BrassCowboy
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masomenos85;3305737 said:
to quote that guy from Rocky - "what're we waitin for..."
A Realistic Discussion of Acquiring Oshiomogho Atogwe
- Thread starter FuzzyLumpkins
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to quote that guy from Rocky - "what're we waitin for..."
Chocolate Lab
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I tend to agree with you. I don't know enough about Atogwe to have a strong opinion on him, but without doing a ton of research on it, it seems to me that the "he has no one around him" argument tends to be way overdone.peplaw06;3305932 said:
I do think that Spagnuolo is a pretty smart defensive coach, so I'd wonder why he'd let this guy get away.
21Savage
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The argument about looking good on a bad team might generally be true to some positions where players can rack up a lot of tackles, like strong safeties, LBs and some linemen spots. Or in the case of yardage for WRs, like some believe RW to have done in Detroit (even though I don't believe this to be the case).
However, when it comes to CBs and FSs, this is most likely not true. Bad teams don't usually get a lot of ints, because pressure is a huge part of that. Also, they don't get a lot of throws (and even more, predictable throwing downs) because teams can run on them all day as they usually have bad run Ds and are usually down by a lot. These teams also tend to overcompensate for the shoddy run D by moving the SS into the box. This puts a lot of pressure on the FS and the CBs.
Having 8 ints in one season on a bad team is nothing to sneeze at. A stat I looked at said is turn over rate was only one short of Ed Reed in his career. That's pretty impressive.
I just went back and watched our 2 games against the Rams in 07 and 08. He had 3 picks against us in those 2 games. In 07, the only play of significance that I saw him in was his int on an underthrown ball by Romo. I also blame the route combo partly for this because we had 2 WRs (Crayton and Owens) running 9 routes on the same side of the field, so it was easier for Atogwe to track the underthrown ball down.
In 08, his game added to my point about playing on bad teams. We had to throw the ball a lot in that game, due to being down big, and they got a lot of pressure on us. He had a near pick early in that game. He had another pick of number 50, defending Jason Witten on another poorly thrown ball that he tracked well. Then he had a GREAT pick defending Terrell Owens on a deep route on another poorly thrown ball. There were also a couple of occasions that I saw him with good coverage on Witten; one of them was on a dig and deep route by Witten in which Brad threw the ball to Owens instead.
Bottom line, with our pass rush, I don't see an 8 pick season being out of the question and a couple more turnovers. The downside I saw to his game though is that he's a poor tackler. He was even shaken out of his cleats by Barber. He bounces off tacklers too often and is not physical. There were a couple of plays where he blitzed and just tried to avoid the blocker with a shimmer move.
However, when it comes to CBs and FSs, this is most likely not true. Bad teams don't usually get a lot of ints, because pressure is a huge part of that. Also, they don't get a lot of throws (and even more, predictable throwing downs) because teams can run on them all day as they usually have bad run Ds and are usually down by a lot. These teams also tend to overcompensate for the shoddy run D by moving the SS into the box. This puts a lot of pressure on the FS and the CBs.
Having 8 ints in one season on a bad team is nothing to sneeze at. A stat I looked at said is turn over rate was only one short of Ed Reed in his career. That's pretty impressive.
I just went back and watched our 2 games against the Rams in 07 and 08. He had 3 picks against us in those 2 games. In 07, the only play of significance that I saw him in was his int on an underthrown ball by Romo. I also blame the route combo partly for this because we had 2 WRs (Crayton and Owens) running 9 routes on the same side of the field, so it was easier for Atogwe to track the underthrown ball down.
In 08, his game added to my point about playing on bad teams. We had to throw the ball a lot in that game, due to being down big, and they got a lot of pressure on us. He had a near pick early in that game. He had another pick of number 50, defending Jason Witten on another poorly thrown ball that he tracked well. Then he had a GREAT pick defending Terrell Owens on a deep route on another poorly thrown ball. There were also a couple of occasions that I saw him with good coverage on Witten; one of them was on a dig and deep route by Witten in which Brad threw the ball to Owens instead.
