4 rookies starting on defense, plus two FAs?

Discussion in 'Roster Zone' started by gimmesix, May 24, 2021.

  1. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    Watkins had more pass rushing success last year than any of our other tackles. I think he's a rotation player who most likely needs to be limited to interior pass rusher in the nickel. He played DE/DT for Houston, but my understanding is that he wasn't real good against the run. Until someone proves otherwise, though, he might be our best pass-rushing DT, although that's not really saying all that much.
     
  2. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    Yes, Watkins was a 3-4 DE for the Texans and could play that role here (and maybe that's why Quinn brought him in since he did start 10 games last year). I just haven't read much good about him as a run stopper. If Quinn's base is a 3-4 hybrid on run downs, I don't know if Watkins is a good fit for that.
     
  3. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    Although we will be in the nickel a majority of the time, it is not considered our base defense ... at least not by our defensive coordinator, who has said the 3-4 is his base. As others have pointed out in other threads, this most likely is a 3-4 disguised as a 4-3, with Lawrence playing down as the LEO or DPR. However, I'm a little iffy about it because those predictions are based on what Quinn did in Seattle and Atlanta and he has said that he tweaked his scheme after being fired by Atlanta because he "didn't want to do just another rinse and repeat."
     
  4. fivetwos

    fivetwos Well-Known Member

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    Agree with you here.

    I still have no idea why any team threw one single pass against us last year, but they couldn't help themselves.

    Stopping the run used to be paramount.

    Now I'd say it's about trying to steal a possession or two via turnover, and getting off the field on 3rd down.

    Fans are a bit starved for a big guy in the middle, so Bohannon is the savior.
     
  5. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    Bohanna is not a savior. He's a role player. That role is to clog the middle and force offenses to use extra blockers to try to move him on run downs. Players like him are available later in the draft because they can't rush the passer and have very specified roles.

    It think this idea that he's just a sixth-round pick is silly because his position/role doesn't get drafted early like DTs who can rush the passer well (like Barmore in the second round) and DTs who can stop the run but also have a little pass rushing ability (like McNeill in the third).

    We got Bohanna in the sixth round simply because of the role he plays. He's a one-down or two-down lineman, depending on the distance. If it's first-and-10, he'll probably be out there. If it's second-and-5 (maybe 4) or shorter, he'll probably be out there. If it's third-and-1, he'll probably be out there.
     
  6. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

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    The point is that it doesn't matter what you call base. You can call punt defense your base if you want.

    But if a guy is going to be a rotational piece in any defense that isn't nickel, he's not a particularly important piece overall and isn't going to play a lot of snaps.
     
  7. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    If we don't stop the run on first down, then the opponent is going to keep running the ball and he's going to be out there a whole lot more than we'd like. If he's doing his job, then he won't be out there much, which is what we want and certainly makes him an important piece overall.
     
  8. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Well-Known Member

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    I dont think a lot of those guys are making it. Armstrong, Carter, Anae, Watkins, Hamilton. Maybe one of those guys makes it. Two at the most.
     
    CowboysFaninHouston likes this.
  9. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Well-Known Member

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    So you are saying that a 3rd and 6th round rookies are going to start over guys like Gregory and Gallimore? I cant believe that until I see it.

    I think a lot of you guys put too much emphasis on a rookies ability to start in the NFL, especially on defense.

    The secondary you have up there is all set. Those are the guys. Unless Kazee isnt healthy.
     
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  10. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    I'm not saying they are going to get more playing time than Gregory or Gallimore. I think their playing time is specific to a role, particularly in the pseudo-3-4 defense. I think both were drafted with those roles in mind, but Dallas also believes Osa can play 3-tech in the 4-3.

    Gallimore and Gregory should both play 60 percent of the snaps or more since both will be out there on most nickel snaps. Bohanna will be out there about 30 percent of the time, depending on how the run defense does. Odighizuwa's snaps in the nickel will depend on what he shows.

    I think early in the season, there's a better chance of Gallimore and Hill/Watkins being out there as the 4-3 DTs than Odighizuwa, but ideally, Osa would push Watkins/Hill to the sideline as the season progresses.

    I do think Gregory will get some snaps in the 3-4 fronts in the role that Lawrence plays because I don't think we want to have Lawrence out there on all the early downs and not have him available on the passing downs because he's tired. I also expect to see Basham, who's a good run defender, out there some in that DPR/LEO role. (Maybe Golston, too, but we might see him as a small 3-4 end, and I think his primary role will be as an inside rusher.)

    Starting is such a loose term with the players who will be out there in the 3-4 fronts because that group might be out there the least, if they are doing a good job of stopping the run. A player like Urban, for instance, also falls into that category, because we don't want him out there in pass defense.
     
  11. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Well-Known Member

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    Would love to see Bohanna starting games in the middle, but I just have a hard time believing a 6th rounder can come in and play even 30% of the snaps. I think they whiffed bad on getting a guy like McNeil in the 3rd. We shall see.

