30 for 30: Rand University

[cowboyfan4lyfe]

What I heard at the time of Moss coming out. All the trouble Michael Irving was going thru Jerry didn't want to take that chance with Moss. He already had plan to build the new stadium also. But that was the reason he took the chance with Dez. Gotta give GM JJ credit for that

 

[scottsp]

Understanding the dynamic with the Irvin issues at the time, still would have rather taken Moss. We are trying to restock young talent on an aging club, whose best years were clearly in the rear-view by that point.

Despite Michael's run-ins, he still had quite a bit in the tank. While he was productive with guys like Anthony Miller the year before, then Billy Davis and Ernie Mills in '98, he and Troy couldn't quite duplicate the really great performances against quality defenses scheming (and able) to take #88 away. There was no Jay Novacek serving as the security blanket anymore.

The offense in '98 was really good, as it was. Put a first-ballot HOF on the other side, making the Playmaker a top-flight possession receiver, God help a defense with that one.

All that aside, Greg Ellis was a solid contributor and Dallas could have done worse. At least we weren't Curtis Enis-ed or Ryan Leaf-ed.

 

[KJJ]

Just finished watching it. Do y'all feel we did right in passing him? Had we drafted him would it have elevated our offense to heights never before seen?

What's your take?

Had the Cowboys drafted Moss there would have been no waste of the two #1's on Joey Galloway 2 years later. Doubt Moss would have had the career he did in Minn with the Cowboys who were in decline and only 2 years away from Aikman being released. Some think Moss would have helped extend Aikman's career but I seriously doubt it. Once Aikman was gone Moss would have been stuck on a bad Cowboys team with a series of average QB's who couldn't get the ball down the field. One big reason Galloway didn't pan out with the Cowboys was due to him being a stretch the field deep threat and the Cowboys didn't have a QB or a solid pass protecting OL to get the ball down the field to him. Moss benefitted from going to Minn having first Randall Cunnigham and later Culpepper who could launch the ball down the field and having a great receiver like Chris Carter opposite him to take him under his wing.

The Cowboys didn't have a Chris Carter to take pressure off Moss on the field and to help him off the field. The Vikings not only had Carter but another excellent veteran receiver in Jake Reed which allowed Minn to work Moss in until he took over for an aging Reed. Once Moss left Minn for Oakland he looked washed up on a bad Raiders team that was having QB issues in 05 and 06. With Aikman and the Cowboys in decline Mosses production in Dallas likely would have been closer to what he produced in Oakland than what he produced in Minn and later on with NE. The first 2 years with Aikman might have been pretty good but once Aikman was gone and Anthony Wright, Quincy Carter, Ryan Leaf, Chad Hutchinson and the rest of the stiffs took their turns behind center it wouldn't have gone very well. Moss would have gotten frustrated with the team and it would have led to problems.

 

[KJJ]

One point I failed to make was had the Cowboys drafted Moss he would have had Irvin opposite him but they would have only played 20 games together due to Irvin's career ending injury in 99. The fact the Cowboys still had Irvin who had off the field problems was the main reason Jerry passed on Moss. With the concerns about Mosses character Jerry was afraid to pull the trigger and draft Moss after what he went through with Irvin.

 

[tyke1doe]

One point I failed to make was had the Cowboys drafted Moss he would have had Irvin opposite him but they would have only played 20 games together due to Irvin's career ending injury in 99. The fact the Cowboys still had Irvin who had off the field problems was the main reason Jerry passed on Moss. With the concerns about Mosses character Jerry was afraid to pull the trigger and draft Moss after what he went through with Irvin.

But is Irvin in the same position to take the hit that ended his career if Moss is on the team? Or was Irvin's injury a congenital injury?

 

[DFWJC]

Watched it.
Those 30 for 30s are excellent.

 

[joseephuss]

But is Irvin in the same position to take the hit that ended his career if Moss is on the team? Or was Irvin's injury a congenital injury?

I believe Irvin's injury was congenital that only was diagnosed because of the hit he took.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

At the time i hated that we passed on him because I definitely wanted him in Dallas but I understood why we did.

Irvin was an off the field terrible influence at the time. The Randy Moss the whole world got to see would not have been the Randy Moss the whole world would have seen in Dallas because Irvin would have very likely led him completely the wrong way off the field at the time.

