Am I crazy...

Maikeru-sama

Mick Green 58
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sonnyboy;1160594 said:
That brings a good question to mind. Just how much game film/in-game data is needed to prove that Romo is a very good if not great QB.
I hope it's not the same amount defensive coordinators need to stop him.
That would suck!:D

More than 3 1/2 Games.

There are a bunch of teams that have not even faced Romo and have not had the "pleasure" of breaking down his strengths and weaknesses yet.

Romo had a bad game against the Giants, but after that he hasn't come back down to earth yet, if you are talking about his "qualitative" data (what you saw him do as opposed to his numbers).

I think he needs to get at least a full season under his belt to start making those comparisons.

How does Romo handle "higher expectations"? Right now I dont think expectations for him were "higher" than Mannings.

How does Romo handle a backup trying to take his job? Right now, Parcells says the job is his until he is in a hurst.

How does he handle an opponent like the Giants, Eagles, and Skins when they have seen him 2-3 times and have a feel for what he does?

Romo is still a big fat "enigma" at the moment but like the old saying goes, "Time will eventually tell".

Let's not declare the guy one of the elite QBs in the NFL just yet.

- Mike G.
 

chinch

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Hostile;1160072 said:
It is what I asked. Consider it my contribution to the thought process that I would actually consider what NFL teams might decide as relevant. Does that mean they are right and Cowboys fans are wrong? No, but it is still relevant and I will stick with my query if you don't mind, and even if you do.
it doesn't add to the thought process in discussing QBs objectively.

we know you would pretty much always go with the big name guy, all things close or equal. some GM/coaches suffer from the same tunnel vision and and it's cost many of them jobs over the years.
 

Hostile

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sonnyboy;1160568 said:
Not trying to argue with you, just wondering what you mean by Elite QB or that you're a QB Elitest.
What I ment was a QB with all the physical talents. ie 6-4 to 6-6, 230 to 250, rocket arm, played at highest collegiate level, 1st round draft grade.

I always felt the Cowboys' starting QB had to resemble much of this. Did not want a "limited" player at that most critcal position. Always felt these "limitations" would hurt the most at the highest level of competition.

With that said, my favorite non-Cowboy player has always been Montana. The all time best QB (better than Staubach and Aikman) had none of these ideal measurables.

I guess I'm one of the flip floppers. I like to think I just call it as I see it at the time I see it.
I didn't think you were arguing. By saying I am a QB elitest I suppose I am admitting that I will always favor the blue chips to the Cinderella Stories. This drives some on this forum nuts. They view it as me disliking or even hating our own players. Nothing could be further from the truth, but truth is hardly ever a neighbor in fandom.

In other words, if Tony Romo leads the Cowboys to a victory Sunday I will love the performance. I will not however be a blind homer who then says he is better than Peyton Manning. I don't over react like that. It means he got his team to play better that day. Nothing more.

That isn't a slight of our player in my opinion. Some don't see it that way. What amazes me is that tension over this opinion of mine has always been reserved for the QB position. If I say LaDanian Tomlinson is better than Julius Jones no one gets in a snit over it.

But heaven forbid if I say someone is better than our QB. There is always someone who is offended by this. I make no secret of my hope Henson would get "it." It goes back to that ceiling commentary. I doubt you'll ever find posts where I elevated him to Stauabch, Elway, Favre, and Montana comparisons. If I did it was probably in response to a direct question.

I don't expect Romo to be the next Brady of Favre or to be better than Eli Manning. I just expect him to play well. If we can have a better guy at QB I will be in favor of it. If a better guy can't be found, so be it.

By flip flopping I mean honoring a QB candidate with a username then having to change it. Or blindly praising a guy while he was here, then kicking him after he was gone. I didn't comment when Q was released. I didn't comment when Henson was. I didn't comment when Vinny wasn't re-signed. I didn't comment when Bledsoe was benched. The only thing I've focused on was how well did they play. When it ws good enough I've said so. When it wasn't I said so.

I've criticized every QB we've played when they have played badly. I don't thump my chest and exult in Q's dismissal from the team. I don't go seek out the Bledsoe homers and stick my tongue out at them. I don't go on the Church of Vinny site and rub their noses in it. If Henson had been the guy doing what Romo is I wouldn't be telling everyone who argued with me to bow and worship me.

Overall I've been very consistent. I still believe the Cowboys deserve the best possible QB they can have. I'm not going to change from that opinion. I want the best.
 

Hostile

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chinch;1160650 said:
it doesn't add to the thought process in discussing QBs objectively.

we know you would pretty much always go with the big name guy, all things close or equal. some GM/coaches suffer from the same tunnel vision and and it's cost many of them jobs over the years.
It does for those who have thought processes. Not every answer is "yes" or "no."

