Alec Baldwin

Runwildboys

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It was a live firearm NOT A PROP. I am amazed you do not understand that just because it was on a production site somehow that FACT is not important.
ONCE AGAIN whose hand was it in?

UNLESS you can show some law that says movie production sites are SOMEHOW exempt from the rest of the UNITED STATES, then you are full of it.
Relax. There's no need for working firearms on a movie set. Do we know if Alec even knew it was a real gun, or did he assume it was a prop? If he knew it was a working weapon, then yes, he's guilty of negligence, but everyone who knew it was a real gun holds some responsibility, especially if they were playing with it off set, as someone alluded to earlier.
It's stupid and negligent in itself just having it there, when it could easily be substituted with a nonworking weapon.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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A prop gun is indeed a real gun unless made of rubber or plastic of course. This particular firearm was a blank-firing revolver. Those particular guns require a special license to operate. Even though the blank does not have a bullet in it, there is gunpowder which is still extremely dangerous. Apparently, some reloaded ammo got mixed in with the blanks, I stopped paying attention to what actually happened from there.

Regardless, never point a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot. Alec was negligent here and didn’t follow proper safety procedures. You can clearly see if there is ammo in a revolver, always assume it is live when handling the gun.

Yeah, that’s actually not the case.

Movie sets are supposed to have someone on the set specifically in charge of managing firearms and safety.
 

Tabascocat

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Yeah, that’s actually not the case.

Movie sets are supposed to have someone on the set specifically in charge of managing firearms and safety.

Yea, the armorer(or weapons master) controls all of that but the last person to handle the gun is also responsible for the last check, especially on blank-firing guns because it is not a fake prop. This wasn’t for filming or even rehearsing, it was horseplay(allegedly). Baldwin has worked with a lot of firearms and should know better and that is why I said it was negligence on Alecs part, not manslaughter or anything.
 

Vtwin

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You can tell who has even the slightest bit of experience with a firearm and who doesn't.

The gun Baldwin fired was a Pieta SAA, an authentic reproduction of the original Colt SAA aka The Peacemaker. It is a fully functioning gun very popular in the world of Cowboy Action Sports. It was not specially modified in any way for the purpose of shooting blanks. It is easy to check the condition of the gun by simply uncovering the loading port and spinning the cylinder. Takes about five seconds.

Basic gun safety training consists of learning just four simple rules of safe handling.

1. Treat every gun as if it was loaded, Always.
2. Do not point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep finger off trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

It is just that simple. I have participated in safety training classes held so young hunters can meet the requirements to get their first hunting license. One thing we always do at some point is check/clear a gun right in front of an individual, hand it to the individual then typically have to give them a hard time because they trusted what they just saw with their own eyes and didn't check it themselves to make damn sure.


Every single one of those rules was violated by Baldwin. It matters not one bit how many people made how many mistakes before Baldwin made the final, fatal error.
 

Tabascocat

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You can tell who has even the slightest bit of experience with a firearm and who doesn't.

The gun Baldwin fired was a Pieta SAA, an authentic reproduction of the original Colt SAA aka The Peacemaker. It is a fully functioning gun very popular in the world of Cowboy Action Sports. It was not specially modified in any way for the purpose of shooting blanks. It is easy to check the condition of the gun by simply uncovering the loading port and spinning the cylinder. Takes about five seconds.

Basic gun safety training consists of learning just four simple rules of safe handling.

1. Treat every gun as if it was loaded, Always.
2. Do not point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep finger off trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

It is just that simple. I have participated in safety training classes held so young hunters can meet the requirements to get their first hunting license. One thing we always do at some point is check/clear a gun right in front of an individual, hand it to the individual then typically have to give them a hard time because they trusted what they just saw with their own eyes and didn't check it themselves to make damn sure.


Every single one of those rules was violated by Baldwin. It matters not one bit how many people made how many mistakes before Baldwin made the final, fatal error.

