ABQ/ABQJr's Easter Mock (or at least started on Easter)

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think that probably makes more sense for a 4-3 team that just added Henry Melton than Tuitt.
If you trade down you want to be targeting a guy like we did with Frederick last year.
Crichton seems a good candidate for such a move.

Having a spot to play a guy and a plan for the guy is big.
Getting him first team reps from basically day 1.

Crichton is a good player but he has very little upside. What you see right now is what you get with him. Tuitt, on the other hand, has not nearly reached his potential. If he can come back down to 295/300 he can be a dominating DE, even in the NFL. If he continues to grow, he's still a force to deal with at DT. Either way, you get a good piece. With Crichton, your limited a bit. I like him but not in the 1st round.

 

[jterrell]

Crichton is a good player but he has very little upside. What you see right now is what you get with him. Tuitt, on the other hand, has not nearly reached his potential. If he can come back down to 295/300 he can be a dominating DE, even in the NFL. If he continues to grow, he's still a force to deal with at DT. Either way, you get a good piece. With Crichton, your limited a bit. I like him but not in the 1st round.

There is probably some merit to that.
At the same time how many guys you know that lost weight after age 21?
Tuitt is generally listed as a DT and in a 4-3 he is probably a 3T unless he gains a lot of weight.
Tuitt is going to carry a high injury risk due to his hernia and just the rate at which guys that big and athletic experience injury.
He has an All Pro ceiling but also carries a lot of risk.

I think Crichton is under-rated. He played inside and out for the Beavers and had 16.5 sacks his final two seasons.
Not sure I'd ever say a guy that is in his early 20's has maxed out but he is limited athletically.
On the plus side he has an NFL caliber work ethic and motor so there is very little risk.
Again, this is rather like Travis Frederick. He reminds me a lot of Greg Ellis who was a really strong piece for this team ... though never Randy Moss.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

There is probably some merit to that.
At the same time how many guys you know that lost weight after age 21?
Tuitt is generally listed as a DT and in a 4-3 he is probably a 3T unless he gains a lot of weight.
Tuitt is going to carry a high injury risk due to his hernia and just the rate at which guys that big and athletic experience injury.
He has an All Pro ceiling but also carries a lot of risk.

I think Crichton is under-rated. He played inside and out for the Beavers and had 16.5 sacks his final two seasons.
Not sure I'd ever say a guy that is in his early 20's has maxed out but he is limited athletically.
On the plus side he has an NFL caliber work ethic and motor so there is very little risk.
Again, this is rather like Travis Frederick. He reminds me a lot of Greg Ellis who was a really strong piece for this team ... though never Randy Moss.

I feel the same way about Crichton. IMO he is exactly the kinda guy that Marinelli wants. Tuitt does have the higher ceiling. It just comes down to how much of a risk are you willing to take with the 1st round pick. Tuitt has some bad tape out there, i'm not sure how much the injuries had to do with that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

There is probably some merit to that.
At the same time how many guys you know that lost weight after age 21?
Tuitt is generally listed as a DT and in a 4-3 he is probably a 3T unless he gains a lot of weight.
Tuitt is going to carry a high injury risk due to his hernia and just the rate at which guys that big and athletic experience injury.
He has an All Pro ceiling but also carries a lot of risk.

I think Crichton is under-rated. He played inside and out for the Beavers and had 16.5 sacks his final two seasons.
Not sure I'd ever say a guy that is in his early 20's has maxed out but he is limited athletically.
On the plus side he has an NFL caliber work ethic and motor so there is very little risk.
Again, this is rather like Travis Frederick. He reminds me a lot of Greg Ellis who was a really strong piece for this team ... though never Randy Moss.

I love Crichton but he has very little pop. I see him as a Strong Side DE in a 43. I don't see him as a Will OLB or DE in a 34, which means that a lot of teams are not even going to consider him and those that do will push him down because he would have to be the Mike Inside Backer or the Sam OLB in a 34. I think he's probably going to be a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

 

[AsthmaField]

I feel the same way about Crichton. IMO he is exactly the kinda guy that Marinelli wants. Tuitt does have the higher ceiling. It just comes down to how much of a risk are you willing to take with the 1st round pick. Tuitt has some bad tape out there, i'm not sure how much the injuries had to do with that.

I'm not so sure that Tuitt has a higher ceiling in a 43 scheme than Crichton does. I mean, maybe so, but I don't see a real good fit for Tuitt in our defense. In a 34 then sure, Crichton doesn't really fit that scheme very well.

Crichton fits very nicely as a strongside end in Marinelli's 43 though, and while he isn't as explosive as you'd want on the weakside, he has plenty of athleticism for the strongside. He actually reminds me a good bit of Michael Strahan.

It is just one guy's opinion, but I like Crichton way more than Tuitt for this defense.

