About that bastidge Jerry hiring an OC...

[Next_years_Champs]

Yeah, the head coaches he picked didn't have ANYTHING to do with those results...

If only Chan Gailey or Dave Campo had been able to pick their own coordinators, NOTHING could have stopped us from running off a string of Super Bowl wins...

Perhaps the quality of the HC candidates is directly tied to very good coaches refusal to accept those conditions. Gee I wonder if that could be possible?

 

[silverbear]

Perhaps the quality of the HC candidates is directly tied to very good coaches refusal to accept those conditions. Gee I wonder if that could be possible?

Hmmm, exactly which good coaches have turned down Jerry??

 

[WV Cowboy]

Please, everybody read -

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news.cfm?editorialAuthor=1&id=5C0EC327-EB5B-2644-9870BB217CF0D9A0

 

[Next_years_Champs]

Hmmm, exactly which good coaches have turned down Jerry??

Now how would I know that I'm no insider, perhaps you can supply a list of successful coaches which have accepted the conditions which you say are so common.

By the way I'm not against the hire of Jason Garrett, I like him and think he will be a very good coach. Do you think Jones hiring of a offensive coordinator before even interviewing a HC doesn't smack of his past?

What I hope is that Garrett is going to be hired as head coach and allowed to pick his staff and have a large voice in the player selection, I hope he will then be given the time and latitude it takes to become a quality HC. Which I believe he will become.

Then I'll be convinced that Jerry Jones has learned the lessons of the past mistakes. Something everyone on this board seems to consider very critical when it comes to coaches and players, In my mind its even more critical for the General Manager.

 

[rangers71]

Before hiring a head coach... some of you have your panties ALL in a wad over that... well, I'm here to tell you that your position is asnine...

You see, there are two frontrunners for the head coach job right now, and both of them seem to be completely on board with having Jason in place...


The two " frontrunners" are both 2 time losers who arent being interviewed for any other head coach jobs, so YOUR point is...pointless.

What happened to us being the Dallas Cowboys and hiring the BEST possible candidate ,not desperate guys willing to kowtow to Jerrys stupid demands.

So because they were a head coach before and they failed then they will always be losers huh? Boy it sure is a good thing that the patriots didn't think that way with Bill Belichick or USC didn't think that way about Pete Carroll.

 

[Angus]

I don't mind Garrett as an OC but I don't like the idea of him being thrust into the role of HC with no prior experience. Being the HC of an NFL football team is an extremely demanding and exhausting job, let alone being the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. All eyes are always on you.

I think this team right now needs a seasoned NFL veteran coach that knows the ropes and won't be prone to shell-shock like I think Jason might be.

I'm not arguing with you, but I'd like to know what qualities Reid had to become the very good Eagles coach without prior HC or OC experience that Garrett doesn't have. Are there any? All eyes have been on the Eagles, too, and were from the start.

 

[hank2k]

So because they were a head coach before and they failed then they will always be losers huh? Boy it sure is a good thing that the patriots didn't think that way with Bill Belichick or USC didn't think that way about Pete Carroll.

Belichek was a one time loser, unlike Norv and Phillips. Carroll is coaching in college football where its basically all about recruiting and a players coach has a better chance. No way would I want him in the pros unless it was for the Eagles, Skins or Giants.

 

[rangers71]

Belichek was a one time loser, unlike Norv and Phillips. Carroll is coaching in college football where its basically all about recruiting and a players coach has a better chance. No way would I want him in the pros unless it was for the Eagles, Skins or Giants.

So it's ok to lose 1 time but not twice? That's the magic number huh. Ok as long as we got that straight. Makes perfect sense to me. So is a bad head coach in the NFl better than a good college coach? I guess in your eyes it is. I mean after all it's only about recruiting. If that's the case was Urban Meyer a good coach at Utah or just at Florida? I mean he was able to recruit about better players at Florida.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Hmmm, exactly which good coaches have turned down Jerry??

