna change until he does what he’s getting paid to do….win in the playoffs. Our last quarterback was judged that way so I see no reason to change the criteria just because some self identify with the current guy

 

[Jumbo075]

It should be obvious to nearly everyone that a team passes the ball more when it is behind on the scoreboard, is trying to catch up quickly, and trying to preserve time on the clock. Thus, more passes is an EFFECT of losing, not the CAUSE of losing.

It has always been a specious argument to say Dak passing more is the cause of losing games. If the Cowboys are ahead, of course they will run the ball more to try to eat up the clock. People have the whole cause/effect relationship backwards. If Dak is throwing more, it is because the Cowboys are already losing, and the team is trying to catch up. Saying that Dak (or any other QB) passing more is causing the team to lose is like saying that “wet” causes there to be water. It just doesn’t make sense.

 

[RonnieT24]

While researching that did you look to see how many turnovers Dak had in those games? Did we give up points because the defense was bad or was it the opposition playing with a short field? Not doubting that a leaky defense leads to throwing more, just wondering if there are more variables at play.

No need to wonder.. Of COURSE there are more variables at play. That was kinda my point. Yes some games Dak has turnovers.. But against the Raiders last Thanksgiving he had 375 yards 2 TDs and no turnovers.. But the defense gave up 36 points. Not surprisingly we lost and softheads blamed Dak.. Against Cleveland in 2020 he had 502 yards, 3 TDs and one pick on like the last play of the game. Basically a Hail Mary heave. The week before he had 472 yards 3 TDs and two picks against Seattle. The first pick was a bad one right before half.. The second one I believe was a 4th down heave at the end of the game. I could keep going back through them but my sense is that we might find a game or two here and there where Dak's turnovers put the defense in bad position.. but given the totality of his career I would say those games were rare.. Because for him big -turnover games have not been all that common. He has only had 15 multi-INT games in his entire career. He has had three such games this year.. The Cowboys are 2-1 in those games and were 2-1 in such games last year as well. Meaning his turnovers have not been the death knell for the team some might make it out to be. At least not since the defense stopped sucking. Dak started out 1-8 in games with at least 2 INTs but is 4-2 the last two years. Wonder what changed?

I know there are also fumbles at play there but it's much harder to find lost fumbles .. and aside from 2018 he has not really had much of a problem in that department.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

There has been a lot of brain dead talk lately about the Cowboys' record when Dak throws the ball 40 or more times. It's 6-14. But since football is a team game that got me wondering.. Why was Dak putting it up 40 or more times in the first place.. I probably kinda knew the answer but went and looked for myself. The bottom line is that pretty much the only time Dak has had to throw it 40 times it's been because the defense has been as loose as a 20 dollar you know what..

I wonder what other QBs records are when their defenses are giving up 30 or more. I bet it aint all that good. None of which is to say Dak doesn't need to play better. Just that these cherry picked numbers in a vacuum don't really tell you a whole lot. The team is 6-14 when giving up a boatload of points. Shocking right? How many times Dak threw the ball probably didn't have much to do with it. In those 14 losses the defense held the opponent to under 20 points twice. Philly in 2019 and KC in 2021. They managed to hold the opponent under 30 three other times.. So in those 14 losses that the talking heads beat their chests about the Cowboys gave up at least 30 points 9 times.

But I can already hear it.. If Dak had only thrown it less the defense would have given up fewer points.. Because we can't play defense if the offense is throwing the ball more than 40 times. It's apparently against the rules. I suspect the defense being porous probably had a lot to do with all those pass attempts. Not every time.. but I would wager more often than not, the pass heavy games featured the defense coming out flat and letting the other team waltz up and down the field, which in turn gave Kellen Moore the excuse he needed to just start slingin it every down!!

I'm a little surprised at you , Ron. You usually have level headed takes. This looks like yet another "Dak needs my protection" thread.

You act like the offense has NOTHING to do with the defense giving up points.

Slow starts
Loss of downs
Punts
Turnovers
3 n outs
ZERO points in 4th qtr and OT (an in fact a turnover or two)


All contribute to putting pressure on the defense. Are we throwing a lot because the defense sucks? Or does the defense suck because we're throwing alot?


It's probably a combination...or a back and forth. Dak shares blame as much as anyone.

 

[Doomsday101]

Cowboys run the ball more than most teams in the NFL, the notion we don't run it is a joke. Dallas will of course throw it in what is still a passing league. 1st half of the Houston game Dallas ran it 12 time 6.6 a carry but by the 2nd half rushing 11 time the avg carry was 2.2 yards meaning on several series the Cowboys were faced with 2nd and 3rd long. If all the Cowboys do is run we are not going anywhere as teams will just stack the line and play the run. It is the pass that keeps them off balance.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

no matter what the thread, Dak is brought up by his bois because they are emotionally invested in him and is always in the forefront of their collective minds. It is what it is.

if Dak fails, they feel like it’s a condemnation on them so we see way too many threads trying to manipulate and perform mental gymnastics with nitpicking obscure stats to persuade others

here’s a stat…..1-3 playoff record of a guy that commands approximately 20% of the teams salary cap

nobody’s mind is gonna change until he does what he’s getting paid to do….win in the playoffs. Our last quarterback was judged that way so I see no reason to change the criteria just because some self identify with the current guy

Win in the playoffs?!?!

YOU GOAL POST MOVER!

 

[JBond]

Absolutely and totally false!















I like you, bro, but the video creator (J-Tuck) never said that. I created the thread and used that video. I just finished rewatching it 2 times. J-Tuck NEVER SAID to ignore the wide open WRs that Dak couldn't see. Not once. I don't know what video you were watching, but it simply was not this one...































https://cowboyszone.com/threads/dak-prescott-is-surgical-with-the-game-on-the-line.504455/

Hello my friend. We have been chatting Cowboys for a couple decades. Lol. In the video he says multipe times Dak could have gone here or here but chose the safe path. We can agree to disagree. I like Dak. We lucked out getting him. He is not Mahomes or any of the other top 5 needed to reach the goal all of us want. Allen, Burrow and others would be shredding defenses with this team.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

No need to wonder.. Of COURSE there are more variables at play. That was kinda my point. Yes some games Dak has turnovers.. But against the Raiders last Thanksgiving he had 375 yards 2 TDs and no turnovers.. But the defense gave up 36 points. Not surprisingly we lost and softheads blamed Dak.. Against Cleveland in 2020 he had 502 yards, 3 TDs and one pick on like the last play of the game. Basically a Hail Mary heave. The week before he had 472 yards 3 TDs and two picks against Seattle. The first pick was a bad one right before half.. The second one I believe was a 4th down heave at the end of the game. I could keep going back through them but my sense is that we might find a game or two here and there where Dak's turnovers put the defense in bad position.. but given the totality of his career I would say those games were rare.. Because for him big -turnover games have not been all that common. He has only had 15 multi-INT games in his entire career. He has had three such games this year.. The Cowboys are 2-1 in those games and were 2-1 in such games last year as well. Meaning his turnovers have not been the death knell for the team some might make it out to be. At least not since the defense stopped sucking. Dak started out 1-8 in games with at least 2 INTs but is 4-2 the last two years. Wonder what changed?

I know there are also fumbles at play there but it's much harder to find lost fumbles .. and aside from 2018 he has not really had much of a problem in that department.

Ah..I see. A crusade...against a very few contingent. The "Dak softheads".

Carry on then.