CFZ 29.8 - average points given up when Dak has thrown it 40 times

[kskboys]

Still doesn't explain why we go pass happy all too often, ofttimes w/ a lead and w/ a running game that is effective.

Kyle Shanahan has lost 2 super bowls(ATL and SF), and a huge part of the fault lies in too much downfield passing w/ a lead. This is the perfect type of O for a D to exploit, as the DLine doesn't have to worry much about defending the run, which gives them that extra tic to get to the QB. They can just pin back their ears and go.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Ya'll act like Moore is the only OC Dak's ever had lol

Dak's had his best seasons with Moore as the OC.

Do you really want to see a 2017ish version of Dak again?

He went from Garrett being in control of the offense to Moore being in control of the offense. Has Garrett succeeded at other stops? No! What was the complaint we kept hearing from Giant fans while Garrett was there? Offense too predictable/no creativity.

Some act like Dak has had the best of the best when it comes to coaches and play calling.

 

[ondaedg]

But most of his passes are short. Therefore, things like TTT, completion %, etc., are inflated when compared to QB's who are pushing it downfield.

When he has to work through progressions, I would say there is a lot of evidence that he is not as quick as most other QB's.

Tom Brady won 6 SBs throwing short passes to TEs, slots and RBs. And how do you throw it long when all you’re facing is cover 2s and deep single high zones?

BTW Dak is one of the most proficient at passes greater than 15yds. No idea where anyone comes up with the myth that he only throws it short….

 

[RonWashington]

Are you faulting Dak for letting the DE get to him inside of 1.5 seconds? If that INT off the hit arm doesn't happen and Schultz holds on to that TD pass in the second quarter the Cowboys win the game by 10 and Dak ends up with 300 yards and 2 TD passes. Nothing else changes.. except Schultz catches a ball that hits him in the chest and Josh Ball blocks his man for another half second. Does that change the narrative coming out of the game? Of course it does.. yet in the proposed scenario Dak has played the exact same game.

You can’t be throwing it up for grabs at your five . Look the week before I said the Stephen Gilmore INT was all on Gallup . That INT at the Dallas five nearly Costs Dallas any shot at catching Philly . It was one of Daks worst games in memory .

 

[RonnieT24]

Wow, this thread started at a low point, but actually managed to decline.
The answer, as in life, isn't Pro or Anti Dak, its somewhere in between..

The real answer is teams win and teams lose. These attempts to paint it as being on one player or another is the stuff of simpletons.

 

[McKDaddy]

Tom Brady won 6 SBs throwing short passes to TEs, slots and RBs. And how do you throw it long when all you’re facing is cover 2s and deep single high zones?

BTW Dak is one of the most proficient at passes greater than 15yds. No idea where anyone comes up with the myth that he only throws it short….

I am well aware how Tom did a lot of work. Didn't say there was anything wrong with those throws only that it skews the numbers.

The same ways every other team beats those coverages.

If you look back at the deeper passes, I suspect you will see a fairly large number of those completions are when the receiver is running wide open. Far fewer when the ball placement had to be precise.

 

[RonnieT24]

You can’t be throwing it up for grabs at your five . Look the week before I said the Stephen Gilmore INT was all on Gallup . That INT at the Dallas five nearly Costs Dallas any shot at catching Philly . It was one of Daks worst games in memory .

But it wasn't "thrown up." It just looked that way because the DE beat the RT like a drum and hit Dak's arm. It's disingenuous to characterize it as some sort of heave with your eyes closed. If you watch the play you will see that had Dak been able to follow throw there is a nice window to Schultz and that's probably an easy completion.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Wow, this thread started at a low point, but actually managed to decline.
The answer, as in life, isn't Pro or Anti Dak, its somewhere in between..

Exactly. As with most things in life..it isn't only one thing or only the other.

These threads are...imho of course...just as bad as the 'it's all Dak's fault"...which is actually not very common.

Just because you start or contribute to Dak "criticize" thread....doesn't mean you think it's all Dak and the rest of the team is perfect. You don;t need a caveat or disclaimer...and people shouldn't assume it.

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

Patrick Mahomes is 19-5 when throwing 40 or more passes. Dak is 6-14.

 

[pansophy]

Never have I ever seen a QB so needlessly defended to the death. If you have to make 1000+ posts to prove your point and scrap for straws (including pulling out wild stats and situations where context is desperately needed)… doesn’t that mean he’s a problem? Why do people so desperately defend him? Why have multiple people been fired because of his incompetence? There’s a single denominator and it’s Dak. It’s not hard to understand and it doesn’t make you a bad fan for criticizing and pointing out an extreme Achilles heel of your team.

Top 3 offense in multiple offensive categories including scoring for the last 2 years when Dak is in -- why are people so desperate to disparage him? And Moore while we are at it?

 

[blueblood70]

There has been a lot of brain dead talk lately about the Cowboys' record when Dak throws the ball 40 or more times. It's 6-14. But since football is a team game that got me wondering.. Why was Dak putting it up 40 or more times in the first place.. I probably kinda knew the answer but went and looked for myself. The bottom line is that pretty much the only time Dak has had to throw it 40 times it's been because the defense has been as loose as a 20 dollar you know what..

