Dayton Cowboy
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I haven't quite figured out where I'd say is the exact spot for him. But I have seen him projected the end of round one with the Colts. Which, I'd hate!!
A Look At Ted Ginn Jr.
- Thread starter theogt
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Doomsday101
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I would not move up to get Ginn but at 22 I would have no issue with drafting him.
dboyz
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I think Ginn could have as big of an immediate impact on our team as anyone we draft. He would immediately be a special teams player and we could incorporate some special packages for him to use his speed. However, I have questions about whether he'll ever be an elite receiver.
Ginn would probably have more immediate impact than say... Jarrett. However, I would rather have Jarrett over the next ten years. I think he'll be an elite receiver.
Ginn would probably have more immediate impact than say... Jarrett. However, I would rather have Jarrett over the next ten years. I think he'll be an elite receiver.
Doomsday101
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dboyz;1467974 said:
I think Ginn will be a guy who will force defense to double up on him. In one on one situation Ginn is too fast and athletic. I think Ginn is a big reason Gonzales is being looked at as a 2nd rd pick as teams focused on the threat of Ginn. As for Jarrett I like him and think he has a chance to be a very good WR in his own right.
Charles
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Great post. This post is stat buster. Stats rarely ever tell the whole story. Ted Ginn Jr is an explosive player. A game changer. It was very evident that the OSU offense went in a tank after he was sidelined. Ginn's threat opene dup the entire offense for OSUJake0;1467296 said:
theogt
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Showing he had good games in 2 games per season is a stat buster?Charles;1468071 said:
How can you say "stats rarely ever tell the whole story" and then proclaim that the stats from only a couple games tell a better story than stats from an entire season?
Some people should think before posting.
GimmeTheBall!
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LD Fan;1467264 said:
:laugh2:
No worries for the naysayers.
Ginn will be long gone by the 12th pick (no matter what his stats tell us.) He's moot for us.
The scouts see someone who can develop into a bona-fide superstar in the NFL, stats notwithstanding.
DTK
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As a fan of THE OSU, I think some of you are forgetting one big factor in Ginn's stats: JIM TRESSELL!!! The guy is a ball control freak. He very rarely looks to go deep and would often use Ginn on WR screens and that's about it. Now, I will admit that his route running needs some serious work, but from all accounts about the kid, he's a hardworker who will put the time in to get better.
Also, Tressell is known for saving his "best" plays for the big games, i.e. Michigan, bowl games. He also plays close to the vest and is very leary of showing too much on game tapes. I really believe that had an effect on Ginn's stats.
You can't coach speed and Ginn has plenty to spare. It's not like he's the second coming of Alexander Wright. Ginn is a football player. At 22, I would have no problem with this selection. Don't know that I would trade up, but... I understand the concerns based on previous 1st Round busts, like Troy Williamson.
Also, Tressell is known for saving his "best" plays for the big games, i.e. Michigan, bowl games. He also plays close to the vest and is very leary of showing too much on game tapes. I really believe that had an effect on Ginn's stats.
You can't coach speed and Ginn has plenty to spare. It's not like he's the second coming of Alexander Wright. Ginn is a football player. At 22, I would have no problem with this selection. Don't know that I would trade up, but... I understand the concerns based on previous 1st Round busts, like Troy Williamson.
Tristan
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theogt,
My point was not what you said it is, I was simply saying that there are different ways a player can be productive, stats are one of them. Terrell owens can be taken out of a game if a defense decides to use all it's recources to do so.
It's obvious to me that he provides a double edged sword to defenses, if they leave him single covered he will tear them up, if they decide to commit extra defenders to contain him then his personal stats will suffer naturally, but this is a very valuable form of production IMO.
It's no secret we disagree on this player, and thats fine, I have no interest in making you change your mind.
I think my point about Newman was quite valid, I guess you just see it differently, fine.
Another example is a guy like Barry Bonds, he's so dangerous they don't pitch to him, naturally his stats suffer fron this, but it can help the team. A nose tackle will sacrifice himself to free up other defenders, this is considered a good thing.
If Ginns talents cause defenses
to have to commit extra resources to stop him, then Ginn is essentially sacrificing himself to free up others.
To me it's clear his overall impact is huge, obviously you can look into specific technical differences in my analogies to state that I'm wrong, but I'm just trying to make basic point on looking at the whole picture, if you don't see it my way, thats fine, I won't go around trying to say your wrong though, you just have a different opinion on the players productiveness and value than I do.