    One thing for sure is that most people seemed confused about what they are doing on the Dline. Seems like we have lots of specialty guys and are missing the true stud that can just play the position for most of the game.
     
  12. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    I don't disagree with you on missing the true stud. Although I think there are some players in the draft who maybe could have fit that mold, it really wasn't a good draft to find one. I would have preferred that we go hard in free agency after someone like Tomlinson, but that's not the Cowboys' way now.

    However, I do think Bohanna is being viewed wrongly just because he was taken in the sixth round. He didn't last until that round because of how he can play against the run; he lasted until the sixth because he offers nothing against the pass. Look at the DTs in this draft and where they were taken. McNeill, a player I valued, lasted until the third because he's a stud run defender with a questionable amount of ability against the draft. The run-only DTs weren't taken until the fourth round on because teams just don't like to spend a first- or second-day pick on a one- or two-down player. That doesn't mean Bohanna can't be really, really good at that role. He just doesn't offer more than that.

    If we had taken a 3-tech in the sixth round, I would think that player had a very slim chance of making the roster. A pure 1-tech in the sixth round is about like taking a fullback or kicker at that point. It's around the point where they go.
     
  13. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Well-Known Member

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    I really wanted Mcneil as well. I think they got caught napping hoping that either McNeil or Milton would fall and missed out on both. Osa wound up being the booby prize. Probably my biggest issue with the draft was NOT trading up to make sure they got McNeil when he was dropping.
     
  14. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    I think McNeill will be an every-down player. Bohanna will only be a specialty player. That doesn't mean he won't be good at his specialty, but it does handicap us when he is in the game. Both he and Urban add little to nothing as pass rushers, so that benefits offenses when they decide to pass on first down.

    Like you said, if we had that true stud who could stuff the run and also collapse the pocket on the passer, we'd be much better off. Unfortunately, the only player we have who is a stud run defender and pass rusher is Lawrence ... and without someone to take pressure off him by putting some pressure on the passer, he's always going to be chipped, doubled, etc., to take him away.

    Hopefully, Parsons' ability to attack will help take some of the attention off Lawrence. If we do play "bigs" like Urban, Bohanna and Odighizuwa on first down, we're going to have to bring Parsons when teams choose to pass. I'm hopeful Osa can get some pressure in those situations as well, but I question if he can do that as a rookie. I think he'll be strong against the run, but it seems to take young defensive tackles a little longer to find themselves as pass rushers.
     
  15. J-man

    J-man Well-Known Member

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    IMO, the starting D-line in base 4-3 will be D-Law Gallimore Urban Gregory.
     
  16. kskboys

    kskboys Well-Known Member

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    Galley and Urban play the same position, and Urban is strictly a good rotational player. If he's starting, then we've done a poor job of team building again.
     
  17. kskboys

    kskboys Well-Known Member

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    You don't think BigBo will be a pocket collapser? His scouting report says he is capable.

    Collapsing the pocket is actually a huge part of the pass rush, though Jerry does not understand this.
     
  18. J-man

    J-man Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya, but IMHO, we don't really have many choices for the 1T. Guys big enough and capable of playing it are Hill, Gallimore, Urban, Bohanna, Hamilton and Watkins. Hill is ok and hopefully still improving so maybe he wins the job. I think Gally is best at the 3T, but can slid to the 1T on passing downs. I highly doubt Bohanna is anything but a rotational goal line/short yardage insert, at least to start the season.
    I really don't know what to expect for Watkins but I guess we'll see. Hamiltion is a JAG.

    So although undersized for the 1T, I just think at this point Urban is probably an upgrade in the run defense over Hill.
     
  19. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    It will be a bonus if he can. At this point, if he can just hold his ground and either force a second lineman to have to stay on him in order to move him or clog a running lane, he's an upgrade over what we got from the position last year. It's hard for even good college pass rushers to get much pressure their rookie year, so I'm not expecting that from him.
     
  20. timb2

    timb2 Well-Known Member

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    Starters on run downs

    RDE
    Chauncey Gholston

    RDT
    Trysten Hill

    LDT
    Quinton Bohanna


    LDE
    Brett Urban


    WLB
    Jaylen Smith


    MLB
    Leighton Vander Esch


    SLB
    Francis Bernard


    CB
    Israel Mukamu


    CB
    Nashon Wright


    FS
    Donavan Wilson


    SS
    Keanu Neal





    STARTERS on Passing Downs

    RDE
    Randy Gregory


    RDT
    Osa Odighizuwa


    LDT
    Neville Gallimore


    LDE
    DeMarcus Lawrence


    LB
    Jabril Cox


    LB
    Micah Parsons


    CB
    Trevon Diggs


    CB
    Kelvin Joseph


    CB
    Jourdan Lewis


    FS
    Damontae Kazee


    SS
    Reggie Robinson
     

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