 

[xwalker]

I'm not so sure that Tuitt has a higher ceiling in a 43 scheme than Crichton does. I mean, maybe so, but I don't see a real good fit for Tuitt in our defense. In a 34 then sure, Crichton doesn't really fit that scheme very well.

Crichton fits very nicely as a strongside end in Marinelli's 43 though, and while he isn't as explosive as you'd want on the weakside, he has plenty of athleticism for the strongside. He actually reminds me a good bit of Michael Strahan.

It is just one guy's opinion, but I like Crichton way more than Tuitt for this defense.

Did you review Tuitt in 2012 or just 2013?

 

[AsthmaField]

Did you review Tuitt in 2012 or just 2013?

I've seen him in both.

Do you think Tuitt is a good fit for Marinelli's 43? If so, where would you play him.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

One thing I keep in my mind is that statement from Marinelli where he said he would like to run a scheme similar to what Seattle is doing. I thought that was a very interesting statement.

I know you didn't ask me but I will tell you, I think Tuitt fits our scheme regardless of if he plays at DE or DT. JMO.

 

[xwalker]

I've seen him in both.

Do you think Tuitt is a good fit for Marinelli's 43? If so, where would you play him.

He would only be a DT in this scheme. He is similar to Jason Hatcher if you go by his 2012 game footage. He had surgery prior to the 2013 season and played too heavy. He looked like a different player in 2013 and compared to 2012.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He would only be a DT in this scheme. He is similar to Jason Hatcher if you go by his 2012 game footage. He had surgery prior to the 2013 season and played too heavy. He looked like a different player in 2013 and compared to 2012.

I don't agree with this. I think he could play either a 3 Tech or a Strong Side DE with significant pass rush capabilities. I don't think he is strictly a DT.

 

[xwalker]

I don't agree with this. I think he could play either a 3 Tech or a Strong Side DE with significant pass rush capabilities. I don't think he is strictly a DT.

He weighs 304 pounds. Marinelli prefers to give up size for speed. At 304 he would be the biggest 4-3 DE in the league or 2nd if you consider Red Bryant a true 4-3 DE which he really wasn't (Seattle played more of a 3-4 style when Bryant was in the game). The biggest true 4-3 DE in 2013 was Lamar Houston at 300 pounds.

In order for Tuitt to be a DE here, he would have to be basically the biggest one in the league while playing for a D-Coordinator that is known to have smaller players on the DL than average.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He weighs 304 pounds. Marinelli prefers to give up size for speed. At 304 he would be the biggest 4-3 DE in the league or 2nd if you consider Red Bryant a true 4-3 DE which he really wasn't (Seattle played more of a 3-4 style when Bryant was in the game). The biggest true 4-3 DE in 2013 was Lamar Houston at 300 pounds.

In order for Tuitt to be a DE here, he would have to be basically the biggest one in the league while playing for a D-Coordinator that is known to have smaller players on the DL than average.

Actually, he weighed in at closer to 295 for his pro day. Marinelli specifically said that he would like to develop personnel much like what he sees in Seattle. That, to me, is at least one DE with some size. In the NFL, it's not about same same. Same same gets you beaten. It's about the team that finds what works first before everybody copies it and adjusts. If a guy is 295 and can rush the passer, it makes no sense to say that he can not play DE because he's way to big for it. That's not the way it works.

 

[jterrell]

Actually, he weighed in at closer to 295 for his pro day. Marinelli specifically said that he would like to develop personnel much like what he sees in Seattle. That, to me, is at least one DE with some size. In the NFL, it's not about same same. Same same gets you beaten. It's about the team that finds what works first before everybody copies it and adjusts. If a guy is 295 and can rush the passer, it makes no sense to say that he can not play DE because he's way to big for it. That's not the way it works.

Huh? Tuitt showed up at the Pro Day to interview but not test as he was in a walking boot recovering from surgery. Those boots are like 10 pounds by themself.
Maybe he or his agent claimed he was down to 295 but I haven't seen that actually recorded anywhere.

He is an injury question mark and also a very questionable scheme fit.
It's fine to disagree but there's very little logic on your side of it as is.

Negatives: Hurt now and surgery last two seasons. Soft 2013 due to poor conditioning. 3-4 DE size and skill but questionable in a 4-3.
Positives: Athletic and really big dude.

Marinelli was referencing Seattle coverage schemes not DL play.
Dallas has signed Jermey Mincey at 265 pounds, Terrell McClain at 292 pounds as a NT and Henry Melton at 295 to play 3T.
Those are typical 4-3 sizes and and typical Marinelli DL sizes.
Tuitt would be the biggest DL in Dallas at 6'7" and right there for heaviest guy that could actually make the roster.

He is a very athletic prospect but the risks are through the roof.

Ideally Dallas could steal Crichton at 47 but DL rise like wild fire.
CBS has Crichton at 49 and Tuitt (listed as a DT) at 40. Tuitt also has the injury flag beside his name.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Huh? Tuitt showed up at the Pro Day to interview but not test as he was in a walking boot recovering from surgery. Those boots are like 10 pounds by themself.
Maybe he or his agent claimed he was down to 295 but I haven't seen that actually recorded anywhere.

