Recap: Anyone still think Dak was wrong to turning down Cowboys Deal

[Flamma]

First you proved that you don't know as much as you think you do when you said "many times 42m to keep and 42m to release etc except the 42m to keep also means he is playing that season for the 42m so it is not dead money.". Most people know that it's only counts as dead money if a player is released. Also I forgot to mention that there is a no trade clause so even if the chiefs could find someone willing to pay that kind of money for him the chiefs can't trade him. So the choices are pay him or release him. That means even if Mahomes is playing well but because of having to pay him and they lose other players because of that and are no longer able to get to the Super Bowl, they will have to decide on whether they want to continue to pay that money or go with a younger QB and save 40-50 mil. So the chiefs to start to get better players again may have to get rid of a good QB because of the ultra high cost for him. Once that 3rd day of the new league year is past they are on the hook. What team has stayed relevant for 12 years when one player is using up 20%-25% of their cap space?
.
.

I'm pretty sure this contract was designed with the expectation of the cap continuing to rise. The cap is roughly 200M for 2020. For the next two years his cap hit will not be significant. In 2022 its 31M and 2023 it will hit 42 million. So in 2023 it will be over 20% of today's cap. They're assuming the cap will be higher at that point. The only way he'll be a 20-25% cap hit is if the Salcap flatlines for 12 years.

 

[12+88=7]

So Daks All - Rookie 2016 award was based on comparison to other rookie QBs who started or based on every snap taken by a rookie QB in 2016...

See how stupid your opinion looks once extrapolated....

This is what I have tried to convey to you, along with multiple posters. In 2016 there were 15 QBs drafted. But only three had a shot at being selected top rookie QB. Goff, Wentz, and Prescott. So Prescott had to battle two other players for this honor. Very limited competition.

To be All Pro you have to battle 31 other starting QBs for this honor. Much larger field. Much harder to win.

Even if you think Prescott was the best QB in the entire NFL in 2016 it doesn't matter because he was not voted All Pro, 1st or 2nd team. That is a fact.

And before calling someone stupid, look in the mirror first.

 

[FVSTONE]

Dak will easily get $38 - $40 per year now at a minimum thanks to Mahomes' new 10 year/$503 million with $477 million in guarantees/$45 mil/year average new contract extension.

You "don't pay Dak" Daktractors are foolish for having pushed the tag and much lesser pay which Jerry obviously listened to. Who is laughing now? Not you. It's Dak because he now knows he is worth at a minimum around $40 mil/season which Jerry will have no choice but to pay Dak since the alternative will lead to years of average play + rebuilding for years to come + playing musical chairs at the QB position.

Another Cowboy's Forum "Well Known Member" making a ridiculous argument about what Dak should be making. Dak played like a 4th rd pick this past season. I'm starting to think Dak has a lot of agents trying to make their arguments pretending to be " Well Known Member" on this site. It appears too me that Well Known Members don't have a clue about how the NFL in played or how they pay their players. Dak's stats were like balloon payments on a car or house, they all came at the end of games that they were behind in.

 

[Hoofbite]

I don't know if Spotrac is right, but if the Mahomes deal is anything like what they are showing it's probably the best contract any team has ever signed. $337M is in the form of roster bonuses and after 3 years, KC is pretty much free of the contract. The idea that you could sign a guy to a $450M contract and only have $4M in dead money by cutting him after 3 years is absolutely insane.

The only way this contract works is if Pat Mahomes continues to be Pat Mahomes. If he falls off, he's going to leave so much money on the table he'll likely suffer a major depressive episode. How in the hell did his agent allow this contract to happen?

Hats off to KC and Mahommes. KC is willing to pay for production, and Mahomes is willing to say that he will produce. If he doesn't produce, he doesn't get paid. This is a GM's wet dream and a very respectable - albeit, a potentially less lucrative - position by a player. Pat has the confidence to bet on himself, and KC will reward him if he's right.

Honestly, I cannot believe this contract is possible for a player of his ability. Provided Spotrac is accurate, this is how high-dollar contracts should work. I would imagine the NFLPA is pissed about this one. Putting players on a play-for-pay basis goes entirely against the grain.

 

[Typhus]

Y'all don't understand basic economics....THE MARKET justifies Prescott being paid like a top QB. It's just how it is, none of us have to like it but its honestly got nothing to do with us except we care about this football club. All the bickering and back n forth on this forums hasn't and won't change a single thing about what happens to Dak.