That's just it. How many good quality HC's did Jerry actually go after in the 90's? After Jimmy left he had his buddy Barry hired the next day.
Terry Donahue was rumored after that, but he ended up going with Chan Gailey who was basically brought in to be a glorified OC. Then we just stayed in house with Campo.

After that was an abject failure he finally swallowed some pride and went with Parcells.

That span following Johnson and prior to BP, Jerry never attempted to hire a good quality NFL coach, which was just the way he wanted it.

 

[VA Cowboy]

So it's ok to lose 1 time but not twice? That's the magic number huh. Ok as long as we got that straight. Makes perfect sense to me.

How many chances do you think guys should get?

Sometimes it's not okay once. Some guys never get another chance. If someone gets a second chance then they should consider themselves lucky.

After you've failed twice as a HC, how many more times should you get? Odds are, they just aren't good HC's.

How many guys out their failed twice and got a third chance? And how many that got a third chance actually had success?

 

[hank2k]

So it's ok to lose 1 time but not twice? That's the magic number huh. Ok as long as we got that straight. Makes perfect sense to me. So is a bad head coach in the NFl better than a good college coach? I guess in your eyes it is. I mean after all it's only about recruiting. If that's the case was Urban Meyer a good coach at Utah or just at Florida? I mean he was able to recruit about better players at Florida.

Meyer was able to recruit good players at both. (Hint most of the good ones at Utah werent from Utah) He is a very good college coach. I dont know how he would be in the pros but i do know Pete Carroll wasnt very good at it either time. And yes , 2 times a failure and Im all for trying someone else. Doesnt guarantee a guy cant succeed again, but how many chances do you give a guy before YOU want someone else 5, 10 ??

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Now how would I know that I'm no insider, perhaps you can supply a list of successful coaches which have accepted the conditions which you say are so common.

By the way I'm not against the hire of Jason Garrett, I like him and think he will be a very good coach. Do you think Jones hiring of a offensive coordinator before even interviewing a HC doesn't smack of his past?

What I hope is that Garrett is going to be hired as head coach and allowed to pick his staff and have a large voice in the player selection, I hope he will then be given the time and latitude it takes to become a quality HC. Which I believe he will become.

Then I'll be convinced that Jerry Jones has learned the lessons of the past mistakes. Something everyone on this board seems to consider very critical when it comes to coaches and players, In my mind its even more critical for the General Manager.

It's stuff like this that is wrong with this board. If you want to form an opinion without any facts backing you up fine, but you can't hide your opinion's lack of basis by claiming ignorance and then asking others to look things up for you.

The idea is to first learn, second form an opinion then thirdly, voice that opinion.

If you're really that interested about a successful coach who had an OC foisted upon them, look no further than the Super Bowl. Irsay told all candidates in no uncertain terms that Tom Moore was staying when they interviewed potential Head Coaches when Dungy was hired.

I wonder how that worked out.

 

[hank2k]

It's stuff like this that is wrong with this board. If you want to form an opinion without any facts backing you up fine, but you can't hide your opinion's lack of basis by claiming ignorance and then asking others to look things up for you.

The idea is to first learn, second form an opinion then thirdly, voice that opinion.

If you're really that interested about a successful coach who had an OC foisted upon them, look no further than the Super Bowl. Irsay told all candidates in no uncertain terms that Tom Moore was staying when they interviewed potential Head Coaches when Dungy was hired.

I wonder how that worked out.

Moore was already the OC in Indy. Our OC was Sparano last year. If Jerry was saying keep Sparano or dont bother with the job it would be a similar situation. Bringing in a new guy to foist upon the next coach limits the candidates to only the desperate.

 

[rangers71]

How many chances do you think guys should get?

Sometimes it's not okay once. Some guys never get another chance. If someone gets a second chance then they should consider themselves lucky.

After you've failed twice as a HC, how many more times should you get? Odds are, they just aren't good HC's.

How many guys out their failed twice and got a third chance? And how many that got a third chance actually had success?

