Apologies to CrazyCowboy accepted... thanks

[Yeagermeister]

I hope you hold the same standard for Marino

Like I said in a different post....IMO to be considered the best COWBOYS qb of all time you have to deliver more championships than Staubach and Aikman. So far Romo hasn't won a playoff game. So let's not get carried away.

As for Marino I do consider him one of the greatest NFL qb's of all time.

See the difference? I hold our qb's to a greater level....but hey that's just me and I'm spoiled.

 

[1fisher]

Well anyone saying a player isn't great unless they win a championship is sorta... not thinking.

Ted Willams and Ernie Banks were both great players.

You can find guys like that in every sport who truly were great but for one reason or another didn't get a ring.

I agree with you MW... but in the end players are most always judged based on championships. It isn't fair but that's the way it is.

Got to have some skins on the wall!

 

[rcaldw]

I may set off a riot here (probably not on this forum), but I don't consider Marino to be in Aikman's class. I watched both of those guys from the beginning of their careers to the end. Marino had a quick release and threw the ball well, but he also made big mistakes at crucial times and didn't win as consistently as Aikman did. Same with Favre, and I will say that to my dieing breath. There is a reason why Favre set the interception record the week after he set the TD record.

One of these days people will understand that football is not baseball. It is not a sport where individual stats (alone) tell the story. Marino was a great player (won't get any argument from me on that one), but he was also a selfish player. There is no way that he would have ever gone for an offense where he wasn't throwing the ball much more than they were running the ball. It was precisely because he WANTED HIS NUMBERS that his teams would have never succeeded to the degree that Aikman's did. Anyone who ever talks about Aikman's greatness talks about his unselfishness and that he put his personal numbers second to the success of the team.

In addition I would add that every era of football produces different numbers, stats wise, because of rules, the ebb and flow of what defenses do, and the particular offensive emphasis during any given decade. I take these numbers I'm seeing (even guys like Derek Anderson putting up big numbers), and I put them in the context of the era of football we are watching right now.

I don't just look at numbers, I look at players, and at the QB position you also look at leadership.

So, while it doesn't take a Super Bowl win to validate a player, it is also unwise to think that championships don't say something about the PLAYERS who played the skill positions on those teams. ESPECIALLY when you talk about multiple championships.

So, Romo has come much farther than I ever thought he would, and I enjoy watching him each Sunday, but no way do I put him in Staubach's or Aikman's class at this point.

Enjoy this for what it is. We are the best team in the NFC, we have one of the best QB's in football who came out of nowhere to do it, and we have a great chance for a Super Bowl appearance this year.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I agree with you MW... but in the end players are most always judged based on championships. It isn't fair but that's the way it is.

Got to have some skins on the wall!

That's not necessarily true. Some fans judge players that way, but many do not.

Again, to say a player like Dan Marino or Ted Williams wasn't great is stoopid.

 

[dallasfaniac]

Lets just look at some of the rule changes over the last 10 years or so.

1995
The quarterback could have the speaker in his helmet to receive the plays. Before that you had to send it in with signals or player substitutions.

1996
Helmet to helmet hits by the defender is now a personal foul. Rule instituted to protect the QB.

1998
Defensive players may not flinch before the snap, causing offensive linemen to move.

2001
Protecting the passer will be emphasized more.

2002
Illegal to hit the QB helmet to helmet after change of possession.

2005
Peel Back Blocks are now illegal.

2006
Defenders are prohibited from hitting a passer in the knee or below unless they are blocked into him.


These are just a tiny list of rule changes that have been instituted to help offenses while hindering defenses. How would Romo's stats be in a league where it is legal to give a player a Night Train Necktie?

 

[Doomsday]

That's not necessarily true. Some fans judge players that way, but many do not.

Again, to say a player like Dan Marino or Ted Williams wasn't great is stoopid.

I agree, but saying a player who has been great for one year is better then HOFs is also stoopid.

 

[bbgun]

Apology not extended. You know, it is possible to appreciate Tony and the ride he's taking us on and still keep a sense of perspective. Just sayin'.

 

[tyke1doe]

Romo looks to be the real deal, and perhaps in time, he may be their equal or better, but right now you've got 5 SB Rings vs. None.

Let's just wait and see if Romo can bring home the hardware.

Agreed. If Danny White had one one or two Super Bowls, he would be up there with the Staubachs and the Aikmans. But he didn't even get to one as a starter.

So as "great" as Romo seems to be, if he doesn't get any Super Bowl wins, he won't ever be placed on par with Staubach and Aikman. He would have to have a Dan Marino-like career.

The RING is the thing that defines Great Quarterbacks.

