30 for 30: Rand University

[joseephuss]

This is the one that I can't help but think about.

And that could have led to so many other different decisions too.

Might have had a first round pick to use on a guy like Steve Hutchinson to take over for Larry Allen at guard?

Or possibly been in position to draft a Tom Brady or Drew Brees to take over once Aikman was done?

It's all speculation of course, but that one move could have had a huge rippled effect that changed the fate of this franchise for a decade.

Dallas was in position to draft Tom Brady and/or Drew Brees. They didn't need to replace Allen at left guard in 2000 or 2001. They needed other guys on the line to play alongside Allen.

 

[Stash]

Dallas was in position to draft Tom Brady and/or Drew Brees. They didn't need to replace Allen at left guard in 2000 or 2001. They needed other guys on the line to play alongside Allen.

How were the Cowboys in position to draft Brees?

Even better! Can you imagine having both Allen and Hutchinson at the guard positions?

 

[KJJ]

But is Irvin in the same position to take the hit that ended his career if Moss is on the team? Or was Irvin's injury a congenital injury?

Irvin had cervical spinal stenosis (narrow spinal column) which was discovered after his injury. It's a condition he had his entire life and it took that injury to discover it. Having Moss wasn't going to keep the Cowboys from throwing to Irvin. He caught a lot of balls in his career and the same injury could have happened early in his career.

 

[KJJ]

Dallas was in position to draft Tom Brady and/or Drew Brees.

The Cowboys weren't in position to draft Brees he was the first pick in the 2nd round #32 overall. The Cowboys first pick in that draft was Quincy Carter at #53 and they had to trade up to get him.

 

[KJJ]

Moss is the most talented WR to ever play the game.

Passing on him b/c we thought Irvin was a bad influence was a mistake even if he wasn't that good.

Moss scared off 20 other teams on draft day if anyone made a mistake it was Tenn who drafted WR Kevin Dyson ahead of Moss. Tenn was an up and coming team that was only 2 years away from reaching the SB. Drafting Moss could have put them over the top having a QB like McNair. Irvin was just coming off an arrest and suspension in 96. His character was in serious question as was Mosses so you can't blame Jerry for passing on Moss at the time. The Cowboys were a declining team and a deep threat WR wouldn't have worked once Aikman was released. We saw what happened with Joey Galloway in Dallas who was a very talented deep threat WR.

Galloway and Moss weren't possession receivers which is what the Cowboys needed with their QB situation. They needed a receiver who could move the chains consistently and could catch balls in traffic. When Parcells arrived he saw the issues the Cowboys were having and swapped Galloway for Keyshawn who was a big bodied possession receiver. Galloway never had a 1000 yard season for the Cowboys but had 3 straight 1000 yard seasons for Tampa including a career high 1287 yards in 05 because he was a better fit with the Bucs. Moss wouldn't have been a good fit with a declining Cowboys team and once Parcels arrived he would have sent him packing due to his antics/taking plays off.

 

[Stash]

Moss scared off 20 other teams on draft day if anyone made a mistake it was Tenn who drafted WR Kevin Dyson ahead of Moss. Tenn was an up and coming team that was only 2 years away from reaching the SB. Drafting Moss could have put them over the top having a QB like McNair. Irvin was just coming off an arrest and suspension in 96. His character was in serious question as was Mosses so you can't blame Jerry for passing on Moss at the time.

No disputing the risks that would have been involved. That was clearly the rationale behind the Cowboys passing on him.

The Cowboys were a declining team and a deep threat WR wouldn't have worked once Aikman was released. We saw what happened with Joey Galloway in Dallas who was a very talented deep threat WR.

The Cowboys were certainly a declining team, largely due to age, free agency, and attrition. But a once-in-a-lifetime talent like Randy Moss helps any team, no matter what.

Galloway's failure in Dallas was due to an inept staff not knowing what to do with what they had. His talent was always evident.

Galloway and Moss weren't possession receivers which is what the Cowboys needed with their QB situation. They needed a receiver who could move the chains consistently and could catch balls in traffic. When Parcells arrived he saw the issues the Cowboys were having and swapped Galloway for Keyshawn who was a big bodied possession receiver. Galloway never had a 1000 yard season for the Cowboys but had 3 straight 1000 yard seasons for Tampa including a career high 1287 yards in 05 because he was a better fit with the Bucs. Moss wouldn't have been a good fit with a declining Cowboys team and once Parcels arrived he would have sent him packing due to his antics/taking plays off.

