Always a body catcher

[TheCount]

800 yards and 3 TDs isn't going to cut it.

It's a good thing everyone else was so great around him.

 

[Chuck 54]

Irvin caught tons of passes with his hands and plenty above his head or low, but he caught tons of slants against his body...the difference is Irvin had excellent hands, but when an accurate QB puts it between your numbers, of course you use the body. That's nothing like Williams actually leaping into the air to try and trap the ball against his body rather than snatching it and running.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Then, let the bodies hit the floor.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

He's a solid number two. He's just not the coveted 1B. That's okay. Alvin Harper was strictly a number two.

 

[Frozen700]

Dude is garbage.

When dez gets doubled, he can barely beat hit man consistently. Then when Romo tries let him make a play, he can't because he wants to look the ball into his chest, and allows defenders to defend easily against him.

He makes his occasional plays, but he's not consistent. He makes plays that a number 3 or 4 should make when used to come in as a one trick pony

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's a good thing everyone else was so great around him.

None of the QBs were afraid to make throws outside. Cassell and Weeden were extremely reluctant to throw it in the middle of the field unless it was a first option. So what specifically is the reason you find that, despite QBs willingness to throw outside making him far and away the number 1 option down in and down out in the passing game, for that type of production?

Nevermind that teams were also stacking the box because they weren't worried about covering the middle of the field and we had an efficient running attack.

My reason is that TWill struggles to consistently get open against single coverage because of a route tree that is limited by poor change of direction explosion and poor technique in catching the ball. Bracket coverage absolutely dominates him. In short, he is easy to take out of games. That is evidenced by his regular disappearing act.

 

[Hoofbite]

There's no denying he body catches as much as possible. The difference between that and attacking the ball is the difference between making a play and letting a play come to you.

The comparisons to Irvin miss the fact that their games are entirely different. When Williams moves inside and starts running routes that put him in a position to immediately get hit then we can compare the two.

 

[TheCount]

None of the QBs were afraid to make throws outside. Cassell and Weeden were extremely reluctant to throw it in the middle of the field unless it was a first option. So what specifically is the reason you find that, despite QBs willingness to throw outside making him far and away the number 1 option down in and down out in the passing game, for that type of production?

Nevermind that teams were also stacking the box because they weren't worried about covering the middle of the field and we had an efficient running attack.

My reason is that TWill struggles to consistently get open against single coverage because of a route tree that is limited by poor change of direction explosion and poor technique in catching the ball. Bracket coverage absolutely dominates him. In short, he is easy to take out of games. That is evidenced by his regular disappearing act.

I too believe that Terrance Williams is not Dez Bryant.

I buy that Terrance isn't a great receiver, I do not buy that he's the sole reason the offense stunk last season.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Then, let the bodies hit the floor.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I too believe that Terrance Williams is not Dez Bryant.

I buy that Terrance isn't a great receiver, I do not buy that he's the sole reason the offense stunk last season.

I never said that either. Not remotely. He is still the worst starter on offense right now and lacks athleticism that top receivers have.

In general I don't look to complain. I look to improve.

 

[KJJ]

Just because he showed up in the GB loss with 3 whole catches does not exonerate him for the egg he laid the previous 8 weeks.

If you're referring to the loss to the Packers in 2014 he showed up the previous week big time with a couple of huge TD plays vs Detroit. He out produced Dez in the playoffs that season. Earlier that year after a few game lull he came to life in a huge game vs Seattle with an incredible catch on the sidelines that helped win that game. He didn't use his body on that catch. He's had a knack his entire career of showing up in big games and making clutch catches. In 2014 Romo called him the most clutch receiver in the game and it is debatable when you analyze all the big plays he's made. Last season with 7 seconds to play vs NO he made an outstanding diving catch in the endzone that sent that game to OT and he made that play with Brandon Weeden at QB.

In the first 2 games last season he had 9 catches for 144 yards and one TD. The 2 TD passes Weeden tossed last season for the Cowboys were both caught by Twill. For Twill to be successful he needs to be complimented by a strong #1 receiver it was the same with Alvin Harper. Harper was never very productive and no one complained because the Cowboys were winning championships and he made a lot of clutch plays. Once he left Dallas for Tampa who tried to turn him into a #1 receiver he flopped. No #2 receiver is ever going to be real productive with Dez and Witten receiving most of the targets. Back in the 90s Irvin and Novacek were the main receivers Aikman targeted.

