After further review a week later, Refs stole game from Cowboys vs Packers once again

[MarcusRock]

Hey, glad you recognize my work!

Listen, I saw your video and it's base and basic at its best. It's full of "because there could be fraud, yeah, there's fraud" suppositions and makes Goodell into some puppeteer who says who wins and loses (obviously the Cowboys are on the lose list, lol). What did I disagree with? Here's a single one to chew on.

About that court case, your video states:

False. The case stated that just because something happened on the field outside of the league's rules like with Spygate, you, the fans only contracted to come in and see a game with a ticket and have no remedy if you think it wasn't an "honest" (or crappy) game. Same way you can't sue if a fan comes out of the stands to tackle a runner on the way to a game-winning TD that the NFL doesn't automatically rule a TD and that team loses. So naturally, the video takes the most evil leap and says the NFL puts on dishonest games because they can and the court would support them if they did. This is your "proof?" I also like how they show pics of controversial plays that were actually correct as called by the rules but stir up the 'spiracy feelings in viewers. I mean, I could cook up better subliminals than that. Lol.
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Here is the actual legal opinion from the case: https://casetext.com/case/mayer-v-belichick-3

If you read through it, you'll see that the decision to deny the plaintiff was based on legal precedence going as far back as the scab replacement games in 1989 because someone sued about those. In case you didn't catch it, 1989 is 17 years before Roger Goodell took over as commissioner in the NFL. In fact, people have been suing for refunds over concert performances and sports performances that were subpar for years before that case and all were denied or thrown out. Someone sued the Rams because they sucked in 1999 (7 years before Goodell). Basically, the precedence says you're entitled to get into an event you wanted when you buy a ticket. Nothing else is guaranteed. Court decisions like this go back as far as 1905 [Collister v. Hayman, 76 N.E. 20 (N.Y. 1905)]!!! So then let's take huge leaps and fill in the gaps to say that the NFL is going to rig games under Goodell because NOW fans can't stop us. Uh, courts have been saying that for over a century already.
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So your video's premise that Goodell as Dark Lord doesn't seem to hold more weight than the suggestion I gave off the top of my head, which is that the NFL, already having been through the courts over the years to fend off idiotic lawsuits from overzealous fans prior to Goodell, probably labels itself entertainment to protect against future loons in this age of "conspiracy because I didn't get what I wanted" the same as entertainment acts who fend off lawsuits because a singer didn't hit a high enough note as the recorded song or the performer was drunk and they didn't "get their money's worth." Are there not better rickshaws to chase through the streets? Really?

Yoohoo, @Jarv. Never heard your response to this. Care to comment?

 

[Diehardblues]

No. I don’t thing there’s an organized league effort either. I’m really not sure how else to say it so you or others can understand. It’s like a mental barrier I can’t breach. I guess I will accept that you can’t understand what I’m saying.

Maybe so. I fully grasp the bullish manner in which the NFL operates but the integrity of the game is of the utmost importance .

If that’s compromised then the entire entity could crumble . Beginning with their Anti-Trust which enables their monopoly on Network TV &Tax-Exempt status which is the benchmark for their success.

The NFL has exemplified it doesn’t matter which team has success as their popularity and revenue continues increasing. The Cowboys are a great example .

This notion that there is some type of corruption with officials or a bias among some officials is nothing more than sour grapes derived from some poor officiating .

I guess during our championship years this wasn’t an issue. But I do still recall frustration from poor officiating . I’m afraid it’s just a part of the game until proven otherwise .

 

[Vtwin]

I agree. The league is run on many of those agendas but that doesn’t translate to organized corrupt officiating .

I'm not on the 'league is out to screw the Cowboys' bus, but it is fair to say that any calls made with any agenda other than strictly enforcing the rules does translate into organized corrupt officiating.

Both the timing and the call itself, of that holding call in OT is suspect imo.

I don't blame the officials for the loss, as it shouldn't have come down to allowing that one play to determine the outcome, but still.....

 

[DogFace]

You asked about a key call in our favor. You mentioned the Hitchens thing so I think it's only fair to note we got a big benefit on our game winning TD drive in that same game. On 4th and 6, we converted but Suh was held. It should have been 4th and 16. The league came out and admitted it was a botched call at a key point in the game.

Should I be surprised by your response? Likely not.

Did the league ever come out and say they missed one on the David Irving tackle style hold on Green Bay’s game deciding play?

A missed hold, which I’d love to see, is a common thing. It’s also a missed call. Which is different from a made call. It’s reasonable to assume refs miss some calls, but to make up calls that aren’t there or a SEVERE stretch of the rules (illegal huddle) are far different imo.

Id guess the hold on Suh wasn’t nearly as egregious as the miss on David Irving. I don’t know how it could be unless a weapon was involved.

