Achilles Heel

The Duke

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No not Greg Ellis' but Roy Williams.

Hey, I'm drinking the kool-aid for the team after the mini-camp. I want to be so excited for this team, but I'm struggling because we have the king of burnt toast causing a gaping whole in our secondary. Roy Williams stinks so bad in coverage. He's one of the rare top 10 safety picks of all time and his entire career all they can talk about is getting him out of his primary responsibility by playing him closer to the line and "out of coverage" completely. Face it. He is the absolute worst cover safety in the league. Without the highligh hits and high draft status, he would have been cut by now. Other teams make due with no name guys and we get a "pro bowler" who is a bigger liability than help.

We're promised again this year he will play closer to the line, but scheming cannot cover up his faults. You want him as a linebacker in nickel or dime coverage. Well, he got burned one-on-one on the goal line last year at Dallas by Shockey and the line of scrimmage was about the 10 as I recall. This was not downfield, wide open spaces. This was small confined spaces. It's embarassingly bad. Then let's not mention the Saints game when it is in open spaces (getting 360'd spun around). He can't even cover a slower TE on a seam route in Seattle which is what really cost us the game.

The all time highlight reel worst was the year before when he got burned on desperation deep passes late in the game by TWICE by Washington.

How is Phillips going to make up for Roy blitzing at Seattle and getting juked in the backfield which is supposed to be what everybody wants every play?

Roy making the Pro Bowl last year made me want to vomit. It just adds fuel to the fire of his arrogance to not think there is a problem (see his comments this week at the mini-camp, which is what spaeked this rant).

I was praying the "almost" Detroit trade that asked for the pro bowler on defense was RW. This way we get rid of the biggest reason why we will not win the Super Bowl.

Can anybody name a bigger liability in coverage as a starting safety in the league than RW (other than a rookie like Pat Watkins)?

He needs to A) change his attitude by quit blaming everybody else but himself (see mini-camp comments again). B) lose some "biscuits" and get faster. C) take a note from Darren Woodson and practice some cornerbacking to improve safety coverage.

As frustrated as I am with the thought of RW in coverage, I get madder at Jerry Jones for the contract extension that guarantees the RW dead weight will torture us for years to come and prevent signing better players in free agency.

Sorry, rant off.
 

Vintage

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You would think Roy, if he was the worst cover safety in the NFL, would have given up the most TD's this year.

But he wasn't.

But it was an NFC East S who did.

The all time highlight reel worst was the year before when he got burned on desperation deep passes late in the game by TWICE by Washington.

How do you confuse Aaron Glenn with Roy Williams? They look nothing alike.


Also, check out this link. It explains stuff....

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/login.php?do=logout&logouthash=c5efd796a402ef0f101109b2d03f8bf7
 

superpunk

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This is the absolute worst thread I've ever seen.

The "Misinformed-Hyperbolic-Orators" convention is currently being held in Antarctica. Get your tickets and a parka, now.
 

Vintage

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superpunk;1501529 said:
This is the absolute worst thread I've ever seen.

The "Misinformed-Hyperbolic-Orators" convention is currently being held in Antarctica. Get your tickets and a parka, now.


Worse than all of the Philo Beddoe's QB threads?

Seems a stretch to me.....

Perhaps we should open this debate up for a poll....? Care to put your money where your mouth is superpunk?

:D
 

The Duke

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"How do you confuse Aaron Glenn with Roy Williams? They look nothing alike."

Aaron Glenn pulled up thinking RW was going to help. The reciever went right past RW TWICE.

As a safety with deep half coverage responsibility, how is it not his fault?
 

Vintage

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The Duke;1501539 said:
Aaron Glenn pulled up some thinking RW was going to help. The reciever went right past RW TWICE.

As a safety with deep half coverage responsibility, how is it not his fault?


One one of the plays, Roy was given responsibility of another WR.....and had to cover him.

He broke off that coverage to try to help Glenn, who had gotten beat.

Had Roy not maintained his responsibility, that WR would have been wide open and Brunell would have hit him with a pass anyway.