Wrong, only if you have a willing payer.
July 15 will be here soon enough, but Dak can still be held on the tag next year as well.
Not saying he wont get payed, but it doesn't have to come from the Cowboys.

 

[Typhus]

why would the Cowboys have to pay $80 million the next 2 years if they sign Dak? Some people talk as if Dak is demanding that, but what evidence is there?

There is none.
3-4 months of speculation at this point.

 

[Flamma]

I don't know if Spotrac is right, but if the Mahomes deal is anything like what they are showing it's probably the best contract any team has ever signed. $337M is in the form of roster bonuses and after 3 years, KC is pretty much free of the contract. The idea that you could sign a guy to a $450M contract and only have $4M in dead money by cutting him after 3 years is absolutely insane.

The only way this contract works is if Pat Mahomes continues to be Pat Mahomes. If he falls off, he's going to leave so much money on the table he'll likely suffer a major depressive episode. How in the hell did his agent allow this contract to happen?

Hats off to KC and Mahommes. KC is willing to pay for production, and Mahomes is willing to say that he will produce. If he doesn't produce, he doesn't get paid. This is a GM's wet dream and a very respectable - albeit, a potentially less lucrative - position by a player. Pat has the confidence to bet on himself, and KC will reward him if he's right.

Honestly, I cannot believe this contract is possible for a player of his ability. Provided Spotrac is accurate, this is how high-dollar contracts should work. I would imagine the NFLPA is pissed about this one. Putting players on a play-for-pay basis goes entirely against the grain.

It's not really 4 million. It only says 4 million because other monies haven't been activated yet. Scroll down and read the contract details. At the end of each line it will show you the real dead cap hit.

 

[Northern_Cowboy]

It's a little more complicated than that. If they cut him in 2025 his dead cap is over 120 million. So they're obviously combining things here.

No its not your not reading the deal correctly. The deal only contains 63m in total guarantees and 141m in guarantees for injury

 

[America's Cowboy]

Another Cowboy's Forum "Well Known Member" making a ridiculous argument about what Dak should be making. Dak played like a 4th rd pick this past season. I'm starting to think Dak has a lot of agents trying to make their arguments pretending to be " Well Known Member" on this site. It appears too me that Well Known Members don't have a clue about how the NFL in played or how they pay their players. Dak's stats were like balloon payments on a car or house, they all came at the end of games that they were behind in.

Hi, Fred! How's Wilma?

 

[Flamma]

No its not your not reading the deal correctly. The deal only contains 63m in total guarantees and 141m in guarantees for injury

Oh, I took two lines from his contract details from Spotrac. Tell me what I am reading incorrectly.

• 2024 salary & roster bonus + workout bonus fully guarantee on the 3rd league day of 2022 ($113.3M of total dead cap)
• 2025 roster bonus + workout bonus fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2023 ($121.3M of total dead cap)

What does that mean at the end of these lines?

 

[Hoofbite]

It's not really 4 million. It only says 4 million because other monies haven't been activated yet. Scroll down and read the contract details. At the end of each line it will show you the real dead cap hit.

Good call. His bonuses are triggered 2 years in advance, which is kind of odd. I assumed 1-year in advance. Even still, so much of the money is not actually guaranteed that I think it's a steal.

 

[Flamma]

Good call. His bonuses are triggered 2 years in advance, which is kind of odd. I assumed 1-year in advance. Even still, so much of the money is not actually guaranteed that I think it's a steal.

Well sure. It's kind of a win/win for both sides. If Patrick continues to play well he'll make a fortune. And like you said, so much of the money isn't guaranteed, so that bodes well for the Chiefs just in case.

 

[Northern_Cowboy]

No its not your not reading the deal correctly

Oh, I took two lines from his contract details from Spotrac. Tell me what I am reading incorrectly.

• 2024 salary & roster bonus + workout bonus fully guarantee on the 3rd league day of 2022 ($113.3M of total dead cap)
• 2025 roster bonus + workout bonus fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2023 ($121.3M of total dead cap)

What does that mean at the end of these lines?

The money is not guaranteed right now, the only guaranteed money in his deal is what he makes in the next 3 years

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nfl...tract-details-money/2g3luh9viwvy13n84cbe2k564

"Though Mahomes' contract features $141.428 million in guarantees over 12 years, he was guaranteed only $63.082 million at signing.

That $63.082 million includes Mahomes' signing bonus, his base salary for the next three years and his 2021 and 2022 roster bonuses. Which means Mahomes' contract essentially will be a year-to-year deal starting in 2023."

Here is the spotrac breakdown
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/patrick-mahomes-21751/

nothing is guaranteed past the 1st 3 years unless he is on the roster for the 3rd day of each season, the notes aren't actual dead cap hits yet because those amount are not yet guaranteed

https://overthecap.com/player/patrick-mahomes/5594/

 

[Hennessy_King]

It was a bad move by Dak.

Cash is king and never more so than with this god awful pandemic. It's a bit crass but if Dak had signed in March, I pretty confident any investment advisor could turn that into far more than he'd make by holding off. If he waits until next year and signs in March for 40m a season a lot of opportunities created by Covid are gone. If he's smart he gets his money before July 15 and pushes as much into a signing bonus as possible.

While this is true no real investment advisor has their client dumps millions of dollars into the market all at once. Its more so about diversifying investment vehicles to create tax deferred revenue streams in the future which capital gains are not typically.

 

[John813]

So Daks All - Rookie 2016 award was based on comparison to other rookie QBs who started or based on every snap taken by a rookie QB in 2016...

See how stupid your opinion looks once extrapolated....

Yes, hence, being placed on the All rookie team at the QB spot.
He also won rookie of the year, meaning he was the best rookie player of his class according to the AP.

PFWA, the list you keep mentioning, had Elliott as rookie of the year.

 

[Qcard]

This is what I have tried to convey to you, along with multiple posters. In 2016 there were 15 QBs drafted. But only three had a shot at being selected top rookie QB. Goff, Wentz, and Prescott. So Prescott had to battle two other players for this honor. Very limited competition.

To be All Pro you have to battle 31 other starting QBs for this honor. Much larger field. Much harder to win.

Even if you think Prescott was the best QB in the entire NFL in 2016 it doesn't matter because he was not voted All Pro, 1st or 2nd team. That is a fact.

And before calling someone stupid, look in the mirror first.

The point you miss is that Dak as a rookie did not only play against rookies.

13-3 record and stats that elevated Dak to All Rookie was against NFL Pro Football players....is that so hard to understand. Also Dak's production and play was only rivaled by Brady and Matt in 2016.....therefore by simple common.sense deduction Dak played at an All Pro Level.

Just ask Tony Romo what kept him on the bench.....Hierarchy!!! Meaning Dak had climbed so high up the rank in QB stature that even Jerry's love, Garrettism and HOF players like Witten could not bench Dak

I call stupid....stupid

 

[McKDaddy]

Dak's stats were like balloon payments on a car or house,

don't think i've ever heard anyone make the "balloon payment" sports stats analogy before. Nice!!!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yes, it is a serious post.

What clarification do you need?

I agree you are frequently amiss when it comes to Dak

The entire post.

 

[OmerV]

If thats true, it wont be in Dallas.....UNLESS HE TAKES 5 YEARS.

The reality for us is that we just dont have the CAP to pay him $38 -$40m in years 2021-2023 without seriously damaging the TEAM.

He'll be in Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Cleveland or Carolina.

You and I don't know what Cap room we will have in 2021-2023, so why even say this?

 

[DenCWBY]

I still believe you play him on the tag and if he plays like Mahomes, you pay him like Mahomes. Dak hasn't had one year as good as 2018 or 2019 by Mahomes, and came his closest as a rookie. See if he can elevate himself to that level and pay him accordingly.

And I'm not saying that to be critical of Prescott. I just would like to see what he can do under a real coach before figuring out if he's closer to Wentz/Goff level or Wilson/Mahomes level.

And before anyone says he's already on Wilson/Mahomes level, Wilson had a 106.3 rating last year and 110.9 the year before and Mahomes had 105.3 and 113.8. Dak's last two years were 99.7 and 96.9. His best is 104.9.

This!! He's not (YET) demonstrated consistent playmaking ability on the level of Mahomes, Wilson and several other elite NFL QB's. He has all the tools around him this year (baring major injuries) including a coach. Give him this year to prove himself as capable to the level of these other top QB's and if he's successful, show him the $$.