I'll "suffer" from my tunnel vision gladly.
 

chinch

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Hostile;1160656 said:
It does for those who have thought processes. Not every answer is "yes" or "no."

I'll "suffer" from my tunnel vision gladly.
it's not yes or no.... but you can discuss tony vs eli (leave peyton out of it please -- he's on a different stratosphere at this time) without mentioning who denny green and other "head coaches" prefer.

GMs often draft a guy (regardless of coaches input) and then the coach must make the choice work. Maybe coughlin would have drafted a different way, but acorsi wanted Eli at any cost... no "yes" or "no" there either.
 

sonnyboy

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Excuse me ABQCOWBOY and mickgreen58 but would you please stop p***ing on my fantasy with fact and reason!:D
 

Rampage

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state this topic at the end of thew year. romo has only played 3 games(though very immpressive) its only 3 games. but SHEli is overrated just cause he is rewlated to peyton
 

Hostile

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chinch;1160660 said:
it's not yes or no.... but you can discuss tony vs eli (leave peyton out of it please -- he's on a different stratosphere at this time) without mentioning who denny green and other "head coaches" prefer.

GMs often draft a guy (regardless of coaches input) and then the coach must make the choice work. Maybe coughlin would have drafted a different way, but acorsi wanted Eli at any cost... no "yes" or "no" there either.
If you say so. :rolleyes:

I think there's a lot more to it than that. Fans have the luxury of saying they like their guy better, therefore he is better. GMs and Coaches do not have that luxury. I think that matters in the equation. Thus it isn't yes or no for me until those things are considered.
 

Yeagermeister

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bigbadroy;1160681 said:
state this topic at the end of thew year. romo has onbly played 3 games(though very immpressive) its only 3 games. but SHEli is overrated just cause he is rewlated to peyton

Thanks Elmer ;)
 

kmd24

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cowboys19;1160713 said:
Hostile, why do you think Eli has more upside than Tony?

I'd like to hear the answer to this, too. As an SEC fan, I am fairly familiar with Eli's strengths and weaknesses, and I don't think he is more physically talented than Romo. He's got 2" of height, that's it.

That only leaves his ability to manage the game, which he still seems to struggle with after three years and 34 starts.
 

Hostile

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cowboys19;1160713 said:
Hostile, why do you think Eli has more upside than Tony?
I didn't say he has more upside, I said he has a higher ceiling. There is a difference be it ever so slight.

The next question should be will he reach that ceiling? I don't know and no one else does either.

Romo may have a lower ceiling and more upside. For instance, Romo comes at a much cheaper price. That is upside. Does that mean more potential, which is ceiling? No, it doesn't.

This is why I said it isn't a simple yes or no answer for me. Eli Manning took his team to an NFC crown last year and has them leading the division again this year. At some point in time that has to count for something.

Note, I'm not calling him (Eli) flawless or a perfect QB. The potential for greatness is higher. That means the potential for disappointment is higher as well. I acknowledge that. That would mean downside.
 

sonnyboy

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cowboys19;1160713 said:
Hostile, why do you think Eli has more upside than Tony?

Because he's a taller first round pick. Probably has a stronger arm. Did you see some of those rockets he was launching last nite. I was affraid for those Bear safties. I'm sure their was more than one cracked pair of shoulder pads!:D
 

sonnyboy

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"Romo may have a lower ceiling and more upside."

No offence, but this makes nooooo sense.
 

Hostile

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sonnyboy;1160752 said:
Because he's a taller first round pick. Probably has a stronger arm. Did you see some of those rockets he was launching last nite. I was affraid for those Bear safties. I'm sure their was more than one cracked pair of shoulder pads!:D
Yeah, it's as simple as that.

:wink2:

You guys just keep right on believing that.
 

Hostile

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sonnyboy;1160761 said:
"Romo may have a lower ceiling and more upside."

No offence, but this makes nooooo sense.
The very next sentence explained what I meant.
 

theogt

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I'm not sure it gets any more elite than dating Jessica Simpson. :busty:

:thumbup:
 

kmd24

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Hostile;1160750 said:
Romo may have a lower ceiling and more upside. For instance, Romo comes at a much cheaper price. That is upside.

With all due respect, Romo has shown his ceiling to be quite high during the past three games. If somehow Manning's ceiling is higher, then I think it would be safe to say that he is the one with higher upside.

The contracts and draft picks are what you pay to get a chance at a good QB. The odds are higher that you will hit on a great QB when you get a guy with all the physical attributes and the pedigree. But the attributes and the pedigree don't define the potential. They just give some hint to what the potential might be.

After you see the guy play, you can refine your estimates of his potential. We've seen enough of Eli to start refining our estimates, and, IMO, we should refine those estimates downward.
 
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