ABQ/ABQJr's Easter Mock (or at least started on Easter)

[xwalker]

Bottom line for me is if Tuitt can rush the passer who cares how big he is. If he can be like the 2012 Tuitt and continue to progress like that then I think he will be a solid pick. However, that's a lot of hopes and ifs for us guys who don't really get to see any of the physicals.

I think the weight discussion is about DE vs DT.

It seems highly unlikely that he would be a DE in Marinelli's scheme or most other 4-3 schemes.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That's the same report I cut and pasted. It just says he SAYS he weighs that and not that he ever actually achieved that on a scale in front of anyone.

Not that it matters overly much. Tuitt was given a round 2 grade from the NFL advisory committee at the end of the season. He then declared and showed up to the combine and weighed in at a slimmed down 304 pounds. But he showed a break in the physical and had to have surgery that prevented normal cardio or any running.

He weighed 311 at the end of the Notre Dame season and is unlikely to play NFL football at below 310 pounds IMHO.

Again, you can disagree but there is not a lot of logic to back your take or thought process with him.

If Dallas did want to go big at SDE they'd likely employ Henry Melton there and either draft as 3T or let the 288 pound Crawford play it.

I honestly can not think of any team that ever drafted a guy in round 1 with the intent of that player losing weight and it worked out.

I would not say that but obviously, we do not agree. If Dallas wanted to go big at DT, it would not make much sense for them to use Melton as he was tried at DT by Marinelli and did not work at the position, which is why he was eventually moved to DT. However, that clearly shows that Marinelli has had it in his mind, for some time, to go big at DE.

The Cowboys have had Tuitt in so clearly, it's a player they are considering. Tuitt would not be the player I would rather have at 16 but late in round 1, I don't think he's a reach. His injury will not prevent him from being ready to play by the start of Camp.

Romo weighed over 230 lbs at Eastern Illinois. When he came to us, we got him down to a playing weight of 219 lbs. Now, if you want to say that he didn't work out, that's another discussion but there have been many players to come to the NFL who have trimmed down and had good careers.

 

[xwalker]

I would not say that but obviously, we do not agree. If Dallas wanted to go big at DT, it would not make much sense for them to use Melton as he was tried at DT by Marinelli and did not work at the position, which is why he was eventually moved to DT. However, that clearly shows that Marinelli has had it in his mind, for some time, to go big at DE.

The Cowboys have had Tuitt in so clearly, it's a player they are considering. Tuitt would not be the player I would rather have at 16 but late in round 1, I don't think he's a reach. His injury will not prevent him from being ready to play by the start of Camp.

Romo weighed over 230 lbs at Eastern Illinois. When he came to us, we got him down to a playing weight of 219 lbs. Now, if you want to say that he didn't work out, that's another discussion but there have been many players to come to the NFL who have trimmed down and had good careers.

Henry Melton weighed 269 when drafted. They tried him at DE early in his career; therefore, he was probably not close to 295 at that time.

Having Tuitt in for a visit is not an indicator that they want to play him at DE.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Henry Melton weighed 269 when drafted. They tried him at DE early in his career; therefore, he was probably not close to 295 at that time.

Having Tuitt in for a visit is not an indicator that they want to play him at DE.

I never said it was. I said it was an indicator that they liked the player, which it is.

The question of Melton's weight at DE, when Marinelli tried him at DE, is irrelevant. Evidently, he was better suited for DT. However, the given weight of any player has nothing to do with can they play DE. The Cowboys had never had a 6'9" DE before Ed Jones and many said he was too tall but clearly, it worked out. If he can play DE, then he can play DE. Based on 2012, he can play DE in the NFL IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Does this guy look like he's too slow to play DE?

 

[xwalker]

I never said it was. I said it was an indicator that they liked the player, which it is.

The question of Melton's weight at DE, when Marinelli tried him at DE, is irrelevant. Evidently, he was better suited for DT. However, the given weight of any player has nothing to do with can they play DE. The Cowboys had never had a 6'9" DE before Ed Jones and many said he was too tall but clearly, it worked out. If he can play DE, then he can play DE. Based on 2012, he can play DE in the NFL IMO.

However, that clearly shows that Marinelli has had it in his mind, for some time, to go big at DE.

I was referring to this statement when I pointed out that Melton was near 269 when Marinelli tried him at DE.

 

[jterrell]

Wasn't the plan to play Crawford at DE last year before he got hurt?

He was used at both SDE and 3T last off-season. Sounded like his role was back up SDE but we never got far enough to know before he was hurt.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I was referring to this statement when I pointed out that Melton was near 269 when Marinelli tried him at DE.

