AP: Irvin says Vick needs sanctuary of football

[Tass]

"I'm not condoning what he might have done, but to take the game from him, at this stage, I think people don't understand how it breaks him."



And we are supposed to care? I hope it DOES break him. Nobody should get away with doing what he did.

 

[DallasEast]

*first time* has to be more than that. then will the winner will need more cigs to help hold vick down.

doggy style has a whole new meaning for vick now.

if vick goes to jail we may have to write him and ask him to settle an "over/under" bet on how many cartons he went for the 1st time.

i'd say pretty close to 20 but i'm not up on prison values as i should be so i'm just guessing.

The term 'doggie style' is very funny and very appalling at the same time.

Why is it that whenever I think of Vick and his problems, the lyrics for George Clinton's Atomic Dog keep floating in my head???

 

[5Stars]

Actually I think they were talking about Irvin there.

By the way, Irvin said nothing wrong there. Empathy for a guy who has football taken away from him while he has not been proven guilty yet.

Michael has nothing to be ashamed of there!

You guys are in such a rush to pass judgement that you are forgetting that you are the ones in the wrong at this point in our American judicial process!

"I hurt for him," Irvin said. "I empathize with him because I hear people saying he should take the year off, to forget about football and focus on his legal troubles. But football is what got him through everything – everything! It got him out of where he grew up, out of the hood, out of the ghetto. Football has always been the sanctuary."


Skipped Reading Comprehension class, huh?

 

[Vintage]

Some of you are so set on nailing Vick and anyone who remotely says anything short of nailing Vick.

What Irvin is saying, is football was a means of escape for Vick. Rather than living on the streets, running in gangs, etc, football was an escape which led him to live a more comfortable, less dangerous life than one he grew up in.

What Irvin is also trying to convey is that he understands what Vick is going thru. He understands what football means to someone, especially when they are going thru trials and tribulations. Yes, Vick put himself in this situation, but that does NOT mean he is void of feeling anything either. Irvin is not questioning the stupidity of Vick's alleged actions.

He is just saying, as someone who grew up in a rough neighborhood and used football as a means of escape.....and as someone who would commit mistakes later in life, football offered the same escape, that he understands how hard it is for Vick.

Some of you are ready to lynch anyone who says anything regarding Vick that doesn't condemn him to hell(if there is such a thing). Emmitt, Irvin, Deion.....Vick....

 

[03EBZ06]

What Emmitt, Deion, and Portis said was stupid but I understand what Irvin is saying. I don't have any issues when some one supports Vick but I think it's stupid when some one blames others, government, or race to deflect what Vick is charges with.

 

[Stautner]

Hmmm. Not sure I agree with that.

And I'm not going to debate which is worse and for what reasons. I'm just saying that I'm not convinced the court of public opinion looks far more favorably on Irvin's misdeeds than Vicks.

Look at i this way - did Irvin's actions spur protests against the NFL the way Vick's alleged actions have?

Also, look at any number of celebrities who have gone to rehab for drug addiction and even been arrested and convicted on drug charges yet they came out to a lucrative career ....... do you think they would have come out as unscathed had it been a dog fighting ring they were involved with where dogs were hung and drowned and forced to fight to the death?

Even with prostitution - Hugh Grant and Charlie Sheen havn't missed a beat.

I'm not saying those things are right, but I am saying that they are not considered cruel, mean spirited crimes ..... and in the abscence of an accident that hurts someone they are considered victimless crimes.

People can easily go on the record supporting crimes like Irvin's by saying that they support him and hope he gets the help he needs - that's kind of a standad mantra that no one thinks twice about.

But to go on the record as supporting a guy that is responsible (alledgedly) for killing and torturing animals is different - no one wants the fallout from that.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

No. That's incorrect. The worst thing that can happen to Michael Vick right now is for the feds to have a solid case against him. If that's true, in the grand scheme of things, his pro football career will be the least of his concerns. The federal pen ain't no joke.

I have to agree with you on this subj........

 

[aikemirv]

"I hurt for him," Irvin said. "I empathize with him because I hear people saying he should take the year off, to forget about football and focus on his legal troubles. But football is what got him through everything – everything! It got him out of where he grew up, out of the hood, out of the ghetto. Football has always been the sanctuary."


Skipped Reading Comprehension class, huh?

