3-4 Update

[junk]

Thanks for your reply/opinion:

1) I throw a lot of draft thoughts out but Ware/Merriman. Spears and Miller/LB in two was my consensus and prediction.

So we agree Ngata/Davis are BPA at #18.

Of the tackles I like Justice the best if he passes vice/character ?! Pass tho on Tackle - Fabini

Carpenter/Wimbley/Lawson - some combination will be there in round 2.

Klopf is probably off by 3rd round we are up. This Fassano I have not dug in on. What is his injury background? I know he's a late day 1 prospect. Roids? He was 180 pounds out of High School.....


Can't wait for draft!

Ngata/Davis might be BPA at 18. Depends on who else is on the board although they would probably be good value there. I'd work real hard to trade down if it was Davis.

I think Wimbley might be around at 18 in 2. I wouldn't be surprised to see Carpenter and Lawson off the board. Lots of 3-4 teams at the end of 1, top of 2 that are LB hungry. Pats might be looking for a SOLB if they cut ties with McGinest (or just to add youth to a pretty old group). Niners could probably use a whole LB'ing corps. Cleveland desperately needs an edge rusher (and a NT....prime competition for Maake/Watson if they don't get Ngata in 1).

I agree on Fabini. Think Dallas should sign him. I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a young guy in 2 or 3 though. This would probably be a good year to try to deal back.

Fasano draws comparisons to Bavaro....which immediately makes him a potential target. He is also from New Jersey. All I could find was that he missed one game due to injury although he didn't play his freshman year.

If he is on the juice, he isn't using it right. I think he only threw up something like 19 reps @ 225 (from memory, might be incorrect on that).

 

[playit12]

I'd pass on a NT in the first. I'm not exactly a fan of BPA or draft for need. I think you draft by value.

A 1-5 pick only has value for a QB or LT for instance. 6-15 would include OLB, DE, and CB. 16-32 would then be something like WR, QB, RB, RT, DT, ...

Second round would be ILB, FS, SS, WR, TE, C, OG...

Exceptional players can be drafted in one group higher than their position dictates. Sometimes two... taking higher than that often lead to putting too much salary/draft value in places that can't contribute at a level matching their compensation.

Why I say all of this is because I think our biggest needs in the draft are in order...

ILB, ILB, OLB, FS, OG, TE, OT, WR.

You can see that unless you are talking about exceptional players, most of the needs should be addressed in round 2+. Thus I'd trade down, out of the first, and pick up additoinal players to fill holes and add competetion. Alternatively you can see who has the best positional value at the time of picking and see if one of those players is a good value at that spot. For pick 18 you are looking at either a RT, DT or amazing ILB. I don't see any amazing ILBs, I don't think DT will be a value there, which really only leaves RT as an option. I still advocate trading back.

By the way I think you should stop padding yourself on the back Nors... by the time the combine had finished everyone in the world knew were focusing on players to transition to a 3-4.... that is of course Ware/Merriman and then Spears (who was considered at the time the best 3-4 end available). People were also considering Canty a lock as well.

Those same people absolutely knew that Parcells had no interest in taking a TE with an early pick (unlike you and Charles) and were predicting either another LB or a FS. I actually think we would have taken Bullocks had he slipped, but took Burnett instead when Bullocks was grabbed. (At that point in the draft the next highest rated FS was a huge step down and not worthy of a high second round pick).

So I'm not really sure what you think you picked.. now if you tell me that you got our rounds 4-7 picks right then I'll be more impressed.

 

[playit12]

By the way... long before Pioli/BB were drafting NTs and TE's they were taking

1994 - Willie McGinest - 1rst
1995 - Ted Johnson - 2nd
1996 - Brusci - 3rd
1999 - Andy Katzenmoyer - 1rst
2001 - Richard Seymour - 1rst

and only after having those guys in place...

2002 - Daniel Graham - 1rst
2003 - Ty Warren - 1rst
2004 - Vince Wilfork - 1rst
2004 - Ben Watson - 1rst

So how about this.. when I have two first round picks and a 3rd round pick that really panned out starting for me at LB then I'll look towards drafting TEs and NTs.

 

[Nors]

By the way... long before Pioli/BB were drafting NTs and TE's they were taking

1994 - Willie McGinest - 1rst
1995 - Ted Johnson - 2nd
1996 - Brusci - 3rd
1999 - Andy Katzenmoyer - 1rst
2001 - Richard Seymour - 1rst

and only after having those guys in place...