OK, but what does that point have to do with anything? In an earlier post, JT said that it was more likely that the Cowboys would simply use Melton at DE and draft a DT. I was simply pointing out that Marinelli had already tried Melton at DE and decided he was better suited to DT.

 

[xwalker]

OK, but what does that point have to do with anything? In an earlier post, JT said that it was more likely that the Cowboys would simply use Melton at DE and draft a DT. I was simply pointing out that Marinelli had already tried Melton at DE and decided he was better suited to DT.

I'm just pointing out simple logic.

You said that Marinelli has it in mind to go big at DE.

I pointed out that trying Melton at DE when he was near 269 was not "going big at DE".

 

[jterrell]

Does this guy look like he's too slow to play DE?

He can definitely play DE.
But in a 3-4 like he actually did at ND.

Tuitt projects as a big, big boy. Probably a pure 3-4 DE but usable anywhere inside the tackles.

When Notre Dame went to their 46 sets Tuitt played 3T. He didn't play end.
On Seattle boards they are debating if he is a 3 or a 5. They want him to replace Bryant or McDaniel.

6'5" 304 at the combine. It is what it is. He has tweeted that he runs a 4.8 40 but his fasted timed was 4.92.
His upside is probably that of Michael Brockers.
He has r1 value if the injuries and positional fit don't scare you off, but his advisory grade and 2013 tape was round 2.

He is an intriguing debate with Crichton because they are similar values but in very different bodies.
I don't think Marinelli would side with you on the debate however.
He likes motor guys and has employed smaller bodies.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He was used at both SDE and 3T last off-season. Sounded like his role was back up SDE but we never got far enough to know before he was hurt.

I'm just pointing out simple logic.

You said that Marinelli has it in mind to go big at DE.

I pointed out that trying Melton at DE when he was near 269 was not "going big at DE".

Well, I don't know about the 269 weight. So far as I know, Melton has always been listed at 280 lbs in his rookie season but if you say it was 269, that's fine.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He can definitely play DE.
But in a 3-4 like he actually did at ND.

Tuitt projects as a big, big boy. Probably a pure 3-4 DE but usable anywhere inside the tackles.

When Notre Dame went to their 46 sets Tuitt played 3T. He didn't play end.
On Seattle boards they are debating if he is a 3 or a 5. They want him to replace Bryant or McDaniel.

6'5" 304 at the combine. It is what it is. He has tweeted that he runs a 4.8 40 but his fasted timed was 4.92.
His upside is probably that of Michael Brockers.
He has r1 value if the injuries and positional fit don't scare you off, but his advisory grade and 2013 tape was round 2.

He is an intriguing debate with Crichton because they are similar values but in very different bodies.
I don't think Marinelli would side with you on the debate however.
He likes motor guys and has employed smaller bodies.

Why would he be limited to a DE in just a 34? It's pretty clear to me that he has the speed and agility, when healthy, to play DE in a 43 as well.

 

[jterrell]

OK, but what does that point have to do with anything? In an earlier post, JT said that it was more likely that the Cowboys would simply use Melton at DE and draft a DT. I was simply pointing out that Marinelli had already tried Melton at DE and decided he was better suited to DT.

JT is saying IF Marinelli wanted to go big at DE he'd use Melton who is far less big than Tuitt and has actually played 4-3 DE before. Chicago obviously was not hurting for DEs under Marinelli....

I do not think Marinelli would prefer to do that, though in certain sets we may well see it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He can definitely play DE.
But in a 3-4 like he actually did at ND.

Tuitt projects as a big, big boy. Probably a pure 3-4 DE but usable anywhere inside the tackles.

When Notre Dame went to their 46 sets Tuitt played 3T. He didn't play end.
On Seattle boards they are debating if he is a 3 or a 5. They want him to replace Bryant or McDaniel.

6'5" 304 at the combine. It is what it is. He has tweeted that he runs a 4.8 40 but his fasted timed was 4.92.
His upside is probably that of Michael Brockers.
He has r1 value if the injuries and positional fit don't scare you off, but his advisory grade and 2013 tape was round 2.

He is an intriguing debate with Crichton because they are similar values but in very different bodies.
I don't think Marinelli would side with you on the debate however.
He likes motor guys and has employed smaller bodies.

Actually, he did run a 4.82 official, in his 1st attempt but pulled on his 2nd attempt and recorded a 5.07. That's why his number is 4.92 but he did run an official 4.82.


http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/ratings/profile.php?pyid=119343

 

[jterrell]

Why would he be limited to a DE in just a 34? It's pretty clear to me that he has the speed and agility, when healthy, to play DE in a 43 as well.

You are suggesting he do something on the NFL level he has never done in college.