Bottom line, with our pass rush, I don't see an 8 pick season being out of the question and a couple more turnovers. The downside I saw to his game though is that he's a poor tackler. He was even shaken out of his cleats by Barber. He bounces off tacklers too often and is not physical. There were a couple of plays where he blitzed and just tried to avoid the blocker with a shimmer move.
JohnnyHopkins
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Maybe we can just convince the Rams to trade him for Hamin and throw in a free one year subscription to the Zone.
Gaede
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I loved Atogwe coming out of the draft, still do. He's a playmaker--and has always been known to force fumbles--even in college...That being said, I don't think acquiring him is going to be the move that puts us over the top. Nor am I gonna be upset if we don't end up getting him. He is getting up there in age and injuries are piling up, so there's plenty reason not get all excited, even though i really like the player
Yeagermeister
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Joe Rod;3305989 said:
A one year? Reality might go 3 or 6 months but not a year. :laugh2:
Doomsday
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I am a bit concearned about his injury status and the fact that he was by far the best defensive player on the Rams 2 years ago, why would they not give him at least a 3 round tender? Kept help but wonder if they know something the rest of the league doesnt.
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Doomsday;3306039 said:
I believe I read something where a reporter was asking why they did not tender him higher and the coach basically said that the guy can not even pass a physical right now. Which leads me to believe they did not want to get saddled with a high priced contract for a player that might not even be cleared to play.
So in this instance it seems to be more of a injury issue and not a performance or other issues.
Which makes it even scarier for a team to trade for him unless they are assured by a medical staff that he will indeed be ok.
FuzzyLumpkins
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BrAinPaiNt;3306066 said:
There is that but the main reason is because they franchised him last season. By doing that they can either tender to the ROFR or for $7mil. Wither way its not something team doctors couldn't look into. Wed probably have to wait til June anyway.
theogt
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Dude, I couldn't care one lick about who is playing free safety. I care about production -- that's it. If one guy produces better than another and we can get him, then I'm all for it. In this case, Atogwe appears to be better statistically. There are few, in my opinion, that have performed better statistically over the past several years than Hamlin, but he is one of them. If the scouts think that was evident from the film as well, then I'd be for it (assuming cost, integration, etc. isn't a problem).Rampage;3305921 said:whoa! If that just happened I gotta play the lotto today
I am not stuck on any names and have no agendas. However, if I form an opinion, I'll defend it until I see reason to change.
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theogt;3306232 said:
Yes, he makes more plays on the ball.
LeonDixson
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CATCH17;3305801 said:
I'm not sure that's even a word, but still....
unionjack8
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theogt;3306308 said:
plays on the ball? Nice made up stat to try and prove your point.
All i know is that Atogwe has made 33 turnovers in 5 years since he came into the league.(19 ints, 14 FF).
In comparison Ed Reed, maybe the best FS in the game has accounted for 30 turnovers(25 INTS and 5 FF).
Hamlin has been in on 11 turnovers(9 INTS and 2 FF).
Now i would much rather have a guy who has a nose for the ball and has proven he can make "plays on the ball".
FuzzyLumpkins
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theogt;3306308 said:
One day you will realize your take on times targeted is wrong. Especially for a guy playing zone all the time even if it is man under. Especially from a site whose stats consistently deviate from STATS LLC by more than 30%.
FuzzyLumpkins
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theogt;3306544 said:
Whos aid it made any difference according to position? I can think of 80 billion ways that a guy playing zone coverage regardless of position could make a mistake, physically be unable to get in position or whatever but some guy who can't even see the backend of the seondary on a network broadcast would place the blame elsewhere.
We played a ton of man under with Hamlin playing deep help over the top. I can see in any instance regardless if Hamlin bent the pooch over and plowed in he would not be assigned a target.
Then there is the whole deviation form STATS issue. In short do us all a favor and quit citing pff as if it means anything whatsoever.