He is an injury question mark and also a very questionable scheme fit.
It's fine to disagree but there's very little logic on your side of it as is.

Negatives: Hurt now and surgery last two seasons. Soft 2013 due to poor conditioning. 3-4 DE size and skill but questionable in a 4-3.
Positives: Athletic and really big dude.

Marinelli was referencing Seattle coverage schemes not DL play.
Dallas has signed Jermey Mincey at 265 pounds, Terrell McClain at 292 pounds as a NT and Henry Melton at 295 to play 3T.
Those are typical 4-3 sizes and and typical Marinelli DL sizes.
Tuitt would be the biggest DL in Dallas at 6'7" and right there for heaviest guy that could actually make the roster.

He is a very athletic prospect but the risks are through the roof.

Ideally Dallas could steal Crichton at 47 but DL rise like wild fire.
CBS has Crichton at 49 and Tuitt (listed as a DT) at 40. Tuitt also has the injury flag beside his name.

His Pro Day weight was published at 297. What does that have to do with a walking boot? I guess it could mean that he weighed even less once the boot comes off.

 

[jterrell]

His Pro Day weight was published at 297. What does that have to do with a walking boot? I guess it could mean that he weighed even less once the boot comes off.

have a link to that?

--not asking to be a smart arse btw i literally searched and found nothing to show he did anything at pro day other than speak to media.

 

[jterrell]

have a link to that?

--not asking to be a smart arse btw i literally searched and found nothing to show he did anything at pro day other than speak to media.

what i did find was that Tuitt SAID he weighed 299 at the Pro Day.

Tuitt didn't take part because his left foot is in a walking boot after undergoing surgery to repair a break discovered during his physical at the NFL combine. Tuitt said the injury was a surprise.
"I had trained for six weeks before that and I felt as healthy as I could be," he said.

Tuitt was able to work out for scouts in Atlanta before undergoing surgery in February.

"I feel really good about it. It was a good performance," he said.

The 6-6 Tuitt said he weighs 299, his lowest weight in recent memory. That's 13 pounds lighter than he was listed for the Pinstripe Bowl in December. Tuitt said he was able to drop the weight after leaving school.

"I was able to transform my body when I had one-on-one time with professionals," he said.

full AP story: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/nix-tuitt-martin-headline-notre-dames-pro-day

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

have a link to that?

--not asking to be a smart arse btw i literally searched and found nothing to show he did anything at pro day other than speak to media.

This is not the article that I read some time back but it is a more recent article.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-martin-headline-notre-dames-pro-day/6665867/

Here it mentions his weight at 299 as of March 20th, as you mentioned above.

 

[jterrell]

This is not the article that I read some time back but it is a more recent article.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-martin-headline-notre-dames-pro-day/6665867/

Here it mentions his weight at 299 as of March 20th.

That's the same report I cut and pasted. It just says he SAYS he weighs that and not that he ever actually achieved that on a scale in front of anyone.

Not that it matters overly much. Tuitt was given a round 2 grade from the NFL advisory committee at the end of the season. He then declared and showed up to the combine and weighed in at a slimmed down 304 pounds. But he showed a break in the physical and had to have surgery that prevented normal cardio or any running.

He weighed 311 at the end of the Notre Dame season and is unlikely to play NFL football at below 310 pounds IMHO.

Again, you can disagree but there is not a lot of logic to back your take or thought process with him.

If Dallas did want to go big at SDE they'd likely employ Henry Melton there and either draft as 3T or let the 288 pound Crawford play it.

I honestly can not think of any team that ever drafted a guy in round 1 with the intent of that player losing weight and it worked out.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

Bottom line for me is if Tuitt can rush the passer who cares how big he is. If he can be like the 2012 Tuitt and continue to progress like that then I think he will be a solid pick. However, that's a lot of hopes and ifs for us guys who don't really get to see any of the physicals.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

That's the same report I cut and pasted. It just says he SAYS he weighs that and not that he ever actually achieved that on a scale in front of anyone.

Not that it matters overly much. Tuitt was given a round 2 grade from the NFL advisory committee at the end of the season. He then declared and showed up to the combine and weighed in at a slimmed down 304 pounds. But he showed a break in the physical and had to have surgery that prevented normal cardio or any running.

He weighed 311 at the end of the Notre Dame season and is unlikely to play NFL football at below 310 pounds IMHO.

Again, you can disagree but there is not a lot of logic to back your take or thought process with him.

If Dallas did want to go big at SDE they'd likely employ Henry Melton there and either draft as 3T or let the 288 pound Crawford play it.

I honestly can not think of any team that ever drafted a guy in round 1 with the intent of that player losing weight and it worked out.

Wasn't the plan to play Crawford at DE last year before he got hurt?