Spot on, said it better than I could but one thing stands out to me. I am under the impression that a revolver doesn’t need to be modified in any way to shoot blanks, it can fire both. They were using it both for firing blanks in the movie and live ammo for plinking in between from my understanding. Nevertheless, Baldwin was the last to handle it and the fault lies with him.
 

Vtwin

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Spot on, said it better than I could but one thing stands out to me. I am under the impression that a revolver doesn’t need to be modified in any way to shoot blanks, it can fire both. They were using it both for firing blanks in the movie and live ammo for plinking in between from my understanding. Nevertheless, Baldwin was the last to handle it and the fault lies with him.
That's true. Any gun can fire a blank it can chamber. That was my ham-fisted way to say that it was a real gun with no modifications and should have been treated as such by Baldwin, even though blanks can be used in it.

One way to make this a non-issue going forward would be to have the gunmakers produce "prop" guns in a currently nonexistent chambering and produce blank cartridges in that chambering. It would be physically impossible to load the gun with anything but the blanks while keeping the realism of the real gun.
 

nightrain

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This incident is complicated by the fact Baldwin was also a producer of the film and he bears responsibility for the production set. At least from a legal standpoint. But I doubt he will be held criminally responsible for the shooting unless it turns out that he was responsible for having live ammo on the set or he was told the gun was hot. For example, if it turns out there was some live round target shooting and horsing around going on before the incident and Baldwin was involved, then he could have a problem.

Civilly, he has some big legal issues. Supposedly some safety training was skipped. That’s a liability for him as the producer. If there are lawsuits I can see some major problems for him. But someone on the set was supposed to check the gun and didn’t. Then claimed the gun was safe. That person could have criminal and civil liability.
This is it and well said. Apparently the prop person, from reports, was an unqualified tribute hire and had issues in other productions. The sharks will be swimming around this for quite some time. There will likely be a bankruptcy filing for the production company and it will take years for this to be resolved. The Lawyers will eat up any claim money and the civil plaintiffs will be left in perpetuity with an uncollected settlement.
 

Tabascocat

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That's true. Any gun can fire a blank it can chamber. That was my ham-fisted way to say that it was a real gun with no modifications and should have been treated as such by Baldwin, even though blanks can be used in it.

One way to make this a non-issue going forward would be to have the gunmakers produce "prop" guns in a currently nonexistent chambering and produce blank cartridges in that chambering. It would be physically impossible to load the gun with anything but the blanks while keeping the realism of the real gun.

:thumbup:

I thought it was a shot at me for calling it a blank-firing gun even though I said it was a real one a few times :muttley:
 

terra

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This is it and well said. Apparently the prop person, from reports, was an unqualified tribute hire and had issues in other productions. The sharks will be swimming around this for quite some time. There will likely be a bankruptcy filing for the production company and it will take years for this to be resolved. The Lawyers will eat up any claim money and the civil plaintiffs will be left in perpetuity with an uncollected settlement.
All too often Lawyers are the only winners.
Shakespeare had it right.
 

Runwildboys

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Rumor has it that there were three previous negligent discharges before Alecs :facepalm:
New laws need to be passed, or something more effective than laws, like insurance companies insisting on the cessation of the use of working firearms on a set. You raise the insurance rates, or refuse to insure any production that doesn't comply, and I guarantee that'll fix the problem.
 

CyberB0b

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You can tell who has even the slightest bit of experience with a firearm and who doesn't.

The gun Baldwin fired was a Pieta SAA, an authentic reproduction of the original Colt SAA aka The Peacemaker. It is a fully functioning gun very popular in the world of Cowboy Action Sports. It was not specially modified in any way for the purpose of shooting blanks. It is easy to check the condition of the gun by simply uncovering the loading port and spinning the cylinder. Takes about five seconds.

Basic gun safety training consists of learning just four simple rules of safe handling.

1. Treat every gun as if it was loaded, Always.
2. Do not point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep finger off trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

It is just that simple. I have participated in safety training classes held so young hunters can meet the requirements to get their first hunting license. One thing we always do at some point is check/clear a gun right in front of an individual, hand it to the individual then typically have to give them a hard time because they trusted what they just saw with their own eyes and didn't check it themselves to make damn sure.