False equivalency. That’s an important term to me and a missed hold on a drive is an example of that. We both know there are many missed holds.

 

[DogFace]

Maybe so. I fully grasp the bullish manner in which the NFL operates but the integrity of the game is of the utmost importance .

If that’s compromised then the entire entity could crumble . Beginning with their Anti-Trust which enables their monopoly on Network TV &Tax-Exempt status which is the benchmark for their success.

The NFL has exemplified it doesn’t matter which team has success as their popularity and revenue continues increasing. The Cowboys are a great example .

This notion that there is some type of corruption with officials or a bias among some officials is nothing more than sour grapes derived from some poor officiating .

I guess during our championship years this wasn’t an issue. But I do still recall frustration from poor officiating . I’m afraid it’s just a part of the game until proven otherwise .

Can you understand my feeling that an individual referee could exhibit bias and that bias has nothing to do with the NFL or any agreement they are a part of?

 

[ESisback]

Like in corporate and governmental arenas, the rules of “the game” have been rigged to benefit the 2%—insidious and virtually impossible to prove.

The fact that subjective penalties often influence games to control ratings is by design. WWE.

 

[Diehardblues]

I'm not on the 'league is out to screw the Cowboys' bus, but it is fair to say that any calls made with any agenda other than strictly enforcing the rules does translate into organized corrupt officiating.

Both the timing and the call itself, of that holding call in OT is suspect imo.

I don't blame the officials for the loss, as it shouldn't have come down to allowing that one play to determine the outcome, but still.....

The rules themselves have agendas. Especially with head trauma . And the league has agendas , etc.

That still doesn’t translate into organized corruption by officials .

But sure the timing of the call like many other numerous questionable calls are very frustrating and don’t always make sense. There again though translating this to bias or corruption by officials is totally unfounded with any evidence whatsoever.

And I’d argue that the Cowboys success is what’s in the best interest of the league if there was corruption to alter the results of the game thru officiating.

 

[Diehardblues]

Like in corporate and governmental arenas, the rules of “the game” have been rigged to benefit the 2%—insidious and virtually impossible to prove.

The fact that subjective penalties often influence games to control ratings is by design. WWE.

I suppose it depends where you are playing in the arena . Most people don’t make the correct choices in life to allow themselves to be in the arena .

I’ve been involved either directly or indirectly in both arenas . And the system works as it was intended .

Not everyone places themselves in a position to be a part of it . They become outsiders and feel that everyone is out to get them.

Calling it rigged is just a way of denouncing or not accepting their own failures. Or lack of effort to be a part of it.

The system isn’t perfect . It has flaws. Can be manipulated , etc. It also has check and balances.

 

[DogFace]

The rules themselves have agendas. Especially with head trauma . And the league has agendas , etc.

That still doesn’t translate into organized corruption by officials .

But sure the timing of the call like many other numerous questionable calls are very frustrating and don’t always make sense. There again though translating this to bias or corruption by officials is totally unfounded with any evidence whatsoever.

And I’d argue that the Cowboys success is what’s in the best interest of the league if there was corruption to alter the results of the game thru officiating.

Illegal huddle
False start on long snapper
Delay of game on D law
Unsportsmanlike conduct on Jason Garrett for arguing a call—something we see literally every Sunday not called
Long Streaks of zero holds despite it being the most common call and that we led league in hurries.
Two costly tripping calls in one game on all pro center


All of these calls have only happened to one team. With several of them only happening to one team. Evidence? Call it flimsy if you want. It’s still evidence.

 

[Diehardblues]

Can you understand my feeling that an individual referee could exhibit bias and that bias has nothing to do with the NFL or any agreement they are a part of?

I suppose anything is possible . But officials are reviewed after every game and end of season.

Surely if there was any indication at all an individual was bias they’d be suspended or terminated.If not then we could begin to question some type of corruption within. Or intention to be bias.

Most likely though it’s like fans who become disgruntled over poor officiating. And in many cases rightfully so. I’ve been getting frustrated with officiating since I played Little League.

 

[Vtwin]

The rules themselves have agendas. Especially with head trauma . And the league has agendas , etc.

That still doesn’t translate into organized corruption by officials .

But sure the timing of the call like many other numerous questionable calls are very frustrating and don’t always make sense. There again though translating this to bias or corruption by officials is totally unfounded with any evidence whatsoever.

And I’d argue that the Cowboys success is what’s in the best interest of the league if there was corruption to alter the results of the game thru officiating.

I was responding to your statement, "The league is run on many of those agendas but that doesn’t translate to organized corrupt officiating."

That statement was made by you to address this, by another poster, "the game at the college level was very much run based on agendas, politics, media markets and conference shenanigans, etc,".

How is it not fair to say that any calls made to further any of those agendas is evidence of corruption on some level?

I also don't understand the reasoning that the Cowboys success is a major driver of league popularity. The league has never been more popular and the Cowboys are in the most sustained stretch of being unsuccessful in their existence. The Cowboys themselves are the draw regardless of whether they are successful or not. The Cowboys are the team more NFL fans love to hate over any other. I'd bet as many people tune into a primetime Cowboys game hoping to see them lose than see them win. There is certainly some logic behind the suggestion that the league benefits from the already huge drawing and high merch selling Cowboys losing to a lower profile team to boost that team's fanbase into buying those tickets and especially that merchandise.

Propping up less popular teams to spread the wealth, at the slight expense of already popular teams is good business.

Why wouldn't the league do this?

 

[Diehardblues]

Illegal huddle
False start on long snapper
Delay of game on D law
Unsportsmanlike conduct on Jason Garrett for arguing a call—something we see literally every Sunday not called
Long Streaks of zero holds despite it being the most common call and that we led league in hurries.
Two costly tripping calls in one game on all pro center


All of these calls have only happened to one team. With several of them only happening to one team. Evidence? Call it flimsy if you want. It’s still evidence.

It’s only evidence of poor , questionable and inconsistent officiating. Not evidence of individual bias or organized corruption.

 

[Sydla]

Did the league ever come out and say they missed one on the David Irving tackle style hold on Green Bay’s game deciding play?

A missed hold, which I’d love to see, is a common thing. It’s also a missed call. Which is different from a made call. It’s reasonable to assume refs miss some calls, but to make up calls that aren’t there or a SEVERE stretch of the rules (illegal huddle) are far different imo.

Id guess the hold on Suh wasn’t nearly as egregious as the miss on David Irving. I don’t know how it could be unless a weapon was involved.

False equivalency. That’s an important term to me and a missed hold on a drive is an example of that. We both know there are many missed holds.

Actually, I think the league did admit some mistakes in that GB game. Not sure about that specific play, however.

You are just spinning now. You asked for calls that went in our favor that could have affected the outcome. I pointed out one in a game you brought up. You conclude that since holds happen all that time, it doesn't qualify. LOL. OK. I can see it would be a waste of time continuing this discussion if you are just going to create bizarre parameters that suit your argument.

 

[Diehardblues]

I was responding to your statement, "The league is run on many of those agendas but that doesn’t translate to organized corrupt officiating."

That statement was made by you to address this, by another poster, "the game at the college level was very much run based on agendas, politics, media markets and conference shenanigans, etc,".

How is it not fair to say that any calls made to further any of those agendas is evidence of corruption on some level?

I also don't understand the reasoning that the Cowboys success is a major driver of league popularity. The league has never been more popular and the Cowboys are in the most sustained stretch of being unsuccessful in their existence. The Cowboys themselves are the draw regardless of whether they are successful or not. The Cowboys are the team more NFL fans love to hate over any other. I'd bet as many people tune into a primetime Cowboys game hoping to see them lose than see them win. There is certainly some logic behind the suggestion that the league benefits from the already huge drawing and high merch selling Cowboys losing to a lower profile team to boost that team's fanbase into buying those tickets and especially that merchandise.

Propping up less popular teams to spread the wealth, at the slight expense of already popular teams is good business.

Why wouldn't the league do this?

Good questions : I’ll try to answer.

The NFL has maintained throughout that the integrity of the games is of the most importance for the league to be a valid commodity. Any intended or organized collusion towards the results of the game could jeopardize the validity .

And since the league has committed to this standard they could be held liable . They also could face an investigation by Congressional oversight committee which could threaten their Anti Trust status which includes their monopoly on Network TV contracts and Tax Exempt status.

Taking these severe consequences in consideration we still have fans so frustrated with officiating , which we’ve always had, they want to believe the league is willing to jeopardize themselves and enormous success on throwing a few games because it enhances their already record revenue .

It just doesn't add up with me. And I’ve been very critical of many aspects of the NFL and how they’ve evolved over the years as more of an “ Entertainment “ sports league or entity.

But some fans are taking it too far with comparisons to WWE. I get the frustration. But they are basically saying the NFL is Fake Football. Sounds like sour grapes to me over suspect officiating .

And until we have further proven evidence , even a Whistleblower, of official corruption I’m not buying it . The leagues success doesn’t need to throw games . Just sour grapes from frustrated fans.

 

[CowboysLakerBamaFan]

Funny how you add the past 12 years. Did you have to go that far to see the Packers ultimately get flagged barely more than the Cowboys? I didn't even bother to check, so I will take your biased word for it.

How about since 2016 during this Dak and Zeke era that has affected this team the past 7 years against the Packers? Why don't you put those results down? I already did my homework. Even took screenshots. It definitely blows your point out of the water since it's blatantly clear Aaron Rodgers and the Packers have been getting helped by the officials BADLY!