I wonder what other QBs records are when their defenses are giving up 30 or more. I bet it aint all that good. None of which is to say Dak doesn't need to play better. Just that these cherry picked numbers in a vacuum don't really tell you a whole lot. The team is 6-14 when giving up a boatload of points. Shocking right? How many times Dak threw the ball probably didn't have much to do with it. In those 14 losses the defense held the opponent to under 20 points twice. Philly in 2019 and KC in 2021. They managed to hold the opponent under 30 three other times.. So in those 14 losses that the talking heads beat their chests about the Cowboys gave up at least 30 points 9 times.

But I can already hear it.. If Dak had only thrown it less the defense would have given up fewer points.. Because we can't play defense if the offense is throwing the ball more than 40 times. It's apparently against the rules. I suspect the defense being porous probably had a lot to do with all those pass attempts. Not every time.. but I would wager more often than not, the pass heavy games featured the defense coming out flat and letting the other team waltz up and down the field, which in turn gave Kellen Moore the excuse he needed to just start slingin it every down!!

$20 that was precovid, about 40$ now LOL

 

[thunderpimp91]

But it wasn't "thrown up." It just looked that way because the DE beat the RT like a drum and hit Dak's arm. It's disingenuous to characterize it as some sort of heave with your eyes closed. If you watch the play you will see that had Dak been able to follow throw there is a nice window to Schultz and that's probably an easy completion.

I think this is pretty accurate, but I also think it's part of the reason we see the Cowboys with such a poor record when they throw the ball 40+ times. Outside of the elite of the elite I don't think any QBs can win that way consistently. When you put the ball in the air you have 3 possible outcomes and two of them are not good.

It isnt necessarily a knock on Dak to say the offense needs a less is more approach to the passing game for better results, I think this is true for teams without a Mahomes or in their prime Brady/Rogers/Manning/etc. Receivers can still run the wrong routes, QBs get pressured, sometimes DBs just make amazing plays on the ball, and bad things happen.

I do think this does get enhanced with Dak because playing off the run game amplifies his skillset though. Just look at how accurate the guy is when he is throwing the ball 25 times and playing off play action, and even getting a few designed plays where he can keep the ball and take off.

No one had an issue when it was Troy Aikman playing that way. This team has the offensive set up to run the ball well and often. Control the TOP, set Dak up to take advantage of play action. You sling the ball 40-50 times a game it plays a significant part in allowing the other team to put up more points as well. Pass heavy attacks tend to lead to more big plays, which are great but you're also giving the ball back to defense quicker. You also keep more time on the clock and tend to more vulnerable to turnovers.

 

[RonWashington]

Against Jax the offense they throw out there Dallas has to treat possessions at a premium . The three stooges offense in Houston won’t be around to forgive the sins of turnovers .

 

[kskboys]

Against Jax the offense they throw out there Dallas has to treat possessions at a premium . The three stooges offense in Houston won’t be around to forgive the sins of turnovers .

Well said.

JAX is a team on the rise. And they have an O.

 

[jwooten15]

it’s really sad that you struggle with the simplest analysis. We aren’t losing or give up big points because the qb is throwing 40 times. We are throwing 40 times because we are either losing or the defense is giving up lots of points.

Well said. Logic is lost on a lot of people

 

[Proof]

I'm pretty sure I actually just said that.. Or did the phrase "defense was loose as a 20 dollar you know what" fly over your head? Or maybe you just argue just to be arguing.

he doesnt know how to interpret things he reads.

 

[dlobell]

At no point should we be throwing it 40 times unless we are so far behind that we are forced to.
So for this year, remind me what game we were forced to throw because we were down by so much that we had to.

 

[Aftershock]

Agreed that Dak isn’t the sole reason we lose if 40 pass attempts are thrown. Poor defense does contribute as well. But that’s not to say Dak is absolvable either - as I’m sure poor starts, low offensive output, and poor 3rd down conversion rates contribute to that as well - allowing opposing offenses with short fields.

 

[Direwolf63]

QB's throwing 40, 50 or more times is generally because their teams are behind. This is common throughout the league. Nobody goes in gameplanning to throw 50 times. Game situations dictate it.

What separates QB's is the ability to come from behind and win those types of games. So Dak at 6-14 would probable make him average to below average. Top guys like Mahomes, Allen and the like are probable above .500, but not by a lot. Most QB's likely have losing records in these situations.

 

[nobody]

I think it's a chicken or the egg situation here. Typically the offense starts slow, going three and out a lot in the first half. The offense is usually a second half kind of team. Unfortunately that has repercussions. It exhausts the defense. That's why TOP is critical to keeping your defense fresh.

It's often why Dallas gets way behind and then abandons the run, struggling to catch up. That being said, sometimes the defense for whatever reasons starts off weak too. Take the Houston game. The defense sort of sucked the first half. In the second half it was stellar.

But generally when Dak throws that much more than runs, it's to play catch up and usually it's because the offense laid an egg in the first half (or Moore gets a wild hair up his butt to inexplicably abandon the run).

Note: I'm not saying any of this is Dak's fault. Some of it might be, some might not. But what is a problem is that the offense often starts slow. That puts the defense on the field more often and for longer. It's pretty simple. You're going to get more porous the more your defense is exhausted because the offense can't maintain TOP.