Every single one of those rules was violated by Baldwin. It matters not one bit how many people made how many mistakes before Baldwin made the final, fatal error.


Most of that goes out the window on a movie set, where they’re pretending to kill each other.
 

rags747

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Even though the gun should never of been handed to Baldwin in that condition, he still should have taken the five seconds to check it. He should not have pointed the gun at someone, pulled back the hammer then pulled the trigger, especially without taking the five seconds to verify its condition. Doubly especially since they weren't filming, or even formally rehearsing, Had they been filming or formally rehearsing it is very likely there wouldn't have been a human in direct path of the bullet.

It was an accident in the way that he didn't mean to shoot and kill his coworker but it was an accident caused by negligence. The negligence started well before the gun was in his hands but that doesn't excuse his own negligence.

If anyone of us was handed a gun by a buddy who told us it was clear and we shot and killed someone with it are we getting a pass?

The Italian made Peacemaker I own has by far the lightest and crispest trigger of any of my guns. Even the Kimber target model 1911 isn't as responsive. This thing is scary and I have even my most experienced know-it-all buddies dry fire it first to make sure they know I'm not joking before loading it up.
Kimber, Yonkers NY baby! Although not anymore.
 

rags747

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Who last had the gun in their hand, who pulled the trigger or let the hammer slam, who aimed and shot an innocent mom and wife to death. Are we really saying that Baldwin has ZERO responsibility? Great role in Glen Garry Glen Ross, but this is gonna cost him one way or the other. If it was my wife I would be attacking all involved including Baldwin who was a freaking Producer on the movie. Karma is a female dog.
 

Praxit

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....I recently saw a pic of him, boy he looks terrible. The event has aged him dramatically. I personally dont feel he's responsible. His job is to act, not take care of other jobs.

The ammo or gun person OR persons, should be getting main attention. Its all in the Credits, every person is named for their particular job.
 

Pass2Run

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I think there was obvious negligence, but I can't imagine it was a premeditated action..................unless some crazy new information has come to light that I am not aware of.

I believe just the opposite. I actually think there are criminal charges coming for Alec.

I've seen him completely out of his mind with anger way too many times in the past, and his narcissism is sickening. He's exactly the type of person who can kill someone, and not feel any remorse about it, and even fake like he's upset in some way.

Right now, I believe he's trying to make it really look like he's deflecting blame for a future civil suit. But I think he's only doing that because he wants the criminal investigators to believe that's what he's actually worried about.

Personally, I see a man who is guilty of something, who has a guilty conscience, and has gone to great lengths to rehearse and practice his alibi for how this was all just an accident.

They were shooting on the set, there's something really fishy about this whole thing. And that's the part that has yet to be made public.. I think the police are sitting on this, gathering evidence to make their case before he's arrested. And the only reason he hasn't already been arrested is because who he is.. and the fact he's media savvy, or can be, and has money.
 

Pass2Run

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....I recently saw a pic of him, boy he looks terrible. The event has aged him dramatically. I personally dont feel he's responsible. His job is to act, not take care of other jobs.

The ammo or gun person OR persons, should be getting main attention. Its all in the Credits, every person is named for their particular job.

He looks like a killer... He's aged, and I think that's part of why he flew off the handle on this woman, he's insecure about how bad he looks, and she wanted better shots to not capture how bad he looks, and he lost it...shot her over it. I seriously think it was something along these lines that happened. I've learned a lot about body language and reading people over the years, so this is just what I see.

Was curious if anyone else saw it the same.
 

Pass2Run

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There are blank firing weapons that cannot fire live ammunition. Why in the world was one of them not used?

They are more expensive as their ammunition if very carefully made to be non lethal.

Would it change your mind that if people on the set were shooting live rounds at or near the set before this happened?

It's not like live rounds were unheard of or something. They were shooting them during breaks on set...

So, this isn't an excuse, like at all, for me.
 
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