I am not saying either one of them deserve another chance. Personally I hope they hire Jason as the HC. I don't really want either one of those retreads. But most people on here don't want Jason as the HC so that leaves the retreads as the frontrunner. I would love to see Riveria or Ryan interviewed but since that isn't going to happen I want Jason.

 

[Next_years_Champs]

It's stuff like this that is wrong with this board. If you want to form an opinion without any facts backing you up fine, but you can't hide your opinion's lack of basis by claiming ignorance and then asking others to look things up for you.

The idea is to first learn, second form an opinion then thirdly, voice that opinion.

If you're really that interested about a successful coach who had an OC foisted upon them, look no further than the Super Bowl. Irsay told all candidates in no uncertain terms that Tom Moore was staying when they interviewed potential Head Coaches when Dungy was hired.

I wonder how that worked out.

Hey Ernie Zampese was "forced" on Barry Switzer and they won a Super Bowl, of course both were already under contract before the head job became available which is the distinction I have made and I will continue to make.

Which still leaves no successful head coach on the list of head coaches which were hired immediately after the hiring of a offensive coordinator, That's a fact for you.

As far as my opinion about why coaches wouldn't even interview, how exactly do you go about coming up with that information? I don't think coaches would say that even if it were true, I do know that there wasn't a list of good successful HC's lining up for interviews. Coaches not interested in coaching on of the highest profile franchises in the NFL makes sense to you does it?

I also know that one good successful coach walked away from the job because of a personal conflict with Jerry Jones. Jimmy Johnson, that's another fact for you.

As far as me being what is wrong with this board well we just see things differently, What bugs me most about this board is self rightous posters who assume they are the only ones who observe and form opinions, And posters who call others out without any idea if they are serious and informed.

You don't know me from beans and it's not likely we will ever know one another. But I will tell you one thing I do know, the lack of high quality successful head coaches interested in coaching the Cowboys should concern ever fan.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Hey Ernie Zampese was "forced" on Barry Switzer and they won a Super Bowl, of course both were already under contract before the head job became available which is the distinction I have made and I will continue to make.

Which still leaves no successful head coach on the list of head coaches which were hired immediately after the hiring of a offensive coordinator, That's a fact for you.

As far as my opinion about why coaches wouldn't even interview, how exactly do you go about coming up with that information? I don't think coaches would say that even if it were true, I do know that there wasn't a list of good successful HC's lining up for interviews. Coaches not interested in coaching on of the highest profile franchises in the NFL makes sense to you does it?

I also know that one good successful coach walked away from the job because of a personal conflict with Jerry Jones. Jimmy Johnson, that's another fact for you.

As far as me being what is wrong with this board well we just see things differently, What bugs me most about this board is self rightous posters who assume they are the only ones who observe and form opinions, And posters who call others out without any idea if they are serious and informed.

You don't know me from beans and it's not likely we will ever know one another. But I will tell you one thing I do know, the lack of high quality successful head coaches interested in coaching the Cowboys should concern ever fan.

So why don't you inform the ignorant masses what "high quality" coaching prospect has or is going to turn down an offer to interview?

Dallas added someone generally regarded as one of the bright young offensive minds around in Garrett and that's turned them off.

Of the three hottest DCs in the game right now, Phillips is interviewing, Rivera came on Dallas radio and basically begged for an interview despite his team preparing for the Super Bowl and there's been talk of Rex Ryan. Who the heck is left on the defensive side of the ball that's worthy of an interview?

Heck the Bears are digging through the couch cushions to pay their head coach so he doesn't bolt with a year left on his deal.


So c'mon big guy name one "high qualtiy successful head coach" or even a coaching prospect that's available that isn't interested in coaching in Dallas.

 

[Next_years_Champs]

So why don't you inform the ignorant masses what "high quality" coaching prospect has or is going to turn down an offer to interview?

Dallas added someone generally regarded as one of the bright young offensive minds around in Garrett and that's turned them off.

I've written my opinion about Jason Garrett on other threads I don't plan on repeating it here.