Guess Roy is damned if he does; damned if he doesn't
 

superpunk

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Vintage;1501536 said:
Worse than all of the Philo Beddoe's QB threads?

Seems a stretch to me.....

Perhaps we should open this debate up for a poll....? Care to put your money where your mouth is superpunk?

:D

I don't believe philo actually believed anything he posted.

This post seems a different animal altogether.
 

Hoofbite

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The Duke;1501539 said:
"How do you confuse Aaron Glenn with Roy Williams? They look nothing alike."

Aaron Glenn pulled up thinking RW was going to help. The reciever went right past RW TWICE.

As a safety with deep half coverage responsibility, how is it not his fault?

And this Roys fault how?

I think both are responsible for those plays but Glenn was just as much at fault as anyone. Im pretty sure I read a statement of his where he said this and also admitted to trying to get the INT.
 

The Duke

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Vintage;1501548 said:
One one of the plays, Roy was given responsibility of another WR.....and had to cover him.

He broke off that coverage to try to help Glenn, who had gotten beat.

Had Roy not maintained his responsibility, that WR would have been wide open and Brunell would have hit him with a pass anyway.

Guess Roy is damned if he does; damned if he doesn't


Again, deep half coverage responsibility means having 2 receivers coming into the area and having to peel off and cover either reciever.

It was very late in the game. He should have known he was too slow as a safety and started an extra 5-10 deeper than early in the game for a prevent defense which is what they were already in.

Either way, to get burned late in the game and then turn around and get burned with like a minute left and a desperation deep throw on the exact same route by the exact same reciever. Explain that away.
 

AbeBeta

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Roy is a problem.

But not because of coverage. Most SS aren't so great in coverage.

Roy is the problem because he's been counted on to be a leader on this team and he hasn't stepped up.
 

Vintage

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Vintage said:
22203_512.jpg

Here is Aaron Glenn going for the INT as opposed to either making the tackle, or knocking the ball down.

big_md-i202640.jpg

This is taken half a second later.
8x220x175x1,property=original.jpg

Who was responsible for this TD?

On the second TD play, Roy was assinged to zone coverage. It was in the area underneath Moss's route. He saw the ball go up, tried to go over to make the play, but was too far away to really make a play on it.
And yet, he "sucks" at coverage bec. of this said play. Nevermind the fact that he is a SS trying to catch up to a 5'9" speed WR that he wasn't assigned too, having covered a different area completely.
But don't take my word for it, ask Bill Parcells himself....

Here is the link to the Press Conference, available for download...
http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/cowboys/demand/parcells_092105.rm

As for the first TD, this one is really easy to defend Roy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKcl-sfEiEM&search=santana%20moss
It wasn;t Roy's responsibility at all.
If you watch the slow motion replay, beginning at the 20 second mark, watch for Terence Newman (#41). He releases the slot receiver to Roy Williams, who shadows the slot receiver.
Roy leaves that WR once the ball is in the air to try and make a play on Moss.
Not even close to Roy's fault.
But the media says otherwise. And so do most people. But that's bec. most people just listen to the media.


Yanked from another board...

Someone much smarter than I.......feel free to correct any mistakes.
 

superpunk

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Chapman: Trouble at mill.
Cleveland: Oh no - what kind of trouble?
Chapman: One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treadle.
Cleveland: Pardon?
Chapman: One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treadle.
Cleveland: I don't understand what you're saying.
Chapman: [slightly irritatedly and with exaggeratedly clear accent] One of the cross beams has gone out askew on the treadle.
Cleveland: Well what on earth does that mean?
Chapman: *I* don't know - Mr Wentworth just told me to come in here and say that there was trouble at the mill, that's all - I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.

[JARRING CHORD]

[The door flies open and Cardinal Ximinez of Spain [Palin] enters, flanked by two junior cardinals. Cardinal Biggles [Jones] has goggles pushed over his forehead. Cardinal Fang [Gilliam] is just Cardinal Fang]

Ximinez: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

[The Inquisition exits]

Chapman: I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.