I think considering that the majority of the time he was playing against defenses specifically schemed to contain him, that his stats are very impressive. It's not just speed, it's what you do with that speed. I can't think of any play more exciting than the deep fly pattern TD, and Ginn is one of the best I've ever seen at this.
My point was not what you said it is, I was simply saying that there are different ways a player can be productive, stats are one of them. Terrell owens can be taken out of a game if a defense decides to use all it's recources to do so.
It's obvious to me that he provides a double edged sword to defenses, if they leave him single covered he will tear them up, if they decide to commit extra defenders to contain him then his personal stats will suffer naturally, but this is a very valuable form of production IMO.
It's no secret we disagree on this player, and thats fine, I have no interest in making you change your mind.
I think my point about Newman was quite valid, I guess you just see it differently, fine.
Another example is a guy like Barry Bonds, he's so dangerous they don't pitch to him, naturally his stats suffer fron this, but it can help the team. A nose tackle will sacrifice himself to free up other defenders, this is considered a good thing.
If Ginns talents cause defenses
to have to commit extra resources to stop him, then Ginn is essentially sacrificing himself to free up others.
To me it's clear his overall impact is huge, obviously you can look into specific technical differences in my analogies to state that I'm wrong, but I'm just trying to make basic point on looking at the whole picture, if you don't see it my way, thats fine, I won't go around trying to say your wrong though, you just have a different opinion on the players productiveness and value than I do.
I think considering that the majority of the time he was playing against defenses specifically schemed to contain him, that his stats are very impressive. It's not just speed, it's what you do with that speed. I can't think of any play more exciting than the deep fly pattern TD, and Ginn is one of the best I've ever seen at this.
DTK
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True, but when you're picking in the 20's there aren't any players that don't have question marks. You can make the same case about every other player in the draft at that point. Heck, outside of Calvin Johnson, there really isn't another guy that most will agree on being a bona fide star.Gaede;1468217 said:
DTK
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But to say Ginn didn't produce in college is a farce. His stats are what they are. But he played in a VERY conservative offense that made the kicker look like a star. Ginn produced. If he didn't, he wouldn't be considered a 1st round pick.theogt;1468234 said:
InmanRoshi
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Now throw in his return yards and you'll get the total story. I don't know why anyone would think return stats are insignificant. As far as I know, kick returns TD's count the same amount of points in the NFL as reception TD's. And a guy who can do both punt and kick returns will touch the ball around 4-5 times a game just in returns. Even All Pro WR's only touch the ball around 6 times a game (Torry Holt only averaged 5.8 receptions per game in 2006). Also throw in the number of times opposing teams kick the ball short and out of bounds to avoid returns, and you're racking up hidden yardage. Also, Ginn also rushed for 200 yards in reverses. So, when discussing Ginn, I think its only fair to include all the ways he can give your team yards and points. Even if Ginn only provides half the WR production that Meachem or Bowe does next year, there is still a pretty good chance that he will have more of an impact for his team once you account for receptions, punt returns, kick off returns, reverses and option passes.
Also, just having that kind of a speed threat on the field benefits the entire offense. Reggie Bush may not have been a statistical wonder for New Orleans last year, but teams had to account for him everytime he was on the field. Defenses had to allocate extra resources to account for him, because he was on the field because he was a threat to go the distance every time he touched the ball, which acted as a catalyst and opened things up for other players. So instead of a linebacker typically covering the RB out of the backfield, defenses had to use a free safety on Bush which made their secondary vulnerable for New Orleans WR's.
Also, just having that kind of a speed threat on the field benefits the entire offense. Reggie Bush may not have been a statistical wonder for New Orleans last year, but teams had to account for him everytime he was on the field. Defenses had to allocate extra resources to account for him, because he was on the field because he was a threat to go the distance every time he touched the ball, which acted as a catalyst and opened things up for other players. So instead of a linebacker typically covering the RB out of the backfield, defenses had to use a free safety on Bush which made their secondary vulnerable for New Orleans WR's.
DTK
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He got less than 2 yards per completion when compared to Bowe. LESS THAN 2 YARDS.
So by that standard, Eddie Kennison is a better receiver than Torry Holt because he averaged 16 yards per catch compared to Holt's 12????? You can have Kennison, I'll take Holt.
So by that standard, Eddie Kennison is a better receiver than Torry Holt because he averaged 16 yards per catch compared to Holt's 12????? You can have Kennison, I'll take Holt.