I still think he is talking about himself. Not a reading comp thing, I think throughout the article he is comparing his situation to Vicks.

 

[5Stars]

I still think he is talking about himself. Not a reading comp thing, I think throughout the article he is comparing his situation to Vicks.

"I hurt for him," Irvin said. "I empathize with him because I hear people saying he should take the year off, to forget about football and focus on his legal troubles. But football is what got him through everything – everything! It got him out of where he grew up, out of the hood, out of the ghetto. Football has always been the sanctuary."

But football is what got him
But football is what got him
But football is what got him
But football is what got him
But football is what got him
But football is what got him


Damn!

 

[03EBZ06]

I still think he is talking about himself. Not a reading comp thing, I think throughout the article he is comparing his situation to Vicks.

No, Irvin is talking about Vick.

 

[aikemirv]

No, Irvin is talking about Vick.

Does Irvin know Vick personally, know what he has gone through in his life?

 

[Tass]

What Irvin is saying, is football was a means of escape for Vick. Rather than living on the streets, running in gangs, etc, football was an escape which led him to live a more comfortable, less dangerous life than one he grew up in.

What Irvin is also trying to convey is that he understands what Vick is going thru. He understands what football means to someone, especially when they are going thru trials and tribulations. Yes, Vick put himself in this situation, but that does NOT mean he is void of feeling anything either.

Looks like Vick didn't truly 'escape' the macho thuggery from whence he came. He brought it with him. You can take the boy out of the ghetto but you can't take the ghetto out of the boy. You can give Elvis $100m and he still sticks a big stuffed camel in his billiard room.

Vick is not void of feeling, eh? Well, neither were those dogs. He didn't care about them...I bet he even clowned on the dogs that didn't make the cut. So screw him. I hope he never plays another down.

 

[03EBZ06]

Does Irvin know Vick personally, know what he has gone through in his life?

Who knows but that never stopped Irvin from giving an opinion on just about anything.

 

[aikemirv]

"I hurt for him," Irvin said. "I empathize with him because I hear people saying he should take the year off, to forget about football and focus on his legal troubles. But football is what got him through everything – everything! It got him out of where he grew up, out of the hood, out of the ghetto. Football has always been the sanctuary."

Irvin said football was his refuge even during his trial.

"It was my escape even in my own head," he said. "I would count down the hours, not to go home but to go to the football field. I got up there and exhausted myself until I couldn't think about what I was going through."

This all sounds interconnected to me. I am probably wrong but unless Irvin knows Vick Personally, I don't know how he could say that about him.

 

[iceberg]

Some of you are so set on nailing Vick and anyone who remotely says anything short of nailing Vick.

What Irvin is saying, is football was a means of escape for Vick. Rather than living on the streets, running in gangs, etc, football was an escape which led him to live a more comfortable, less dangerous life than one he grew up in.

What Irvin is also trying to convey is that he understands what Vick is going thru. He understands what football means to someone, especially when they are going thru trials and tribulations. Yes, Vick put himself in this situation, but that does NOT mean he is void of feeling anything either. Irvin is not questioning the stupidity of Vick's alleged actions.

He is just saying, as someone who grew up in a rough neighborhood and used football as a means of escape.....and as someone who would commit mistakes later in life, football offered the same escape, that he understands how hard it is for Vick.

Some of you are ready to lynch anyone who says anything regarding Vick that doesn't condemn him to hell(if there is such a thing). Emmitt, Irvin, Deion.....Vick....

great - but what escape did those dogs have? what did he take from them with:

shooting them
making them fight
electrocuting them
slamming them to the ground till dead
drowining them

vick committed (as it would seem) some serious and major crimes and i'm sorry but the "poor poor me" doesn't sit well with me right now in what *he* loses.

don't do the crime if you can't pay the time.

if you don't want to lose your freedoms, don't do things that are commonly known to take them away.

no pity - sorry.

 

[CoCo]

Look at i this way - did Irvin's actions spur protests against the NFL the way Vick's alleged actions have?

Also, look at any number of celebrities who have gone to rehab for drug addiction and even been arrested and convicted on drug charges yet they came out to a lucrative career ....... do you think they would have come out as unscathed had it been a dog fighting ring they were involved with where dogs were hung and drowned and forced to fight to the death?

Even with prostitution - Hugh Grant and Charlie Sheen havn't missed a beat.

