Recap: Anyone still think Dak was wrong to turning down Cowboys Deal

[gimmesix]

The money is not guaranteed right now, the only guaranteed money in his deal is what he makes in the next 3 years

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nfl...tract-details-money/2g3luh9viwvy13n84cbe2k564

"Though Mahomes' contract features $141.428 million in guarantees over 12 years, he was guaranteed only $63.082 million at signing.

That $63.082 million includes Mahomes' signing bonus, his base salary for the next three years and his 2021 and 2022 roster bonuses. Which means Mahomes' contract essentially will be a year-to-year deal starting in 2023."

Here is the spotrac breakdown
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/patrick-mahomes-21751/

nothing is guaranteed past the 1st 3 years unless he is on the roster for the 3rd day of each season, the notes aren't actual dead cap hits yet because those amount are not yet guaranteed

https://overthecap.com/player/patrick-mahomes/5594/

Doesn't really work that way, though. His 2023 salary, roster bonus and workout bonus becomes guaranteed on the third league day of 2021. Then, the 2024 salary, roster bonus and workout bonus become guaranteed by the third league day of 2022.

Cut him in 2021 before the 2023 activation and $48 million hits your cap (compared to $21.7 million for that season) because of the rest of that $63 million that's fully guaranteed. Cut him in 2022 before the 2024 activation and $61.8 million hits the cap (instead of $27.4 million) because 2023 is fully guaranteed. And that continues on until 2027. Cut him in 2024 and you pay everything for that year plus the 2025 roster and workout bonuses, which were fully guaranteed in 2023. Cut him in 2025 and you pay everything for that year because it was all guaranteed in 2023 and 2024.

In 2026, you can cut him but his roster bonus was guaranteed in 2025, so you would only save his salary (2.5 million) and roster bonus ($550,000).

In 2027, though, his salary goes up to $10 million and it and the workout bonus are not guaranteed until the third day of that year. So, while you would still take a hit for his roster bonus ($49.4 million), which was guaranteed in 2026, you'd still save $10.5 million in cap space.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

I think he's being another DeMarco Murray. He's making smart money decisions and bad football decisions.

 

[Frozen700]

Dak bet on himself and won. The intelligent fans, those who know he can lead this team to the Super Bowl, also won as we’ve been watching the Dak haters squirm and in the process show their ignorance. It’s been a great thing all around.

The way you turn a blind eye to everything and just ride for Dak while saying ridiculous things, I can tell you do the same with whoever your life partner is.

That man must be happy as hell.

I can give you that at least. You ride or die, even though you say some cringe worthy stuff.

#DontpayDak

 

[Qcard]

The entire post.

Oh I see.

You must have missed the last 3 months of discussions in which Dak was called every name but Prescott for turning down the Cowboys 5 year deal ($$ parameters unknown).

Then again, feigning ignorance on the thread would be in line with your past assessment of Dak contract situation.

So to be clear , do you think Dak in hindsight was wrong for turning down the Cowboys offer?

Of course, with caveat that NFL players always pursue the most guaranteed $$ because of the nature of the sport....

 

[Typhus]

This!! He's not (YET) demonstrated consistent playmaking ability on the level of Mahomes, Wilson and several other elite NFL QB's. He has all the tools around him this year (baring major injuries) including a coach. Give him this year to prove himself as capable to the level of these other top QB's and if he's successful, show him the $$.

Agree with you as far as hope and prayer, but in a realistic vacuum, Dak will never play on the level of Mahomes, and Mahomes will only get better, he hasn't even begun to hit his peak, and why KC broke the bank, what team wouldnnt.
We would have.
Dak is on the tag for a reason.

 

[CowboyoWales]

You and I don't know what Cap room we will have in 2021-2023, so why even say this?

Because you hide behind this statement but if you look at the history of the increases you'll see that in the 10 years the increase has been under $15m each year and over $11m on only 3 occasions.

The OVER THE CAP calculations that i'm work to predict:

2021 - 17m increase
2022 - 15m
2023 - 14m

May not be exact, but it's not too far off.

 

[Typhus]

Doesn't really work that way, though. His 2023 salary, roster bonus and workout bonus becomes guaranteed on the third league day of 2021. Then, the 2024 salary, roster bonus and workout bonus become guaranteed by the third league day of 2022.

Cut him in 2021 before the 2023 activation and $48 million hits your cap (compared to $21.7 million for that season) because of the rest of that $63 million that's fully guaranteed. Cut him in 2022 before the 2024 activation and $61.8 million hits the cap (instead of $27.4 million) because 2023 is fully guaranteed. And that continues on until 2027. Cut him in 2024 and you pay everything for that year plus the 2025 roster and workout bonuses, which were fully guaranteed in 2023. Cut him in 2025 and you pay everything for that year because it was all guaranteed in 2023 and 2024.