You are using 2012 tape versus a terrible opponent to scout his athleticism?

Seriously, you are making a singular call here. No one else is suggesting he is a 4-3 DE. He is a DT on every draft profile I've seen.

He is very likely to be 310-315 his rookie year and playing inside. It is far more likely he ends up 325 than it is he ends up 295.

For what you want to do with him he is a round 3 pick. He'd be a position gamble and an injury risk. A 3-4 team seeing him as a bigger Justin Smith or poor man's JJ Watt I can buy but 4-3 SDE? Only in packages where he kicks inside to 2 gap. He is not a guy you want on an edge.

 

[jterrell]

Actually, he did run a 4.82 official, in his 1st attempt but pulled on his 2nd attempt and recorded a 5.07. That's why his number is 4.92 but he did run an official 4.82.


http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/ratings/profile.php?pyid=119343

not at the ND pro day nor at the NFL combine, no he did not run AT ALL.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/stephon-tuitt?id=2543483

He ran at his high school without any official electronic timings at all then tweeted he ran a 4.8 as clocked by... his high school coach.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

JT is saying IF Marinelli wanted to go big at DE he'd use Melton who is far less big than Tuitt and has actually played 4-3 DE before. Chicago obviously was not hurting for DEs under Marinelli....

I do not think Marinelli would prefer to do that, though in certain sets we may well see it.

That's fair but Marinelli did draft Melton with DE in mind. He was moved to DT, not because Chicago was too stacked at DE. In fact, Chicago needed help at DE in 2010. Gains died, Alex Brown left, Ogunleye was a UFA (who was their starter at LDE the previous year and they had no 1st round pick. Melton was definitely brought in to play DE. It just didn't work out that way.

 

[jterrell]

That's fair but Marinelli did draft Melton with DE in mind. He was moved to DT, not because Chicago was too stacked at DE. In fact, Chicago needed help at DE in 2010. Gains died, Alex Brown left, Ogunleye was a UFA (who was their starter at LDE the previous year and they had no 1st round pick. Melton was definitely brought in to play DE. It just didn't work out that way.

a) Marinelli didn't draft Melton at all. Marinelli didn;t come to the Bears until the following season and his first comments on Melton were "we are gonna give him first shot at 3T".
b) Melton was 270 at the NFL combine.
c) Melton ran a 4.58 40 at his Pro Day.
d) Melton was a RB in high school up the road from me and moved to DE after 2 years at UT.

Again, not sure what we are even debating.
Melton was smaller and faster CLEARLY.
You don't have a good handle on Tuitt at all.
He is heavier and slower than you are proposing.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You are suggesting he do something on the NFL level he has never done in college.

You are using 2012 tape versus a terrible opponent to scout his athleticism?

Seriously, you are making a singular call here. No one else is suggesting he is a 4-3 DE. He is a DT on every draft profile I've seen.

He is very likely to be 310-315 his rookie year and playing inside. It is far more likely he ends up 325 than it is he ends up 295.

For what you want to do with him he is a round 3 pick. He'd be a position gamble and an injury risk. A 3-4 team seeing him as a bigger Justin Smith or poor man's JJ Watt I can buy but 4-3 SDE? Only in packages where he kicks inside to 2 gap. He is not a guy you want on an edge.

No. I'm watching him run away from RBs for a TD of about 75 yards. I don't care who the team is. If you can run 75 yards and not be brought down from behind by a skilled player, thats impressive and that does not suggest slow, by any means. If you don't agree, that's fine but what I am suggesting is perfectly reasonable. At least, these guys think it is.

http://BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1/scoutingreport2014stuitt.php

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/stephon-tuitt?id=2543483

http://nfldraftgeek.com/stephontuitt_scoutingreport.html

And there are several others who also believe he can play DE in a 43. The fact that he can do either is upside IMO. I think he can play DE in a 43. In the great Eagle Defenses of the early 90s, Reggie White was the LDE and Clyde Simmons was the RDE and they both went about 6-5 295. This is not an unheard of idea or some revolutionary concept. It has been done in the past.

 

[xwalker]

Why would he be limited to a DE in just a 34? It's pretty clear to me that he has the speed and agility, when healthy, to play DE in a 43 as well.

Nothing is impossible, but the draft is about probabilities.

At his current weight, Tuitt would be the biggest pure 4-3 DE in the league. Red Bryant is bigger but Seattle ran a hybrid front and he didn't function as a pure 4-3 DE. When they were in a true 4-3 type front they would bring in guys like Bennett and Avril to replace Bryant.

The probability of a prediction is very low when you are predicting a draft pick to be the biggest guy at his position in the league.