I'm not saying those things are right, but I am saying that they are not considered cruel, mean spirited crimes ..... and in the abscence of an accident that hurts someone they are considered victimless crimes.

People can easily go on the record supporting crimes like Irvin's by saying that they support him and hope he gets the help he needs - that's kind of a standad mantra that no one thinks twice about.

But to go on the record as supporting a guy that is responsible (alledgedly) for killing and torturing animals is different - no one wants the fallout from that.

And who are the other celebrities we can present who were involved in dog-fighting? I don't know of any which is one reason I'm not signing up to your original conclusion.

As I said earlier, I'm not going to claim the contrary is true, I just don't think there is sufficient evidence to make the claim you have.

 

[Stautner]

And who are the other celebrities we can present who were involved in dog-fighting? I don't know of any which is one reason I'm not signing up to your original conclusion.

As I said earlier, I'm not going to claim the contrary is true, I just don't think there is sufficient evidence to make the claim you have.

Hell, it only took one dog fighting charge to draw more public outcry than all the celebrity drug charges combined .......... what does that tell you?

Considering that the one celebrity dog fighting conviction drew exactly one more mass, nationwide outcry than all the celebrity drug convictions combined, I would say that the evidence pretty clearly shows that the public is much more outraged with the dogfighting charge.

Also, considering that EVERY person who even comes out and supports Vick - even aside from any comment on the actual crime - draws another public outcry, whereas nobody even blinks when someone says they support a person convicted of drug charges, then again, the evidence is, again, pretty heavy that the public is more outraged by the dogfighting charge.


Come on, be realistic - Michael Irvin is a HOFer now. There was a delay, but he made it. Do you really think he would have had he been convicted of the things Vick is accused of?

 

[CoCo]

Hell, it only took one dog fighting charge to draw more public outcry than all the celebrity drug charges combined .......... what does that tell you?

Considering that the one celebrity dog fighting conviction drew exactly one more mass, nationwide outcry than all the celebrity drug convictions combined, I would say that the evidence pretty clearly shows that the public is much more outraged with the dogfighting charge.

Also, considering that EVERY person who even comes out and supports Vick - even aside from any comment on the actual crime - draws another public outcry, whereas nobody even blinks when someone says they support a person convicted of drug charges, then again, the evidence is, again, pretty heavy that the public is more outraged by the dogfighting charge.


Come on, be realistic - Michael Irvin is a HOFer now. There was a delay, but he made it. Do you really think he would have had he been convicted of the things Vick is accused of?

I probably haven't made my point very clearly.

By itself, single incident versus single incident, I'm not sure the public is significantly more outraged by an organized dog fight (and I mean that narrowly) than calculated sexual indescretion. The problem here is that the accusations around Vick are much broader, deeper and more extreme than Irvin's, by comparison, single incident.

I think you're right that the specific allegations vs Vick are viewed more negatively than those against Irvin. I'm just uncomfortable using those two cases to compare the two offenses because I think Vick's alleged overall body of work seems to be much broader & deeper than Irvin's in his indescretion. I think it makes the comparisons deceiving.

I think one could also pick sexual indescretion cases more heinous than a less extreme dog-fight case and get a different measure of public outcry as a result.

People can and will support Vick in more approrpiate ways than what Emmitt & Deion stumbled around trying to do. Wade I think already has done so. I think the outrage magnitude is also multiplied by the fact that Vick, at present, is still evading it all. Irvin, by comparison, has largely come clean and repented. There is a lot of forgiveness that flows once repentance happens.

Maybe that helps explain my position a bit better. Honestly its tough to do.

 

[Jimz31]

I also hate it when people keep saying that it's the "..people that surround these players that causes them to get into trouble...". Have they ever thought that it JUST MIGHT BE the players themselves that are the causes as well as the ring-leaders in these things?

 

[THUMPER]

It's great how this gets portrayed by ex-athletes as though Vick is entitled to football. IMO, very telling. It tends to verify the concept that athletes are somewhat coddled, and when the comfort zone is removed, things are not so pretty. Reality is a ***** after all.

Us middle-class types don't have that imagined comfort zone of fame and money. That's where the dividing line is, and perhaps some of the frustration that causes these fan incidents that sometimes crop up.

Some things never change, Michael Irvin still doesn't get it. Never has and in all likelihood, never will. :bang2: