Alamo Bowl: Baylor vs Washington

[The30YardSlant]

I love how you pat A&M on the back but kick everyone else as they are incapable.

If you can't see the differences between the fan support, money, recruits, facilities, etc. between A&M and baylor then there's no point in holding this discussion. It is not an insult to say that Baylor lacks certain vital aspects a program needs to become what Aikbach believes they will.

 

[Doomsday101]

If you can't see the differences between the fan support, money, recruits, facilities, etc. between A&M and baylor then there's no point in holding this discussion. It is not an insult to say that Baylor lacks certain vital aspects a program needs to become what Aikbach believes they will.

It is a slap to say they can't.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

In my opinion I don't think it is every foolish to stay the extra year. Guys like Aikman and Manning did and both have said it was the right choice. If it is just about the draft position and money right now then leave if it is about giving yourself the best oppertunity for the long haul I think you are better off staying.

I don't have anything against players staying in school but in the case of Griffin, I don't really see him getting much out of staying. His offense will be depleted and as such, I see Baylor leaning on Griffin more and more next year. I don't see his game developing. I see his game regressing to be honest. I think you will see Baylor using Griffin to run more rather then develop in the passing game. I see him making less money and probably not having as good a chance to actually get drafted by a team that is decent as opposed to horrible. I watch Griffin and I see a lot of Doug Williams in him. If he waits a year, it's possible that he could end up in the same kind of situation Williams did in Tampa Bay.

JMO

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't have anything against players staying in school but in the case of Griffin, I don't really see him getting much out of staying. His offense will be depleted and as such, I see Baylor leaning on Griffin more and more next year. I don't see his game developing. I see his game regressing to be honest. I think you will see Baylor using Griffin to run more rather then develop in the passing game. I see him making less money and probably not having as good a chance to actually get drafted by a team that is decent as opposed to horrible. I watch Griffin and I see a lot of Doug Williams in him. If he waits a year, it's possible that he could end up in the same kind of situation Williams did in Tampa Bay.

JMO

Physical stand point not much, the mental stand point I think any kid especially a QB is better served spending the extra time.

I don't fault any kid coming out early I just think you are better served by staying than you are leaving early

 

[Aikbach]

If you can't see the differences between the fan support, money, recruits, facilities, etc. between A&M and baylor then there's no point in holding this discussion. It is not an insult to say that Baylor lacks certain vital aspects a program needs to become what Aikbach believes they will.

Better to groom three star recruits like RG3, Wright and Ganaway into studs than to underachieve with four and five star recruits that get benched for converted wide receivers at the quarterback position.

Seeming Briles has unearthed Kolb, RG3, Keenum back to back, I think it's safe to say he knows a thing or two about quarterbacks.

 

[Doomsday101]

Better to groom three star recruits like RG3, Wright and Ganaway into studs than to underachieve with four and five star recruits that get benched for converted wide receivers at the quarterback position.

Seeming Briles has unearthed Kolb, RG3, Keenum back to back, I think it's safe to say he knows a thing or two about quarterbacks.

He does do that but he better learn something about defense or at least brings in someone who can run defense. Texas Tech is an exciting team but unless they learn how to play defense they will never get over the hump and same could be said about Baylor.

I'm not trying to knock them but you’re not going to have much consistency if you can't put a defense out there that can make plays

No doubt Briles offense can put up points but you are not going to be a contending team when you have to depend on putting 60 points on the board.

 

[Aikbach]

He does do that but he better learn something about defense or at least brings in someone who can run defense. Texas Tech is an exciting team but unless they learn how to play defense they will never get over the hump and same could be said about Baylor.

I'm not trying to knock them but you’re not going to have much consistency if you can't put a defense out there that can make plays

No doubt Briles offense can put up points but you are not going to be a contending team when you have to depend on putting 60 points on the board.

No offense taken, the whole enchilada comes in parts, Phil Bennett was hired away from Pitt to help build something but Baylor only has about three defenders worth a damn, they need 8 more.

 

[joseephuss]

In my opinion I don't think it is every foolish to stay the extra year. Guys like Aikman and Manning did and both have said it was the right choice. If it is just about the draft position and money right now then leave if it is about giving yourself the best oppertunity for the long haul I think you are better off staying.

I don't think it is foolish to stay an extra year, either, but the Aikman and Manning situations were different from each other and from what RGIII faces.

Aikman started at Oklahoma and then transferred to UCLA. He really needed to stay at UCLA in 1988 in order to get plenty of playing experience. Troy barely played in 84 and 84 while at OU. He sat out 86 as a transfer and then played extensively in 87 at UCLA. Had Troy left early he would have left college with only 310 pass attempts. Staying allowed that number to go up to 637 pass attempts. As is Troy didn't even start 3 years worth of games in his college career.

Manning never red shirted. He went back to spend 4 total years in college played in 49 games and had 1381 pass attempts.

RGII has been at Baylor for 4 seasons with one being a red shirt due to injury. He has started about 3 1/2 seasons worth of college games, played in 41 games and attempted 1192 passes.