In 2026, you can cut him but his roster bonus was guaranteed in 2025, so you would only save his salary (2.5 million) and roster bonus ($550,000).

In 2027, though, his salary goes up to $10 million and it and the workout bonus are not guaranteed until the third day of that year. So, while you would still take a hit for his roster bonus ($49.4 million), which was guaranteed in 2026, you'd still save $10.5 million in cap space.

KC isn't worried about the money, so why the reference to possibly cut Mahomes in future years to save on cap.
That's really absurd, Mahomes will more than likely win KC several SBs regardless of other roster defencencies due to his cap, but it really wont be an issue.
You pay "extraordinary" talent if you are so fortunate to have it.
That's what is so upsetting to Cowboys nation and those in favor of just paying Dak, its false hope,, as Cowboys fans we expect to be first in line when it comes to hitting on
elite talent like Mahomes, that is not reality.
Fans can think what they want about Jerry and this FO, but they are definitely not delusional on this situation.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Oh I see.

You must have missed the last 3 months of discussions in which Dak was called every name but Prescott for turning down the Cowboys 5 year deal ($$ parameters unknown).

Then again, feigning ignorance on the thread would be in line with your past assessment of Dak contract situation.

So to be clear , do you think Dak in hindsight was wrong for turning down the Cowboys offer?

Of course, with caveat that NFL players always pursue the most guaranteed $$ because of the nature of the sport....

Sure, that must be it. I just missed it.

OK, I see, I didn't miss read your post. It's agenda driven and a waste of time.

I'm out.

 

[CouchCoach]

No, he wasn't wrong because he's making a decision for himself. Just like Laveon Bell did when everyone here said he was wrong. Why? Because you would have made a different decision for yourself? None of us knows what was going on with PIT except what they were paying the QB and WR.

Does what they've paid other players on the Cowboys not affect Prescott's thinking as the QB of the team? Does he think he's not as good at his position as the DE, RB and WR?

It is unknown where and how far the QB salaries are going to go but the shorter deals are better for the player. New TV/right to carry deals around the corner, gambling's effect has yet to be seen so the climb in the cap is speculation but it is a climb so why get locked into a deal when you have the self-confidence that Prescott has in himself?

We can argue how misplaced that might be but not that it's not there. Just stop and think about what this players has been through in high school, college and the NFL and the confidence his Mom instilled in him of his worth as a player. This is a man that has bet on himself his entire football career, that when his opportunity arose he would be ready. He might not have been good enough to take it but he would be good enough not to give it up. How many QB's in the NFL have the background that Prescott has? How many were 4th rounders and the 3rd choice of the team that took him? He was a long shot to even make the team and look at him now.

And while I am on that confidence part of it, do you think Prescott doesn't see himself as every bit as valuable to his team as there top tier QB's? His passing gets over diagnosed here, that is part of the job. Leading the team is job 1 to a lot of these young men. Confidence, work ethic and dedication are just as important as a pretty spiral to QB's that are more than just an arm.

 

[CouchCoach]

KC isn't worried about the money, so why the reference to possibly cut Mahomes in future years to save on cap.
That's really absurd, Mahomes will more than likely win KC several SBs regardless of other roster decencies due to his cap, but it really wont be an issue.
You pay "extraordinary" talent if you are so fortunate to have it.
That's what is so upsetting to Cowboys nation and those in favor of just paying Dak, its false hope,, as Cowboys fans we expect to be first in line when it comes to hitting on
elite talent like Mahomes, that is not reality.
Fans can think what they want about Jerry and this FO, but they are definitely not delusional on this situation.

I think they are a lot more cognizant about their luck at the QB position than most realize. Prescott's value isn't just him; it is also the options other than him.

 

[Typhus]

I think they are a lot more cognizant about their luck at the QB position than most realize. Prescott's value isn't just him; it is also the options other than him.

Very true, and actually its the Cowboys that have a bit of leverage, its either accept the "term", or play on the tag, which is basically a "term" that benefits the Cowboys more.
Dak bet on himself and came up a bit short, and Dallas has come to the table more than likely with a team friendly contract, that obviously wasn't acceptable to Daks team.
Its a stalemate at this point, and honestly it would be a huge mistake for Dallas to sign Dak now, just take the tag and the true win for the Cowboys is the time, the "term" to find a solution at QB that is a winning solution for both sides.
The time is the key.

 

[Qcard]

Sure, that must be it. I just missed it.