[JARRING CHORD]

[The cardinals burst in]

Ximinez: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms - Oh damn!
[To Cardinal Biggles] I can't say it - you'll have to say it.
Biggles: What?
Ximinez: You'll have to say the bit about 'Our chief weapons are ...'
Biggles: [rather horrified]: I couldn't do that...

[Ximinez bundles the cardinals outside again]

Chapman: I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.

[JARRING CHORD]

[The cardinals enter]

Biggles: Er.... Nobody...um....
Ximinez: Expects...
Biggles: Expects... Nobody expects the...um...the Spanish...um...
Ximinez: Inquisition.
Biggles: I know, I know! Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. In fact, those who do expect -
Ximinez: Our chief weapons are...
Biggles: Our chief weapons are...um...er...
Ximinez: Surprise...
Biggles: Surprise and --
Ximinez: Okay, stop. Stop. Stop there - stop there. Stop. Phew! Ah! ... our chief weapons are surprise...blah blah blah. Cardinal, read the charges.
Fang: You are hereby charged that you did on diverse dates commit heresy against the Holy Church. 'My old man said follow the--'
Biggles: That's enough.
[To Cleveland] Now, how do you plead?
Clevelnd: We're innocent.
Ximinez: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

[DIABOLICAL LAUGHTER]

Biggles: We'll soon change your mind about that!

[DIABOLICAL ACTING]

Ximinez: Fear, surprise, and a most ruthless-- [controls himself with a supreme effort] Ooooh! Now, Cardinal -- the rack!

[Biggles produces a plastic-coated dish-drying rack. Ximinez looks at it and clenches his teeth in an effort not to lose control. He hums heavily to cover his anger]

Ximinez: You....Right! Tie her down.

[Fang and Biggles make a pathetic attempt to tie her on to the drying rack]

Ximinez:Right! How do you plead?
Clevelnd: Innocent.
Ximinez: Ha! Right! Cardinal, give the rack [oh dear] give the rack a turn.

[Biggles stands their awkwardly and shrugs his shoulders]

Biggles: I....
Ximinez: [gritting his teeth] I *know*, I know you can't. I didn't want to say anything. I just wanted to try and ignore your crass mistake.
Biggles: I...
Ximinez: It makes it all seem so stupid.
Biggles: Shall I...?
Ximinez: No, just pretend for God's sake. Ha! Ha! Ha!

[Biggles turns an imaginary handle on the side of the dish-rack]

[Cut to them torturing a dear old lady, Marjorie Wilde]

Ximinez: Now, old woman -- you are accused of heresy on three counts -- heresy by thought, heresy by word, heresy by deed, and heresy by action -- *four* counts. Do you confess?
Wilde: I don't understand what I'm accused of.
Ximinez: Ha! Then we'll make you understand! Biggles! Fetch...THE CUSHIONS!

[JARRING CHORD]

[Biggles holds out two ordinary modern household cushions]

Biggles: Here they are, lord.
Ximinez: Now, old lady -- you have one last chance. Confess the heinous sin of heresy, reject the works of the ungodly -- *two* last chances. And you shall be free -- *three* last chances. You have three last chances, the nature of which I have divulged in my previous utterance.
Wilde: I don't know what you're talking about.
Ximinez: Right! If that's the way you want it -- Cardinal! Poke her with the soft cushions!

[Biggles carries out this rather pathetic torture]

Ximinez: Confess! Confess! Confess!
Biggles: It doesn't seem to be hurting her, lord.
Ximinez: Have you got all the stuffing up one end?
Biggles: Yes, lord.
Ximinez [angrily hurling away the cushions]: Hm! She is made of harder stuff! Cardinal Fang! Fetch...THE COMFY CHAIR!

[JARRING CHORD]

[Zoom into Fang's horrified face]

Fang [terrified]: The...Comfy Chair?

[Biggles pushes in a comfy chair -- a really plush one]

Ximinez: So you think you are strong because you can survive the soft cushions. Well, we shall see. Biggles! Put her in the Comfy Chair!