Again, this issue was with the Cowboys, not either of these players. One of Parcells' biggest flaws late in his career was that he was a dinosaur, stuck in a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" mentality. The slow as molasses Keyshawn Johnson was getting cut in Tampa Bay and Parcells never needed to give up anything for him. He would have gotten him for nothing once Gruden ran him out of town.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Even Jerry admits the mistake. Had we drafted him, it would have also spared us the Joey Galloway trade. So, there was a huge domino effect from that mistake.


"I apologize, I apologize, I apologize," Jones said of his decision to pass on Moss

 

[Future]

Galloway and Moss weren't possession receivers which is what the Cowboys needed with their QB situation. They needed a receiver who could move the chains consistently and could catch balls in traffic. When Parcells arrived he saw the issues the Cowboys were having and swapped Galloway for Keyshawn who was a big bodied possession receiver. Galloway never had a 1000 yard season for the Cowboys but had 3 straight 1000 yard seasons for Tampa including a career high 1287 yards in 05 because he was a better fit with the Bucs. Moss wouldn't have been a good fit with a declining Cowboys team and once Parcels arrived he would have sent him packing due to his antics/taking plays off.

Your timeline is way off. Moss was drafted in 1998, Parcells didn't get to Dallas until 2003.

In 1998, Michael Irvin had over 1000 yards. The year before, he had 75 catches for almost 1200 and 9 touchdowns. Dallas had the ultimate possession receiver in Irvin...making Moss a deep threat and an absolutely perfect fit.

 

[joseephuss]

The Cowboys weren't in position to draft Brees he was the first pick in the 2nd round #32 overall. The Cowboys first pick in that draft was Quincy Carter at #53 and they had to trade up to get him.

Dallas initially traded their 2nd round pick( #37 overall) to Indy to get a later pick in round two and a third. They could have used that pick plus another to move up ahead of San Diego at #32 overall to get Brees. They were in position to get him by trading up. Trading up from #53 overall is a much more difficult task, but trading up from #37 isn't that hard.

 

[Stash]

Dallas initially traded their 2nd round pick( #37 overall) to Indy to get a later pick in round two and a third. They could have used that pick plus another to move up ahead of San Diego at #32 overall to get Brees. They were in position to get him by trading up. Trading up from #53 overall is a much more difficult task, but trading up from #37 isn't that hard.

OK. But you're "in position' comment indicated to us that they simply could have drafted him.

If they had drafted Moss, they wouldn't have made the Galloway trade and still would have had those two first round draft picks and been able to draft several future Hall of Fame players that were available, Brees included.

 

[KJJ]

Dallas initially traded their 2nd round pick( #37 overall) to Indy to get a later pick in round two and a third. They could have used that pick plus another to move up ahead of San Diego at #32 overall to get Brees. They were in position to get him by trading up. Trading up from #53 overall is a much more difficult task, but trading up from #37 isn't that hard.

The Cowboys entered that draft not having a #1 pick due to the Joey Galloway trade so they were looking to add picks. What you're suggesting would have been too costly a trade up because San Diego targeted Brees. From the reports I read the Cowboys weren't that high on Brees. Jerry became enamored with Carter weeks before the 01 draft he saw visions of Donovan McNabb. It's easy to look back and say the Cowboys should have drafted Brees now that he's become a future HOF QB but a lot of teams weren't that high on Brees at the time.

He struggled in San Diego prompting the Chargers to draft Eli with the #1 overall pick 3 years later before trading him for Rivers. The 01 draft was an awful draft for the Cowboys. They traded up for Carter who some rated as a 3rd or 4th round pick. They then traded two 3rd round picks to move up and draft Tony Dixon who most had a 4th round grade on.

 

[erod]

This was not the place for a guy like Randy Moss at that time. It would have been a grenade waiting to go off.

There were no rules, no boundaries, and no holds barred around here, even from the owner. Moss would have imploded.

