Am I crazy...

[Hostile]

I'm not sure it gets any more elite than dating Jessica Simpson. :busty:

Eli dated Britney. At one point that got the same wow factor. Leinart dated Paris Hilton and it got the same wow factor. Until any of them officially land one of these girls it doesn't mean much. I'm rooting for Tony in that department too, because I think she is easily the best looking of the 3, and the nicest too.

 

[theogt]

Eli dated Britney. At one point that got the same wow factor. Leinart dated Paris Hilton and it got the same wow factor. Until any of them officially land one of these girls it doesn't mean much. I'm rooting for Tony in that department too, because I think she is easily the best looking of the 3, and the nicest too.

Right. THey're all elite in my book.

 

[Hostile]

With all due respect, Romo has shown his ceiling to be quite high during the past three games. If somehow Manning's ceiling is higher, then I think it would be safe to say that he is the one with higher upside.

If you want to say Eli has a higher ceiling and more upside, that is your right.

The contracts and draft picks are what you pay to get a chance at a good QB. The odds are higher that you will hit on a great QB when you get a guy with all the physical attributes and the pedigree. But the attributes and the pedigree don't define the potential. They just give some hint to what the potential might be.

You are correct. This is upside. Tony Romo has worked hard to overcome whatever stigmas might be attached to not being drafted and playing for a Division II school. That is what I am saying.

After you see the guy play, you can refine your estimates of his potential. We've seen enough of Eli to start refining our estimates, and, IMO, we should refine those estimates downward.

I disagree with this last part. Expectations are always refined, but lowering them is wrong. They should always be raised. If a player doesn't reach his full potential it should never be because not much was expected of him.

 

[sonnyboy]

I'll admitt. 3.5 games is 3.5 games. No gettin around that. I also agree that durability is something that will only be established over time.
HOWEVER, I think we can all agree that Romo's start has been nothing short of remarkable. Numbers, especially with a small sampling can be skeewed. A RB takes a screen pass 80 yards after shaking and breaking five tackles. This can really pad a QB's YPA and rating. Excellent pass protection, exceptional WR play, strong running game, strong defensive play, weak competition. These can also play a huge role.
I don't think Romo has had the benefit of any of this. If anything, I think we can agree that the team has slightly underperformed for Romo in these areas and the competition has been at least decent.
Yet Romo has managed to post a 101.2 QB rating and a league best YPA of 8.78.
In additon to the strong numbers, Romo's given me plenty of visual evidence.

Can anyone name me a true flash in the pan? Some QB with a Romo type career start who quickly faded away.

 

[Hostile]

I'll admitt. 3.5 games is 3.5 games. No gettin around that. I also agree that durability is something that will only be established over time.
HOWEVER, I think we can all agree that Romo's start has been nothing short of remarkable. Numbers, especially with a small sampling can be skeewed. A RB takes a screen pass 80 yards after shaking and breaking five tackles. This can really pad a QB's YPA and rating. Excellent pass protection, exceptional WR play, strong running game, strong defensive play, weak competition. These can also play a huge role.
I don't think Romo has had the benefit of any of this. If anything, I think we can agree that the team has slightly underperformed for Romo in these areas and the competition has been at least decent.
Yet Romo has managed to post a 101.2 QB rating and a league best YPA of 8.78.
In additon to the strong numbers, Romo's given me plenty of visual evidence.

Can anyone name me a true flash in the pan? Some QB with a Romo type career start who quickly faded away.

Yes, I can name several.

Eric Hipple

Mark Rypien

Gus Frerotte

Shaun King

Charlie Batch

Chris Simms

Kordell Stewart


Just to name a few. All had impressive beginnings to their careers and then came back to earth or fell off it. This is just a few. There have been many others.

Note, I haven't downplayed how well Romo has played even one time in this thread and look how angry you are getting. All bold. All caps. Bigger font. Anything to scream me down, or get others to jump on board and join. That is exactly what I meant in an earlier post I responded to you.

 

[Hostile]

Right. THey're all elite in my book.

Paris has never done anything for me. Britney used to, but she's too far gone IMO. Jessica still seems like a nice lovable ditz.

 

[sonnyboy]

Yes, I can name several.

Eric Hipple

Mark Rypien

Gus Frerotte

Shaun King

Charlie Batch

Chris Simms

Kordell Stewart


Just to name a few. All had impressive beginnings to their careers and then came back to earth or fell off it. This is just a few. There have been many others.

Note, I haven't downplayed how well Romo has played even one time in this thread and look how angry you are getting. All bold. All caps. Bigger font. Anything to scream me down, or get others to jump on board and join. That is exactly what I meant in an earlier post I responded to you.

PSST I'll try to keep it down to a wisper. I'm not feeling angry or hostile, look who's calling the kettle black, Hostile. I'm never really mad at any Cowboy fan.

 

[cowboys19]

Yes, I can name several.

Eric Hipple

Mark Rypien

Gus Frerotte

Shaun King

Charlie Batch

Chris Simms

Kordell Stewart

None of them has had as good of a start than Romo. let me check each on of their stats. Ill show you why

 

[Doomsday]

Or is Tony Romo a better QB than Eli Manning?

I really think I like Romo about 100% better than Manning (Eli, that is).

I was thinking the same thing last night and this morning. Is Eli just going through some growing pains or is he just not that good? He has a ton of weapons around him a good, a running game and a solid Oline but he is struggling big time. He seems very inaccurate, looked like crap in the second half of last nights game and a few others Ive seen this year. Got me thinking who would I rather have right now Eli or Romo? Its a tough one but I think I would rather take my chances with Romo.

 

[sonnyboy]

None of them has had as good of a start than Romo. let me check each on of their stats. Ill show you why

I had the same thought, but far to lazy to check the stats.