[They roughly push her into the Comfy Chair]

Ximinez [with a cruel leer]: Now -- you will stay in the Comfy Chair until lunch time, with only a cup of coffee at eleven. [aside, to Biggles] Is that really all it is?
Biggles: Yes, lord.
Ximinez: I see. I suppose we make it worse by shouting a lot, do we? Confess, woman. Confess! Confess! Confess! Confess
Biggles: I confess!
Ximinez: Not you!

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LittleBoyBlue

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The Duke;1501525 said:
No not Greg Ellis' but Roy Williams.

Hey, I'm drinking the kool-aid for the team after the mini-camp. I want to be so excited for this team, but I'm struggling because we have the king of burnt toast causing a gaping whole in our secondary. Roy Williams stinks so bad in coverage.<---


I gave you the benefit of the doubt and read up until this point.....


Roy is a playmaker. He has made many plays. Plays where he has come into an assignment that wasnt his and either broke up pass or INT'd it.

Now a few things come into play.

You have to give opposing teams/players some credit for being successful AGAINST any opposing defender. Thats logical. You will not EVERY battle.

If you are going to help your teammate on his assignment and a TD is scored pass completed... you cant blame Roy.
 

Royal Laegotti

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The Duke;1501525 said:
No not Greg Ellis' but Roy Williams.

Hey, I'm drinking the kool-aid for the team after the mini-camp. I want to be so excited for this team, but I'm struggling because we have the king of burnt toast causing a gaping whole in our secondary. Roy Williams stinks so bad in coverage. He's one of the rare top 10 safety picks of all time and his entire career all they can talk about is getting him out of his primary responsibility by playing him closer to the line and "out of coverage" completely. Face it. He is the absolute worst cover safety in the league. Without the highligh hits and high draft status, he would have been cut by now. Other teams make due with no name guys and we get a "pro bowler" who is a bigger liability than help.

We're promised again this year he will play closer to the line, but scheming cannot cover up his faults. You want him as a linebacker in nickel or dime coverage. Well, he got burned one-on-one on the goal line last year at Dallas by Shockey and the line of scrimmage was about the 10 as I recall. This was not downfield, wide open spaces. This was small confined spaces. It's embarassingly bad. Then let's not mention the Saints game when it is in open spaces (getting 360'd spun around). He can't even cover a slower TE on a seam route in Seattle which is what really cost us the game.

The all time highlight reel worst was the year before when he got burned on desperation deep passes late in the game by TWICE by Washington.

How is Phillips going to make up for Roy blitzing at Seattle and getting juked in the backfield which is supposed to be what everybody wants every play?

Roy making the Pro Bowl last year made me want to vomit. It just adds fuel to the fire of his arrogance to not think there is a problem (see his comments this week at the mini-camp, which is what spaeked this rant).

I was praying the "almost" Detroit trade that asked for the pro bowler on defense was RW. This way we get rid of the biggest reason why we will not win the Super Bowl.

Can anybody name a bigger liability in coverage as a starting safety in the league than RW (other than a rookie like Pat Watkins)?

He needs to A) change his attitude by quit blaming everybody else but himself (see mini-camp comments again). B) lose some "biscuits" and get faster. C) take a note from Darren Woodson and practice some cornerbacking to improve safety coverage.

As frustrated as I am with the thought of RW in coverage, I get madder at Jerry Jones for the contract extension that guarantees the RW dead weight will torture us for years to come and prevent signing better players in free agency.

Sorry, rant off.


Hey, Roy said it's not his fault he gets burned, it's always someone else's man, not sure exactly who his man is though, not sure if he knows either, but he knows it's just not his man.:rolleyes:

So, I guess when the other 10 guys figure out what they're doing on D then Roy will never get burned again:confused: , since it's not his fault and the guy he's chasing with the ball going over the goal line is not his man.:rolleyes:

But I guess Roy leads by example, follow the leader, the leader's following the guy running away with the ball.:mad: This is the Cowboys new championship attitude for 2007, I guess!

:bang2:

:star: :star: :star: :star: :star:
 
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