Griffin has more game experience than Aikman and similar experience to Manning. He has more experience than either of those guys had when they were debating on whether to stay or go pro.

Sure an extra year won't hurt, but he has a ton of experience. He is not one of those cases where a guy leaves early and really never played that many games.

This is not like someone like Cam Newton(292 pass attempts) who only played one season of major college ball. Or Michael Vick(342 pass attempts) who was only at VaTech for 3 years and only played in 2 of those years. Or Mark Sanchez(487 pass attempts) who was at USC for four years(one redshirt), but did not play in that many games. Those are the guys along with a whole bunch of others that had far less experience than Griffin does right now.

 

[Aikbach]

I don't think it is foolish to stay an extra year, either, but the Aikman and Manning situations were different from each other and from what RGIII faces.

Aikman started at Oklahoma and then transferred to UCLA. He really needed to stay at UCLA in 1988 in order to get plenty of playing experience. Troy barely played in 84 and 84 while at OU. He sat out 86 as a transfer and then played extensively in 87 at UCLA. Had Troy left early he would have left college with only 310 pass attempts. Staying allowed that number to go up to 637 pass attempts. As is Troy didn't even start 3 years worth of games in his college career.

Manning never red shirted. He went back to spend 4 total years in college played in 49 games and had 1381 pass attempts.

RGII has been at Baylor for 4 seasons with one being a red shirt due to injury. He has started about 3 1/2 seasons worth of college games, played in 41 games and attempted 1192 passes.

Griffin has more game experience than Aikman and similar experience to Manning. He has more experience than either of those guys had when they were debating on whether to stay or go pro.

Sure an extra year won't hurt, but he has a ton of experience. He is not one of those cases where a guy leaves early and really never played that many games.

This is not like someone like Cam Newton(292 pass attempts) who only played one season of major college ball. Or Michael Vick(342 pass attempts) who was only at VaTech for 3 years and only played in 2 of those years. Or Mark Sanchez(487 pass attempts) who was at USC for four years(one redshirt), but did not play in that many games. Those are the guys along with a whole bunch of others that had far less experience than Griffin does right now.

All fine points but the intangible is a whole lot of life experience comes between 21 and 22 and a 22 year old is that much more mature for the pros than a 21 year old, I think based on last night's post game quotes and Kenndell Wright's public insistence that Griffin stay, he may be returning.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't think it is foolish to stay an extra year, either, but the Aikman and Manning situations were different from each other and from what RGIII faces.

Aikman started at Oklahoma and then transferred to UCLA. He really needed to stay at UCLA in 1988 in order to get plenty of playing experience. Troy barely played in 84 and 84 while at OU. He sat out 86 as a transfer and then played extensively in 87 at UCLA. Had Troy left early he would have left college with only 310 pass attempts. Staying allowed that number to go up to 637 pass attempts. As is Troy didn't even start 3 years worth of games in his college career.

Manning never red shirted. He went back to spend 4 total years in college played in 49 games and had 1381 pass attempts.

RGII has been at Baylor for 4 seasons with one being a red shirt due to injury. He has started about 3 1/2 seasons worth of college games, played in 41 games and attempted 1192 passes.

Griffin has more game experience than Aikman and similar experience to Manning. He has more experience than either of those guys had when they were debating on whether to stay or go pro.

Sure an extra year won't hurt, but he has a ton of experience. He is not one of those cases where a guy leaves early and really never played that many games.

This is not like someone like Cam Newton(292 pass attempts) who only played one season of major college ball. Or Michael Vick(342 pass attempts) who was only at VaTech for 3 years and only played in 2 of those years. Or Mark Sanchez(487 pass attempts) who was at USC for four years(one redshirt), but did not play in that many games. Those are the guys along with a whole bunch of others that had far less experience than Griffin does right now.

Not saying RGIII situation is exactly the same. Again I'm not talking physical I'm talking the mental aspect of the game and the overall maturity. Because QB is looked at the leader I think being able to stay another year only benefits you. If we were talking RB or WR or some other position I don’t think it would be as big of a deal.

 

[WV Cowboy]

I watched Baylor last night because I had never seen RG3 play.

What did I see?

You tell me, ... was this indicative of a normal game from Baylor?

 

[Zaxor]

The only good reason to stay in school is if he doesn't there is a good chance he ends up being in D.C. playing for the Skins

 

[Aikbach]

I watched Baylor last night because I had never seen RG3 play.

What did I see?

You tell me, ... was this indicative of a normal game from Baylor?

Offensively yes they are explosive, the defense played it's worst game of the season, but they are a bad defense in general.

the offense is arguably the best in the country.

 

[joseephuss]

All fine points but the intangible is a whole lot of life experience comes between 21 and 22 and a 22 year old is that much more mature for the pros than a 21 year old, I think based on last night's post game quotes and Kenndell Wright's public insistence that Griffin stay, he may be returning.

Not saying RGIII situation is exactly the same. Again I'm not talking physical I'm talking the mental aspect of the game and the overall maturity. Because QB is looked at the leader I think being able to stay another year only benefits you. If we were talking RB or WR or some other position I don’t think it would be as big of a deal.