 

[Hostile]

PSST I'll try to keep it down to a wisper. I'm not feeling angry or hostile, look who's calling the kettle black, Hostile. I'm never really mad at any Cowboy fan.

All I did was respond to the questions asked to me. I said people do not like my answers. Now you know why yourself. I don't gush just to make people happy.

 

[Hostile]

None of them has had as good of a start than Romo. let me check each on of their stats. Ill show you why

That wasn't what was asked and who cares what their stats were? They were flashes in the pan. Don't bother looking up their stats. You're wasting your time.

 

[Doomsday]

"Romo may have a lower ceiling and more upside."

No offence, but this makes nooooo sense.

Eli has more physical tools but if he just doesnt get it his upside will be a lot less then his celing. I think Eli has the bigger arm but Romo has the better feet and is probably a bit more intelligent so does big arm always mean bigger ceiling is the real question?

 

[Danny White]

None of them has had as good of a start than Romo. let me check each on of their stats. Ill show you why

How about Kurt Warner!

 

[chinch]

Note, I'm not calling him (Eli) flawless or a perfect QB. The potential for greatness is higher. That means the potential for disappointment is higher as well. I acknowledge that. That would mean downside.

His "potential for greatness" is higher ... why is this?

Is his IQ higher? does he process info faster? better vision? faster? stronger arm? more accurate? quicker recovery time? less injury prone? more coachable? teammates like him more? etc...

 

[superpunk]

Eli has more physical tools but if he just doesnt get it his upside will be a lot less then his celing. I think Eli has the bigger arm but Romo has the better feet and is probably a bit more intelligent so does big arm always mean bigger ceiling is the real question?

I present to you, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, Jeff George and Drew Bledsoe. The question at this point is - Eli Manning - this generation's Drew Bledsoe? I've never been impressed with anything he does. Flashes do not equal greatness, just unrealized potential. His heritage is nice, but meaningless. He has better physical skills than his brother and does much less with them.

 

[Hostile]

How about Kurt Warner!

I avoided naming him only because I thought people would gripe.

 

[wileedog]

How about Kurt Warner!

Kurt's decline started after he turned 30, and I believe had a lot to do with the pounding he took in St. Louis and later with the GIants. He didn't get sacked a lot in St. Louis, but he got hit an awful lot because in Martz's system you put 125 guys into the route and pray the QB finds one before he gets killed.

Although for the record, I generally agree that its way to early to declare Romo anything. For all we know Indy finds his fatal flaw on tape this week and puts out the blueprint for defeating Moxie.

At this point I like what I see from him and I think there is a better chance he will be a good QB than fall off the planet. Conversely, I'm not that impressed with Eli, and I think he will be an up and down QB for most of his career. We'll see how it plays out.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

His "potential for greatness" is higher ... why is this?

Is his IQ higher? does he process info faster? better vision? faster? stronger arm? more accurate? quicker recovery time? less injury prone? more coachable? teammates like him more? etc...

You can also look at the fact that Manning has been playing football all of his life.

I believe yesterday they said Romo started playing football in his Junior Year (and was a Safety until the QB got hurt), so that probably hurt his ability to get a Scholarship.

If Romo had been playing football since PeeWee League, had a dad to teach him the in and outs of the position, watching film when he was little and last but not least, change his last name to "Manning", he may have gone to a big school and viewed differently by folks that want a guy from a big college and correct "pedigree".

If you factor everything Romo brings to the table, measurables and imeasurables, I dont know that I could just come out and say "Eli has a higher upside and potential".

The guy is playing like a Savvy Veteran and if you look at the "Whole" package instead of the "Physical Tools", it is hard to come out and say definatively that Eli's upside is way higher.

Again, the "Babe Laufenberg" Trivia comes up. The GM of the Giants is on the phone with you and they want to do a straight up trade Romo for Eli, do you do it.

I dont...and I bet Jerry and Parcells would have some reservations as well.

- Mike G.

 

[cowboys19]

Eric Hipple: his first year starting

att:279
cmp:140
pct:50.2
yds:2358
avg:8.45
td:14
td%:5.0
int:15
int%5.4
sack:27
loss:208
qb Rating: 73.4




Mark Rypien:

att:208
cmp:114
pct:54.8
yds:1730
avg:8.32
td:18
td%:8.7
int:13
int%6.3
sack:14
loss:115
qb rating:85.2




Gus Frerotte:

att:100
cmp:46
pct:46.0
yds:600
avg:6.00
td:5
td%:5.0
int:5
int%:5.0
sack:3
loss:18
qb rating:61.2




Shaun King:

att:146
cmp:89
pct:61.0
yds:875
avg:5.99
td:7
td%:4.8
int:4
int%:2.7
sack:11
loss:78
qb rating:82.4




Charlie Batch:

att:303
cmp:173
pct:57.1
yds:2178
avg:7.19
td:11
td%:3.6
int:6
int%:2.0
sack:37
loss:222
qb rating:83.5




Chris Simms:

att:73
cmp:42
pct:57.5
yds:467
avg:6.40
td:1
td%:1.4
int:3
int%:4.1
sack:10
loss:75
qb rating:64.1




Kordell Stewart:

he only had 37 attempts his firts 2 years starting so i wont count those. Its not like he was lighting it up either, 1 td, 2 ints in those 37 attempts

1st year full time starting

att:440
cmp:236
pct:53.6
yds:3020
avg:6.86
td:21
td%:4.8
int:17
int%:3.9
sack:20
loss:152
qb rating:75.2














and Tony Romo?

att:128
cmp:84
pct:65.6
yds:1124
avg:8.78
td:8
td%:6.2
int:4
int%:3.1
sack:6
loss:37
qb rating:101.2

Now its clear to me Romo has outperformed all those guys you mentioned, when they got their shots to start