The Cowboys realize that Twill has a problem disappearing and eventually it could cost him his job if he starts disappearing in important games and the clutch plays stop. If he gets injured and someone like Butler comes in and has a huge game that could keep him on the bench. As long as he continues this knack of making clutch plays and scoring TDs he's going to stay on the field. In 3 seasons he's caught 16 regular season TDs that's pretty impressive for a receiver playing opposite a TD machine like Dez Bryant. Some here want Witten benched but no receiver on the team moves the chains as often as he does.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If you're referring to the loss to the Packers in 2014 he showed up the previous week big time with a couple of huge TD plays vs Detroit. He out produced Dez in the playoffs that season. Earlier that year after a few game lull he came to life in a huge game vs Seattle with an incredible catch on the sidelines that helped win that game. He didn't use his body on that catch. He's had a knack his entire career of showing up in big games and making clutch catches. In 2014 Romo called him the most clutch receiver in the game and it is debatable when you analyze all the big plays he's made. Last season with 7 seconds to play vs NO he made an outstanding diving catch in the endzone that sent that game to OT and he made that play with Brandon Weeden at QB.

In the first 2 games last season he had 9 catches for 144 yards and one TD. The 2 TD passes Weeden tossed last season for the Cowboys were both caught by Twill. For Twill to be successful he needs to be complimented by a strong #1 receiver it was the same with Alvin Harper. Harper was never very productive and no one complained because the Cowboys were winning championships and he made a lot of clutch plays. Once he left Dallas for Tampa who tried to turn him into a #1 receiver he flopped. No #2 receiver is ever going to be real productive with Dez and Witten receiving most of the targets. Back in the 90s Irvin and Novacek were the main receivers Aikman targeted.

The Cowboys realize that Twill has a problem disappearing and eventually it could cost him his job if he starts disappearing in important games and the clutch plays stop. If he gets injured and someone like Butler comes in and has a huge game that could keep him on the bench. As long as he continues this knack of making clutch plays and scoring TDs he's going to stay on the field. In 3 seasons he's caught 16 regular season TDs that's pretty impressive for a receiver playing opposite a TD machine like Dez Bryant. Some here want Witten benched but no receiver on the team moves the chains as often as he does.

I see people wanting Witten to sometimes come off the field but I don't recall anyone wanting him benched.

You are too tied into categories. TWill is not Alvin Harper and that is just a mindless comparison because they were both Cowboys. Specifically, Harper had speed that TWill could only hope to have. Defenses adjusted to it while defenses can regularly single cover TWill and get away with it.

For TWill to be successful he needs constant single coverage by a poor DBand even then he still might disappear.

 

[KJJ]

I see people wanting Witten to sometimes come off the field but I don't recall anyone wanting him benched.

You are too tied into categories. TWill is not Alvin Harper and that is just a mindless comparison because they were both Cowboys. Specifically, Harper had speed that TWill could only hope to have. Defenses adjusted to it while defenses can regularly single cover TWill and get away with it.

For TWill to be successful he needs constant single coverage by a poor DBand even then he still might disappear.

There's a lot of posters on this board and don't try and pretend you see every single post because no one here does not even the mods. I've seen a least a couple of posts from fans who not only want Witten benched but gone. Had a debate with Risen Star a couple of months ago who wants Witten replaced as soon as possible. As for Harper and Twill many have made comparisons between the two where have you been?

This is just your way of looking to start an argument to can keep this going. Harper and Twill had comparable speed with Harper having a 4.42 40 and Twill a 4.46 40 at the combine. If Harper was a burner he would have turned Aikman's slant vs SF in the 92 NFC title game into a TD instead of being run down. Most of Harpers big plays down the field didn't involve beating defenders for TD's they involved out jumping defenders and taking the ball away.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There's a lot of posters on this board and don't try and pretend you see every single post because no one here does not even the mods. I've seen a least a couple of posts from fans who not only want Witten benched but gone. Had a debate with Risen Star a couple of months ago who wants Witten replaced as soon as possible. As for Harper and Twill many have made comparisons between the two where have you been?

This is just your way of looking to start an argument to can keep this going. Harper and Twill had comparable speed with Harper having a 4.42 40 and Twill a 4.46 40 at the combine. If Harper was a burner he would have turned Aikman's slant vs SF in the 92 NFC title game into a TD instead of being run down. Most of Harpers big plays down the field didn't involve beating defenders for TD's they involved out jumping defenders and taking the ball away.

Nice strawman but I never said that. I just said that I hadn't seen it while I had seen quite a bit of the other.

We're already having an argument. If you think this is trying to make you mad then you haven't seen me try is all I can really say. If you cannot have an argument and not get mad then that isn't my problem.

It's funny that you mention Harper high pointing balls though in light of your comparison.

 

[KJJ]

Nice strawman but I never said that. I just said that I hadn't seen it while I had seen quite a bit of the other.

We're already having an argument. If you think this is trying to make you mad then you haven't seen me try is all I can really say. If you cannot have an argument and not get mad then that isn't my problem.