Of the three hottest DCs in the game right now, Phillips is interviewing, Rivera came on Dallas radio and basically begged for an interview despite his team preparing for the Super Bowl and there's been talk of Rex Ryan. Who the heck is left on the defensive side of the ball that's worthy of an interview?

Heck the Bears are digging through the couch cushions to pay their head coach so he doesn't bolt with a year left on his deal.


So c'mon big guy name one "high qualtiy successful head coach" or even a coaching prospect that's available that isn't interested in coaching in Dallas.

The original discussion which I was involved with was in regards to the period preceding Bill Parcells, most specifically the days before the compensation for head coaches was established. During those days the only head coach I can think of who was contacted about the job was Terry Donahue and he quickly declined the offer. Nothing in those days kept coaches from voicing interest in the job, However; none did.

As far as now goes I'm not surprised there is interest in the job because of the young core of talent on this roster. However; my definition of a quality "head" coach doesn't include ex head coaches who will accept any circumstances just to get considered for the job. For instance (just a hypothetical) do you think if Bill Belichek were available he would for even one second allow the hiring of a offensive coordinator before he was hired. A head coach who has the skins hanging on the wall wouldn't put up with it for even a second.

I'm not suprised that assist coaches are interested and that wasn't ever any part of my initial discussion on this thread, its just a strawman argument from you.

So anyway I'm through with this little pissing match with you, I have no intention of trading personal insults. See Ya!

 

[StanleySpadowski]

I've written my opinion about Jason Garrett on other threads I don't plan on repeating it here.





The original discussion which I was involved with was in regards to the period preceding Bill Parcells, most specifically the days before the compensation for head coaches was established. During those days the only head coach I can think of who was contacted about the job was Terry Donahue and he quickly declined the offer. Nothing in those days kept coaches from voicing interest in the job, However; none did.

As far as now goes I'm not surprised there is interest in the job because of the young core of talent on this roster. However; my definition of a quality "head" coach doesn't include ex head coaches who will accept any circumstances just to get considered for the job. For instance (just a hypothetical) do you think if Bill Belichek were available he would for even one second allow the hiring of a offensive coordinator before he was hired. A head coach who has the skins hanging on the wall wouldn't put up with it for even a second.

I'm not suprised that assist coaches are interested and that wasn't ever any part of my initial discussion on this thread, its just a strawman argument from you.

So anyway I'm through with this little pissing match with you, I have no intention of trading personal insults. See Ya!

Nice punt.

Name one head coach out there with skins on the wall that is available.

Excluding ones that are currently under contract with someone that leaves who that's interested in coaching?

Your argument might have merit if you could point to someone like Cowher and say - See, if Garrett wasn't hired we might have had him. You can't so you'll slink away.

 

[VA Cowboy]

I am not saying either one of them deserve another chance. Personally I hope they hire Jason as the HC. I don't really want either one of those retreads. But most people on here don't want Jason as the HC so that leaves the retreads as the frontrunner. I would love to see Riveria or Ryan interviewed but since that isn't going to happen I want Jason.

There's no way Jason is ready now. I don't want a retread either, but I'd take one of them for a year or two over Garrett right now.

It's just ridiculous if it comes down to either of those options.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Some of you are clueless. You don't have to use football, use your own experiences in positions of authority -- or just human nature -- to ask yourself if the new head coach will have the same respect from players with them knowing a young assistant coach is the real man the owner plans on promoting. Sure.... there are a lot of good character guys on this team thanks to Bill, and win a few games and they'll listen to Phillps. But start losing, maybe not draft as successfully, add a few bad apples, have the ever-read-to-blow TO on your team... and things could get out of control. Jerry just needs to realize that he's the owner, not the boss, and find a real GM to make these decisions. Stop underminding your coaches Jerry. These same coaching structures landed us into a lot of trouble before Bill took over. I only accept this as an excuse if Bill's retirement took Jerry by surprise and he planned on having the Tuna one more year. Otherwise I look at this as business as usual just like the Switzer/Gailey/Campo years.