Cris Carter was the perfect WR for him to be paired with and learn with and from. It allowed Randy Moss to do what he did.

I know everyone just envisions this idea that Moss would have still been the same guy in Dallas and see Troy Aikman to Moss bombs all day long and that added dimension adding another title or two in Big D but I really don't believe you'd have seen any of that. Moss needed a guy like Carter to help him more off the field, than on, and he simply wouldn't have gotten that from Irvin.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Wasn't Aikman the QB when he was drafted?

Yes but let's be realistic here about Troy. He had taken a life time of beatings playing football. Having Randy Moss wouldn't have kept Aikman from taking hits, he'd have still gotten hit, and he was always just one hit away from being done due to concussions.

It's just as likely even with Moss to throw to that someone like Arrington would have hit him and concussed him and forced his career to end. Then you'd have had a Randy Moss who very likely was being shown all the wrong ways to do things off the field then also getting thrown to by people like Quincy Carter.

 

[Future]

Moss is the most talented WR to ever play the game.

Passing on him b/c we thought Irvin was a bad influence was a mistake even if he wasn't that good.

 

[joseephuss]

Moss is the most talented WR to ever play the game.

Passing on him b/c we thought Irvin was a bad influence was a mistake even if he wasn't that good.

Drafting him wouldn't have brought a Superbowl to Dallas, either. It wasn't just because Irvin may have been a bad influence. It was because Moss wasn't reliable. No one questioned his talent on the field. They questioned on whether he would be able to stay on the field. I think there was a very good chance he would have folded under the pressure of playing for the Cowboys.

 

[Future]

Drafting him wouldn't have brought a Superbowl to Dallas, either. It wasn't just because Irvin may have been a bad influence. It was because Moss wasn't reliable. No one questioned his talent on the field. They questioned on whether he would be able to stay on the field. I think there was a very good chance he would have folded under the pressure of playing for the Cowboys.

Only a Cowboys fan would think that.

Moss was in the spotlight from Day 1 in Minny.

 

[joseephuss]

Only a Cowboys fan would think that.

Moss was in the spotlight from Day 1 in Minny.

And the spotlight in Dallas would have been tenfold. Same if he would have been drafted for several other teams. The pressure in Minnesota is just not as great as it is in other locations with Dallas being one of them.

 

[Future]

And the spotlight in Dallas would have been tenfold. Same if he would have been drafted for several other teams. The pressure in Minnesota is just not as great as it is in other locations with Dallas being one of them.

Eh.

I just don't buy that, especially not for a guy like Randy Moss who has never really cared at all about what the media or fans think about him.

 

[THEHEREAFTER]

I think this led to NOT passing on DEZ.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Saw Moss play high school basketball with Jason Williams. It was unbelievable to watch them together.
Pretty sure Williams was the QB throwing to Moss, but they never mentioned that last night.

I remember when all of that mess was going on. Lot's of people said he wasn't involved in the fight itself, .. I would love to know the truth.

He is extremely lucky that he was such a gifted athlete, because if he wasn't, he would just be at the 7-11 with some of his other buddies.

 

[Stash]

If Jerry would've taken Moss he wouldn't have burned two first rd picks on Joey Galloway.

This is the one that I can't help but think about.

And that could have led to so many other different decisions too.

Might have had a first round pick to use on a guy like Steve Hutchinson to take over for Larry Allen at guard?

Or possibly been in position to draft a Tom Brady or Drew Brees to take over once Aikman was done?

It's all speculation of course, but that one move could have had a huge rippled effect that changed the fate of this franchise for a decade.

 

[joseephuss]

Eh.

I just don't buy that, especially not for a guy like Randy Moss who has never really cared at all about what the media or fans think about him.

He sure seemed to care that Dallas did not draft him.

 

[Wayne02]

He sure seemed to care that Dallas did not draft him.

That's because he was strung along by Jerry Jones that he would be drafted by the Cowboys only to be passed on, I would feel some type of way about that too.

 

[Future]

He sure seemed to care that Dallas did not draft him.

He grew up a Cowboys fan, that doesn't mean there's any more pressure playing there.

I'm sure there are guys every year who are butthurt that their favorite team didn't pick them.