Want me to post those screenshots so I can make you look silly, or are you and your pals going to take my word the way I took yours for stretching your argument by having to go 12 years way back to find a result to fit your narrative, even though what happened 10-12 years ago has nothing to do with how the officiating has affected today's Dak/Zeke led Cowboys the past 7 years.

I'll wait for your response and see if you truly want to be embarrassed or not. You decide.

Why would I be BIASED towards the Packers? There are few teams I hate more.

I was just including 12 years to include a broader range of games. If you're fixated on 10 years for whatever reason, packers had SEVEN more flags than us.

Yes, please post your screenshots to make me look silly. I don't think you have the goods, so consider ur bluff called!

 

[CowboysLakerBamaFan]

But WHEN did they happen in the game? Did they impact scoring?

Well, maybe ur right.

Maybe all the flags refs call on our opponents are meaningless and don't hurt our opponents at all, and all of the flags thrown at us severely help our opponents.

Seems like a totally normal, objective, non paranoid, non-spoiled-child way of looking at the situation

 

[Diehardblues]

Actually, I think the league did admit some mistakes in that GB game. Not sure about that specific play, however.

You are just spinning now. You asked for calls that went in our favor that could have affected the outcome. I pointed out one in a game you brought up. You conclude that since holds happen all that time, it doesn't qualify. LOL. OK. I can see it would be a waste of time continuing this discussion if you are just going to create bizarre parameters that suit your argument.

Right!

The league continues to admit there were mistakes . And they make new rule changes when there is blatant calls which are based on rules which need amendment . Like the Dez catch. The interference in Rams/ Saints championship game . New rules as a result .

 

[CowboysLakerBamaFan]

When the first excuse doesn't work, move the goal posts. This thread is hilarious.

It's crazy how people look for excuses.

It's such a loser mentality.

Show me a team of players, or any company for that matter, who constantly looks for external excuses for failure like 75% of the fans here do, and I'll show you an organization mired in mediocrity (at best).

Maybe it's just the millennial-mindset: Not My Fault....and Give Me What I Want Whether I've Earned It Or Not.

 

[Diehardblues]

The integrity of the results is the highest priority of the league . Without its validity the league becomes nothing more than Fake Football and it would quickly spiral down in popularity ultimately depleting the value of franchises and revenue, probably ending up on cable TV at best. I’m not sure the league could survive .

Maybe this is what some of these frustrated fans want if they can’t have a perfectly called football game where the officials are computerized or robotic and everything is called consistently with no mistakes that could cost them a game . It’s just not realistic with the human element.

Sorry, but officiating has always been a part of the game. And every sport . Have to take the good with the bad . And when it’s real bad you lobby for rule changes . And or reprimand the officials. If there is any bias or corruption discovered then you prosecute it to the full extent of the law .

 

[Vtwin]

Good questions : I’ll try to answer.

The NFL has maintained throughout that the integrity of the games is of the most importance for the league to be a valid commodity. Any intended or organized collusion towards the results of the game could jeopardize the validity .

And since the league has committed to this standard they could be held liable . They also could face an investigation by Congressional oversight committee which could threaten their Anti Trust status which includes their monopoly on Network TV contracts and Tax Exempt status.

Taking these severe consequences in consideration we still have fans so frustrated with officiating , which we’ve always had, they want to believe the league is willing to jeopardize themselves and enormous success on throwing a few games because it enhances their already record revenue .

It just doesn't add up with me. And I’ve been very critical of many aspects of the NFL and how they’ve evolved over the years as more of an “ Entertainment “ sports league or entity.

But some fans are taking it too far with comparisons to WWE. I get the frustration. But they are basically saying the NFL is Fake Football. Sounds like sour grapes to me over suspect officiating .

And until we further proven evidence , even a Whistleblower, of official corruption I’m not buying it . It would be the greatest scandal in sports.

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe the NFL is under any legal obligation to provide a fair playing field. They could legally decide who wins the SB in March and make it happen.

Now going to that extreme would be a terrible mistake and be very bad for business, but the only thing realistically keeping the league from doing that is entirely profit driven, not legally driven.

Why would anyone blow the whistle? Everyone who's income comes from an association with the NFL benefits from a business strategy that increases profits. A little "manipulation" here and there benefits everyone, including the players.

The league has modified and added rules to be very subjective.
They are now involved in and profiting from the gambling side of the business.

The league has both motive and opportunity to easily tweak things here and there to the benefit of everyone who gets a piece of that very large pie without going full blow WWE.

I've been around to long to believe that the spirit of fair play will override the opportunity to legally and essentially risk free, tilt things slightly towards profits.

I want things to be the way you see them but I can't ignore the myriad of things that point the other way, smoking gun or no smoking gun.

To be clear, my thoughts on this are not based on the fortunes of the Cowboys alone. I'm absolutely not scapegoating the league for the lack of Cowboys success.