Again, I am not against him staying, but he is already very mature. More mature than most guys in his situation. He started college early. He has a bachelors degree and is close to his master degree. He will be turning 22 in February. The guy has more life experience and maturity than most guys in his position have had in the past.

I also don't think he is going to learn much more as a college QB. Art Briles runs a particular type of system. Briles isn't going to suddenly change his system to prepare Griffin for the NFL. What Griffin needs to learn he will not get by staying at Baylor. He will get it in the pros.

While there is a benefit to staying I don't think it outweighs the risks in Griffin's case. Someone like Vince Young or Ryan Leaf would have had way more reason to stay and mature a bit more before growing pro. Griffin is about as ready as he is going to be. I will respect his decision if he chooses to stay, but I think he is ready to start his pro career.

 

[Doomsday101]

I watched Baylor last night because I had never seen RG3 play.

What did I see?

You tell me, ... was this indicative of a normal game from Baylor?

Just my view I think RGIII took a big step this season. IN past season I saw him really more as just a running QB who had a good arm. This season I saw a kid who used his legs more often to find targets down the field. He still runs as part of the Baylor offense but he is a more refined passer than in the past 3 season

 

[Doomsday101]

Again, I am not against him staying, but he is already very mature. More mature than most guys in his situation. He started college early. He has a bachelors degree and is close to his master degree. He will be turning 22 in February. The guy has more life experience and maturity than most guys in his position have had in the past.

I also don't think he is going to learn much more as a college QB. Art Briles runs a particular type of system. Briles isn't going to suddenly change his system to prepare Griffin for the NFL. What Griffin needs to learn he will not get by staying at Baylor. He will get it in the pros.

While there is a benefit to staying I don't think it outweighs the risks in Griffin's case. Someone like Vince Young or Ryan Leaf would have had way more reason to stay and mature a bit more before growing pro. Griffin is about as ready as he is going to be. I will respect his decision if he chooses to stay, but I think he is ready to start his pro career.

All I can do is give you my opinion and my feeling about QB leaving early.

Thing is when Vince came out no one was saying he should stay in school he was ready according to everyone. I felt Vince needed to stay but was told all he will do is hurt his draft status or the money. Both are important but I also think if you want to get the most out of your career for the long haul I think QB's are better off staying than leaving.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

What are the chances Griffin stays in college?

 

[joseephuss]

All I can do is give you my opinion and my feeling about QB leaving early.

Thing is when Vince came out no one was saying he should stay in school he was ready according to everyone. I felt Vince needed to stay but was told all he will do is hurt his draft status or the money. Both are important but I also think if you want to get the most out of your career for the long haul I think QB's are better off staying than leaving.

I disagree. There were plenty of people saying Vince should have stayed one more year. Yes, it could have hurt his draft status and money, but as you said in the long haul he would have been better off.

Andrew Luck risked his draft status. Leinart did hurt his draft status by staying in school. Draft status and money aren't the only factors that need to be looked at when making these decisions. In my opinion, Griffin's draft status or rookie contract is not likely to change much if at all if he stays one more year unless injured, which is the gamble.

I don't think all cases are the same or things can be overgeneralized to apply to every QB. Each circumstance is different. That is why I responded specifically to your comments about Aikman and Manning. Their situations were very different. They say they benefited by staying an extra year and I believe them. I also believe both needed to stay, especially Aikman, but since Griffin is in such a different situation he doesn't need to stay. Sure it can help, but isn't needed. That doesn't mean every QB who has been at school for 4 years with one redshirt year is ready. You would have to look at the whole picture to make those determinations. In Griffin's case, he is ready in my opinion.

 

[Aikbach]

What are the chances Griffin stays in college?

I'd say 50/ 50.

 

[Doomsday101]

I disagree. There were plenty of people saying Vince should have stayed one more year. Yes, it could have hurt his draft status and money, but as you said in the long haul he would have been better off.

Andrew Luck risked his draft status. Leinart did hurt his draft status by staying in school. Draft status and money aren't the only factors that need to be looked at when making these decisions. In my opinion, Griffin's draft status or rookie contract is not likely to change much if at all if he stays one more year unless injured, which is the gamble.

I don't think all cases are the same or things can be overgeneralized to apply to every QB. Each circumstance is different. That is why I responded specifically to your comments about Aikman and Manning. Their situations were very different. They say they benefited by staying an extra year and I believe them. I also believe both needed to stay, especially Aikman, but since Griffin is in such a different situation he doesn't need to stay. Sure it can help, but isn't needed. That doesn't mean every QB who has been at school for 4 years with one redshirt year is ready. You would have to look at the whole picture to make those determinations. In Griffin's case, he is ready in my opinion.

I have not said any of them are the exact same situation. I still think QB's are better off staying in school the extra year. If you disagree fine but it does not change my mind. Right now he is treated like a God you go pro the game is over it is business and all too often these kids are not ready for this animal they will face. If you can stay the extra year I would say do it because fun and games are about to go out the window and any failure will be layed at your feet as the QB