OK, I see, I didn't miss read your post. It's agenda driven and a waste of time.

I'm out.

Yes... Posts and Threads are usually agenda driven..but I guess just not your flava

Bye Felicia

 

[OmerV]

Because you hide behind this statement but if you look at the history of the increases you'll see that in the 10 years the increase has been under $15m each year and over $11m on only 3 occasions.

The OVER THE CAP calculations that i'm work to predict:

2021 - 17m increase
2022 - 15m
2023 - 14m

May not be exact, but it's not too far off.

How do you know it's not too far off? You admitted yourself that it is your prediction.

Besides, where the salary cap sits at a point in time is only part of the equation. The other part is where a team sits with it's cap commitments, which you cannot know about years in advance. There is a lot of maneuvering that can and will take place.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yes... Posts and Threads are usually agenda driven..but I guess just not your flava

Bye Felicia

Well, all of yours seem to be. I don't go into the whole 14 year old rhetoric but if it makes you feel better to do so, feel free.

 

[CowboyoWales]

How do you know it's not too far off? You admitted yourself that it is your prediction.

Besides, where the salary cap sits at a point in time is only part of the equation. The other part is where a team sits with it's cap commitments, which you cannot know about years in advance. There is a lot of maneuvering that can and will take place.

...... just keep that head firmly stuck in the sand..... the prediction of a $17m increase in CAP for 2021 is now quite optimistic.

The next couple of years commitments leave us in similarly poor positions.... to overcome it we'll have to restructure the already damaging contracts of Coop, DLaw and Zeke.

So if there's no issue with the CAP Space between now and 2024....... WHY havent we signed Dak??

 

[OmerV]

...... just keep that head firmly stuck in the sand..... the prediction of a $17m increase in CAP for 2021 is now quite optimistic.

The next couple of years commitments leave us in similarly poor positions.... to overcome it we'll have to restructure the already damaging contracts of Coop, DLaw and Zeke.

So if there's no issue with the CAP Space between now and 2024....... WHY havent we signed Dak??

Maybe it is optimistic, maybe not. As we know things can change quickly.

And, as for our current commitments, they can change too. Players can be cut or traded or contracts can be restructured. For that matter, Dak could restructure. A lot of QBs do after they get high dollar contracts. You simply don't know all the facts because a lot is based on info that is not yet known.

 

[MyFairLady]

Dak is to Mahommes as Vince Carter is to Jordon. I am starting to wish that we had Jordon.

 

[CowboyoWales]

What's the change a counter virus that increases stadia capacity and tv audiences?

Argh another Well-Known Member.

 

[fivetwos]

Doesn't really work that way, though. His 2023 salary, roster bonus and workout bonus becomes guaranteed on the third league day of 2021. Then, the 2024 salary, roster bonus and workout bonus become guaranteed by the third league day of 2022.

Cut him in 2021 before the 2023 activation and $48 million hits your cap (compared to $21.7 million for that season) because of the rest of that $63 million that's fully guaranteed. Cut him in 2022 before the 2024 activation and $61.8 million hits the cap (instead of $27.4 million) because 2023 is fully guaranteed. And that continues on until 2027. Cut him in 2024 and you pay everything for that year plus the 2025 roster and workout bonuses, which were fully guaranteed in 2023. Cut him in 2025 and you pay everything for that year because it was all guaranteed in 2023 and 2024.

In 2026, you can cut him but his roster bonus was guaranteed in 2025, so you would only save his salary (2.5 million) and roster bonus ($550,000).

In 2027, though, his salary goes up to $10 million and it and the workout bonus are not guaranteed until the third day of that year. So, while you would still take a hit for his roster bonus ($49.4 million), which was guaranteed in 2026, you'd still save $10.5 million in cap space.

Well explained and thank you.

The Elliott contract is similar in structure, in the sense that a certain seasons money becomes guaranteed well before the season prior to THAT one is even played, so they would need to cut him at a point where they have already guaranteed the upcoming season to prevent the following one from being guaranteed.

It all but makes it guaranteed since I wouldnt think teams are up for paying large money to guys to not be there at all.

Neither player could possibly be that bad, so it's essentially guaranteed.

All about structure and outs, not years and total money.

I think Mahomes would have to win the SB and the league MVP in all ten years to get the full 503.

Edit...the final two bogus years of Elliotts deal arent like that. They are there for fluff and effect.

Its basically a 4 year fully guaranteed deal.

 

[OmerV]

Dak is to Mahommes as Vince Carter is to Jordon. I am starting to wish that we had Jordon.

Starting to wish? Hell, who wouldn't want Jordan? The point is that Jordan's don't grow on trees, so teams have to try and find the next best they can.