A Look At Ted Ginn Jr.

[Wolfpack]

So your point is that he can be taken out of a game? Why are the other receivers not so easily taken out of a game?

quote]

That would be classified as a "reach" under english debating rules.

Do you room with a guy named Nors by chance ?

 

[ravidubey]

Nice analysis. Based on these numbers, we should just wait and sign him as an undrafted FA.

Thank you. Goes to show what little stats really mean, especially college stats. Watch the players play the game, please.

 

[theogt]

That would be classified as a "reach" under english debating rules.

Do you room with a guy named Nors by chance ?

His point was that Ginn's stats were low, but that low stats can be mitigated by the fact that he was double-teamed, and that double-teams should count towards his production. I agree that it does. But that also means that he was effectively taken out of a game by the opposing team.

If he's such a remarkable talent, his production shouldn't suffer because of double teams.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

His point was that Ginn's stats were low, but that low stats can be mitigated by the fact that he was double-teamed, and that double-teams should count towards his production. I agree that it does. But that also means that he was effectively taken out of a game by the opposing team.

If he's such a remarkable talent, his production shouldn't suffer because of double teams.

you missed his point, his point was that due to Ginn being contained, it took resources away from stopping Gonzalez and the running game, which is what happens when you try to take away the deep passing game, you leave alot of stuff open underneath

 

[theogt]

Thank you. Goes to show what little stats really mean, especially college stats. Watch the players play the game, please.

I love this kind of response. If you talk about measurables, people will say, "Just look at their college production. What matters is what they put up on the field." Then when you look at college production, people will say, "Stats are meaningless. Just watch the games."

In the end, both are simply mindless responses to substantive criticism.

 

[theogt]

you missed his point, his point was that due to Ginn being contained, it took resources away from stopping Gonzalez and the running game

I think misread my post.

 

[theogt]

The most damning statistic of all:

Out of 37 games and 210 passes directed his way, only 6 (not a typo, that is the number six) passes to Ginn were inside the red zone.

 

[gimmesix]

I love this kind of response. If you talk about measurables, people will say, "Just look at their college production. What matters is what they put up on the field." Then when you look at college production, people will say, "Stats are meaningless. Just watch the games."

In the end, both are simply mindless responses to substantive criticism.

Actually, I think both arguments prove why drafting is still a crapshoot.

You can look at the stats to support taking a player, but then you miss out on the other circumstances of his success.

You can watch the games and believe a player should be taken or look at his measurables, but where's the production to back it up.

I take production as the greater indicator, and would lean toward it when picking a player, but won't rule out a player simply because of lesser production.

In the end, I just hope that whatever Dallas decides to do will be the best choice. I have players I am wary about for various reasons (including Ginn), but I can't say they won't turn out to be better than I expect.

 

[theogt]

Actually, I think both arguments prove why drafting is still a crapshoot.

You can look at the stats to support taking a player, but then you miss out on the other circumstances of his success.

You can watch the games and believe a player should be taken or look at his measurables, but where's the production to back it up.

I take production as the greater indicator, and would lean toward it when picking a player, but won't rule out a player simply because of lesser production.

In the end, I just hope that whatever Dallas decides to do will be the best choice. I have players I am wary about for various reasons (including Ginn), but I can't say they won't turn out to be better than I expect.

Oh, I agree. I think you have to look at both production and physical measurables. Some weigh one more than another, but I think they're about equal. Generally speaking, the two correlate pretty well, actually.

But I think when you have a player that is missing one side of that equation, you have to rank him accordingly. Up until I really began digging into Ginn, I simply assumed he was a productive player. He was certainly hyped up enough. I watched him in games and thought he produced fine just from a casual view.

But a few months ago, a poster criticized Ginn for having speed as his only asset. I asked him to flesh out his argument, but he couldn't (or wouldn't). So I wanted to look past the hype and dig into his games and his stats to see if Ginn's speed really was his only asset. When I looked deeper at his production, it simply wasn't there. And when I looked at his return stats they just weren't that impressive either. Over his final 25 games ('05 and '06) he had 2 TDs returning kicks and 2 TDs returning punts. One of each occurred in each season. So his return averages weren't great, and he didn't have an inordinate amount of returned TDs in '05 and '06 (though he had 4 total in '04).

In the end, I just don't get it. What's all the hype about?

 

[Spectre]

Nice analysis. Based on these numbers, we should just wait and sign him as an undrafted FA.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

In the end, I just don't get it. What's all the hype about?

he's fast that's basically it really, his speed projects well in the pros

 

[theogt]

he's fast that's basically it really, his speed projects well in the pros

That's really it? He's just fast? So we should find every guy that runs 4.2s and draft him in the 1st?

 

[Vegas_Cowboy]

Nice analysis. Based on these numbers, we should just wait and sign him as an undrafted FA.

Based on these numbers, we should look at some of the other undrafted free agents first.

 

[Jake0]

There's a reason Ginn is projected to be a first rounder and Yamon Figurs (4.30 40) isn't even projected in the first day. It ain't speed.

 

[ENGCowboy]

Ginn screams
BUST
from the bottom of his scrawny little body. Hes a hyped up speedster who obviously has some skills but as theo has pointed out he hasnt got that much production. To produce in the NFL you have to beat a double team quite often, and yes you dont do it on your own but you had better be making your cuts in the right place to get yourself open. Dunno but that seems to be his main fault. Im still not sold on him but I can see the advantages of drafting him to learn from our WR for a year. Id rather see us take Bowe, Meachem or Jarrett as a back up for T.O. cos you never know when he could blow up where as Terry Glenn has been a solid team player since joining the Cowboys.

 

[Rack]

Actually, you made the claim that he was a Top 10-15 pick first.

I sure hope so. That prevents us from drafting him (unless JJ returns to his moronic ways and trades UP for that POS).


This is one of the rare instances where theogt and I agree about a player. Ginn is extremely overrated and, IMO, he'll be an average pro... at best.

 

[burmafrd]

Ginn is all about POTENTIAL as a WR. First you have to be convinced that the
kid will put in the work and effort to learn. IF so, then its good. A LOT of what buzz there is about Ginn is his return ability. That would have to be looked at very carefully- only if he could be as good- or close to- Hester should he be a first rd pick.

 

[LD Fan]

There's a reason Ginn is projected to be a first rounder and Yamon Figurs (4.30 40) isn't even projected in the first day. It ain't speed.

He went to a premier college program that was in the national championship game and has had the hype machine going for 2 years. I really have no idea whether he'll be a good pro but I am pretty sure his pedigree has him overrated.

 

[Dayton Cowboy]

I like Ginn's potential, but its a gamble with anyone you pick at 22. I do believe he has improved from his first season to his last at OSU. Will he continue the maturation process as a WR? That is the question. I also wouldn't mind a trade down to the late first or early second for Gonzo. But I'm sure I'm in the minority on that view.

 

[adamknite]

I like Ginn's potential, but its a gamble with anyone you pick at 22. I do believe he has improved from his first season to his last at OSU. Will he continue the maturation process as a WR? That is the question. I also wouldn't mind a trade down to the late first or early second for Gonzo. But I'm sure I'm in the minority on that view.

Well I agree with you if that helps. Gonzalez is one of my favorite recievers in this draft. I think 22 is too high for him but our pick in the second round is too low to land him.