 

[amuze]

I posted ROMO is potentially the BEST QB the Cowboys ever had to include Roger and Troy--only a hand full of Zoners agreed with me.

We are 8-1 because of ROMO!

Which of you ZONERS are ready to apologize?

I still LOVE those of you ZONERS who still REFUSE to jump on the ROMO express!

LMAO, how about a Super Bowl or two before you crown him as King Cowboy? It's like saying Ben Roethlisberger was the best Steeler QB of all time because he went 13-1 or whatever it was in that SB year. For someone who posts so much, you could at least come up with some decent content.

 

[Doomsday101]

Agreed. If Danny White had one one or two Super Bowls, he would be up there with the Staubachs and the Aikmans. But he didn't even get to one as a starter.

So as "great" as Romo seems to be, if he doesn't get any Super Bowl wins, he won't ever be placed on par with Staubach and Aikman. He would have to have a Dan Marino-like career.

The RING is the thing that defines Great Quarterbacks.

Rings though are team achivements which is why every member of the team gets one. I think there are some very good QB's HOF QB's who don't have rings but at least in my mind were great QB. Guys like Tarkenton,Fouts and Marino just to name a few who had great careers and made it to the Hall but never played on teams with enough talent to win it all.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Which of you ZONERS are ready to apologize?

Not me. Not after only 19 starts.

 

[1fisher]

That's not necessarily true. Some fans judge players that way, but many do not.
Again, to say a player like Dan Marino or Ted Williams wasn't great is stoopid.

.......and that's why I said most always...

You play games for championships!

 

[Doomsday101]

.......and that's why I said most always...

You play games for championships!

But you win them as a team. No one man will ever win a championship no matter how great he is at least when it comes to team sports.

 

[tunahelper]

Lets discuss greatness when a trophy is added!

 

[Undisputed]

It's not that he is necessarily "worse" than them. But he hasn't done anything to prove that he is better. So the comparison is really pointless. I'm sure Troy and Roger would tell you that he has just as much talent as they did. But the comparison of greatness is pretty much pointless at this point in Romo's career.

 

[Doomsday101]

It's not that he is necessarily "worse" than them. But he hasn't done anything to prove that he is better. So the comparison is really pointless. I'm sure Troy and Roger would tell you that he has just as much talent as they did. But the comparison of greatness is pretty much pointless at this point in Romo's career.

I agree. I think the main thing is Troy and Roger played great football over a period of time. This is Romo 1st full season and for me I would rather sit back and enjoy it now than worry about where he will rank in the future with these 2 greats. The ride is over before you know it, just enjoy it while it last.

 

[1fisher]

But you win them as a team. No one man will ever win a championship no matter how great he is at least when it comes to team sports.

I understand that completely.

I've read many threads on this and many other boards and when things get heated the response I hear most often is how many rings does he have or how many rings does your team have...... It's all about the Lombardi.... (unfortunately)

 

[D-TownRadio]

Are you serious? like i said i love romo but hes not Aikman yet!!

How many rings does Aikman have?? thanks

First and foremost Tony doesn't end up with a concusion every other game. And he most likely will not because he is more elusive. Romo doesn't have a sure handed stud that Troy had in Irvin or an elite back like Smith.
Secondly I said he has been better in his first two years then any QB we have ever had. This is one of the best seasons we have ever had.
The most wins we have ever had was 13 in 92 we already have 8 this year with seven games to play including the likes of washington twic the eagles, jets and carolina. Detroit and Greenbay are the only teams that look to be formitable opponents but the clock will strike 12 for the pack soon and we will get revenge for last year on detroit. At the least we will have 13 wins this year. And this is Romo's first season as a starter. It took Troy 4 years as a starter to put up those kinda numbers.
In my mind Romo is better at this point of his career then Troy was and Romo is destined for better things. Lets not forget that there was not cap back then so Troy had a much more talented roster.

 

[dallasfaniac]

Lets not forget that there was not cap back then so Troy had a much more talented roster.

Lets also not forget that there were 28 teams to split the talent across instead of 32 so everyone had a little more talent. That's 212 extra players for todays watered down teams. Lets also not forget that the rules have changed to give offenses a big upperhand. Troy got all those concussions because helmet to helmet hadn't been ruled out yet and defenses weren't penalized for sneezing on the WR. Back then bumping a WR 20 yards downfield wasn't called, as a matter of fact Irvin made his living off allowing the CB to blanket him and then just push off at the last second.

 

[Undisputed]

But guys don't forget that the Ozone layer was quite a bit thicker back then, so the radiation beaming into Romo's eyes is a bit more intense than the well uhm....aiight...nevermind.