 

[joseephuss]

The Cowboys entered that draft not having a #1 pick due to the Joey Galloway trade so they were looking to add picks. What you're suggesting would have been too costly a trade up because San Diego targeted Brees. From the reports I read the Cowboys weren't that high on Brees. Jerry became enamored with Carter weeks before the 01 draft he saw visions of Donovan McNabb. It's easy to look back and say the Cowboys should have drafted Brees now that he's become a future HOF QB but a lot of teams weren't that high on Brees at the time.

He struggled in San Diego prompting the Chargers to draft Eli with the #1 overall pick 3 years later before trading him for Rivers. The 01 draft was an awful draft for the Cowboys. They traded up for Carter who some rated as a 3rd or 4th round pick. They then traded two 3rd round picks to move up and draft Tony Dixon who most had a 4th round grade on.

I don't think they would have drafted Brees if they still had their original first round pick(the one they traded to Seattle). They could have, but I don't think they would have.

 

[Stash]

I don't think they would have drafted Brees if they still had their original first round pick(the one they traded to Seattle). They could have, but I don't think they would have.

Unfortunately, you're probably right. As I remember, the height stigma at the time had a lot of teams underestimating Brees' talent. And the Cowboys of that era were particularly clueless with their scouting.

 

[joseephuss]

OK. But you're "in position' comment indicated to us that they simply could have drafted him.

If they had drafted Moss, they wouldn't have made the Galloway trade and still would have had those two first round draft picks and been able to draft several future Hall of Fame players that were available, Brees included.

Yes, it would have given them more options had they not traded those picks away to Seattle. I never thought it was a good trade. Still there were plenty of guys they could have drafted that weren't Hall of Fame players or even good contributors had they kept those picks. Passing on Moss didn't dictate that they make that Galloway trade. Those are two separate deals in my opinion.

 

[Stash]

Yes, it would have given them more options had they not traded those picks away to Seattle. I never thought it was a good trade. Still there were plenty of guys they could have drafted that weren't Hall of Fame players or even good contributors had they kept those picks. Passing on Moss didn't dictate that they make that Galloway trade. Those are two separate deals in my opinion.

So, you're saying that they still would have traded for Galloway even if they had drafted Moss?

I'd have to disagree, Moss was essentially a stud right out of the box and arguably the league's best deep threat as a rookie. Trading for Galloway would have been both unnecessary and redundant and I can't see the team doing that.

Even that bunch of dummies!

 

[joseephuss]

So, you're saying that they still would have traded for Galloway even if they had drafted Moss?

I'd have to disagree, Moss was essentially a stud right out of the box and arguably the league's best deep threat as a rookie. Trading for Galloway would have been both unnecessary and redundant and I can't see the team doing that.

Even that bunch of dummies!

No, I don't think they would have done that trade had they drafted Moss. I just don't think passing on Moss made them do the trade, either. It was two independent decisions.

 

[DFWJC]

Dallas was in position to draft Tom Brady and/or Drew Brees. They didn't need to replace Allen at left guard in 2000 or 2001. They needed other guys on the line to play alongside Allen.

Not Brees.

But the whole league passed on Brady 4-6 times. Amazing

 

[Stash]

No, I don't think they would have done that trade had they drafted Moss. I just don't think passing on Moss made them do the trade, either. It was two independent decisions.

Oh, OK, now I understand what you meant.

I think the imperative that they had was to have a game-changing #1 receiver for Aikman to throw to for the rest of his career.

I'm sure that they believed that they had a lot more years of the triplets left than they ended up having.

And once Irvin went down, they moved quickly (and some would say recklessly) to find a replacement.

And they did the same when Aikman hung 'em up and they drafted Quincy Carter.

Too very reactive moves, not well thought out, which yielded disastrous results.

 

[joseephuss]

Oh, OK, now I understand what you meant.

I think the imperative that they had was to have a game-changing #1 receiver for Aikman to throw to for the rest of his career.

I'm sure that they believed that they had a lot more years of the triplets left than they ended up having.

And once Irvin went down, they moved quickly (and some would say recklessly) to find a replacement.

And they did the same when Aikman hung 'em up and they drafted Quincy Carter.

Too very reactive moves, not well thought out, which yielded disastrous results.

Which is why I didn't trust them even had they not made the Galloway trade. They probably would have just packaged those two #1s along with some other picks to draft Michael Vick.