It's funny that you mention Harper high pointing balls though in light of your comparison.

We're having an argument because you look to start arguments and keep them going. You better drop that MO or I'm not going to be wasting anymore time with you. I don't have time to keep you entertained for several days because you enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing. You're the one who initiated this and you always end up with pie on your face when it's over. You said you don't "recall" seeing people wanting Witten benched but I have and pointed to one poster (Risen Star) who wants him replaced as soon as possible. I had a debate involving Witten a couple of months ago with several who don't think he has it anymore and are ready to move on from him. The Harper/Twill comparison has drawn plenty of discussion the past couple of years on this board and it has nothing to do with them physically or their style of play.

It's not a mindless comparison or it wouldn't come up so often, you just don't understand what the comparison is. It's been about their lack of production but their ability to produce big plays especially in critical games playing opposite dynamic #1 receivers. Harper never caught more than 36 passes in a season for the Cowboys but he made a lot of big plays down the field and produced 18 TD catches in his 4 seasons in Dallas. It's been similar with Twill, not a bunch of catches but a lot of big plays that have led to TD's especially in important games. Despite Witten having 81 more catches than Twill over the past 3 seasons they both have scored 16 TD's.

 

[jazzcat22]

Those 3 TD are the 'big plays he has shown he can make.' He had more opportunity last year than he has ever had in his career.

Characterizing as whining is a favorite deflection and trying to claim the complaint is only about his poor catch radius is gratuitous but made made of straw.

There is also the disappearing act he pulls every year. Showing up for only have lf the games each year is a significant issue that I want upgraded.

I'm not saying give his job to Butler either. I am not big on zero sum reasoning like that but I do want the position upgraded to improve performance of the team. We went 4-12 last year and couldn't score points despite an effective running game. That is not all on the QB.

I can't disagree with you. But I was talking 3 years worth of plays he has made, not just last year. But yes he should have stepped up last year no matter the QB. And was talking more about the body catches as to the other issues.
I just think he gets over criticized. He has shown he can make plays but all people whine about is he body catches. Seems to me he has made some very good hand catches too. [Seattle 2014}.

Do any of these critics have stats of caches made to drops, and how many are body catches made and drops. And legitimate drops, not ball placement, defended passes drops.
I mean there are a lot of HOF coaches, GM, experts on here to show some stats as opposed to run with stating it all the time.

Oops, I should not ask for stats, someone ran that up my arse when I asked him for stats...I think I finally put him and another on ignore for their insults over that one. LOL.
If Butler steps up, and they decide to let TWill test FA next year, I won't whine about it. Hopefully there is a deep WR class next year though, we can get one in the top 3 rounds, but then the Defense vs' Offense comes up again...LOL..

 

[DallasDomination]

Listen I'm not enamored with the body catcher either. But if we take him out of our line up then we have absolutely ZERO speed out there.

 

[PhillyCowboysFan]

Do any of these critics have stats of caches made to drops, and how many are body catches made and drops. And legitimate drops, not ball placement, defended passes drops.

He had 4 total drops last year in 16 games played on 93 targets. Just to compare, Dez had 5 drops in 9 games on 72 targets.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Listen I'm not enamored with the body catcher either. But if we take him out of our line up then we have absolutely ZERO speed out there.

TWill ran a 4.5. We don't have any speed without him as it is. Butler runs a 4.4. Lucky ran a 4.3 at his proday.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We're having an argument because you look to start arguments and keep them going. You better drop that MO or I'm not going to be wasting anymore time with you. I don't have time to keep you entertained for several days because you enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing. You're the one who initiated this and you always end up with pie on your face when it's over. You said you don't "recall" seeing people wanting Witten benched but I have and pointed to one poster (Risen Star) who wants him replaced as soon as possible. I had a debate involving Witten a couple of months ago with several who don't think he has it anymore and are ready to move on from him. The Harper/Twill comparison has drawn plenty of discussion the past couple of years on this board and it has nothing to do with them physically or their style of play.

It's not a mindless comparison or it wouldn't come up so often, you just don't understand what the comparison is. It's been about their lack of production but their ability to produce big plays especially in critical games playing opposite dynamic #1 receivers. Harper never caught more than 36 passes in a season for the Cowboys but he made a lot of big plays down the field and produced 18 TD catches in his 4 seasons in Dallas. It's been similar with Twill, not a bunch of catches but a lot of big plays that have led to TD's especially in important games. Despite Witten having 81 more catches than Twill over the past 3 seasons they both have scored 16 TD's.

Well it's been years and your still here arguing.

And your a Cowboys fan using Alvin Harper as the WR2 standard. If you cannot figure how that is convenient thnking then I don't know what to tell you. There is a whole league history out there.