2002 - Daniel Graham - 1rst
2003 - Ty Warren - 1rst
2004 - Vince Wilfork - 1rst
2004 - Ben Watson - 1rst

So how about this.. when I have two first round picks and a 3rd round pick that really panned out starting for me at LB then I'll look towards drafting TEs and NTs.

Are you serious? You realize Pioli was in Cleveland and Jets in 1990's? You realize BB had nothing to do with Pats drafts too? He was also in Clev, Jets and few years as DC with Pats had about 0 GM input...... and yes - their drafting late 90's with Greer was putrid.....

Also, BB/Pioli were drafting for Pats starting in 2000. That was the Tom Brady draft.

So yes - the Seymour draft was their draft pick too - apparently you were not aware off that.

And thanks for making my point on drafting DT and TE in round 1.

We have McGinnest - Ware
Bruschi in 1999/2000 was a backup
Johnson was JAG ILB


Drafting Seymour, Warren, Wilfork and NT's Washington/Traylor was a critical upgrade that made front 7 dominant.

 

[playit12]

Are you serious? You realize Pioli was in Cleveland and Jets in 1990's? You realize BB had nothing to do with Pats drafts too? He was also in Clev, Jets and few years as DC with Pats had about 0 GM input...... and yes - their drafting late 90's with Greer was putrid.....

Also, BB/Pioli were drafting for Pats starting in 2000. That was the Tom Brady draft.

So yes - the Seymour draft was their draft pick too - apparently you were not aware off that.

And thanks for making my point on drafting DT and TE in round 1.

We have McGinnest - Ware
Bruschi in 1999/2000 was a backup
Johnson was JAG ILB


Drafting Seymour, Warren, Wilfork and NT's Washington/Traylor was a critical upgrade that made front 7 dominant.

I thought the point was clearn but I'll explain again... They (the Pats in general) had the freedom to draft NT because they already had those players on the team, regardless of who drafted them. As to who drafted them... I imagine several were picked up by Bill Parcells himself, but that is really a moot point. Any decent 3-4 GM or Coach would fill out his LBers before focusing on NT. You have to focus on the strength of your scheme.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Are you serious? You realize Pioli was in Cleveland and Jets in 1990's? You realize BB had nothing to do with Pats drafts too? He was also in Clev, Jets and few years as DC with Pats had about 0 GM input...... and yes - their drafting late 90's with Greer was putrid.....

Also, BB/Pioli were drafting for Pats starting in 2000. That was the Tom Brady draft.

So yes - the Seymour draft was their draft pick too - apparently you were not aware off that.

And thanks for making my point on drafting DT and TE in round 1.

We have McGinnest - Ware
Bruschi in 1999/2000 was a backup
Johnson was JAG ILB


Drafting Seymour, Warren, Wilfork and NT's Washington/Traylor was a critical upgrade that made front 7 dominant.

Nors you do realize that linebackers are part of the front 7 right?

 

[Hostile]

Nors you do realize that linebackers are part of the front 7 right?

Is that a trick question?

 

[junk]

Going into the season with Shanle/Fowler/Burnett as your hopes at ILB is like going into the season with Petitti, Rogers and Tucker as your hopes at RT.

Parcells spent all last season complaining about LB depth (as he should have, they really didn't have the players to pull of a LB heavy scheme). Now chances are good that Singleton and Fujita won't be back.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him go to the OLB well twice on draft day.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Is that a trick question?

LOL!


It appears that Nor's front 7 consist of only 3 players!

 

[Hostile]

LOL!


It appears that Nor's front 7 consist of only 3 players!

What do you expect from a system that keeps All Pro TEs at DE?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Going into the season with Shanle/Fowler/Burnett as your hopes at ILB is like going into the season with Petitti, Rogers and Tucker as your hopes at RT.

Parcells spent all last season complaining about LB depth (as he should have, they really didn't have the players to pull of a LB heavy scheme). Now chances are good that Singleton and Fujita won't be back.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him go to the OLB well twice on draft day.

I wouldn't either. An early rounder and a later rounder.

 

[AsthmaField]

What do you expect from a system that keeps All Pro TEs at DE?

Ah, that's too funny!