CFZ Are we undervaluing the defense?

[CouchCoach]

I think the single most critical piece that they didn't let get away was Quinn.

Think about what he walked into. He's a failed HC coming in for a one year DC that was an abject failure on a team that was the most lopsided from the offense to the defense in the league.

These players didn't know him, all they knew was here was another failed HC but he had been associated with the Legion of Boom, so at least they might listen.

The definition of a coach is one who puts his players in their best possible situation to be successful. He did that, he gave them pride, not embarrassment. He had the DROY and leading picker on the same defense. I don't know that any other DC does that, he allowed Diggs to take the risks and he used Parsons like a defensive Swiss Army knife. Might have been out of necessity but does that matter? He did it.

What Quinn can do in his 2nd full season after choosing to come back to this team, these players, is the most intriguing part of the season. They know he chose them and could have had a HC job. I think he has the kind of relationship with his players that they do not want to let him down, they love playing for him and they believe in him. Because he proved to them he is that definition of a coach. And belief is the most powerful force in human nature.

 

[xwalker]

I know they lost some offensive starters which seems to be the major concern, primarily at LG, RT and WR. And that is basically an unknown at this time.

Then Gregory walked but just how important was he to the defense and overall team?

Do we spend so much time addressing what we don't like that we don't spend enough time looking for the things we do or can like?

Offense has some questions but it ranked 1st and couldn't muster over 17 in the playoff game but only gave up 23 on defense.

So, what if the offense falls off but stays in the top 10? And what if the defense becomes what really steps up? Because that is exactly what happened to this franchise in the early 90's. And what resulted was balance.

I think this defense needs a little more looking into before we start giving up the East to the Eagles and predicting another one playoff game bow out.

Dan Quinn proved himself last season because he got creative with the talent he had when he really didn't know what he had. No one predicted Diggs and Parsons and when was the last time the Cowboys had 2 players in the top 10 defensive players?

It wasn't just Parsons and his freakish athletic talent, it was Quinn exploiting that talent and turning him into a defensive weapon and overnight NFL sensation. Think he's going to regress this season? I'll take all bets against that and Diggs has proven himself to be the first ball hawk since Sanders for the Cowboys.

I really think the lack of movement on name FA's this off season has shaded things too much and caused some to really drain that half empty glass.

One thing that keeps coming back to me about this defense. Dan Quinn was the hottest HC candidate out there and linked with 5 different openings and he elected to take himself off the market and remain the DC here. We can discuss his HC resume but his DC one is exemplary and he knows a good D when he sees one and I think that is why he came back. I think he believes he has something special in the making.

Before you get all down about the offense, keep in mind it's a complete team and no Cowboys team in history ever accomplished anything without a standout defense.

"What do we mean?"

 

[CouchCoach]

"What do we mean?"

?

 

[Typhus]

As others have mentioned, the young DL need to be progressing and not staying current or worse regressing.
If the big young boys inside havent progressed than I dont even see a late vet cut being of much value.

 

[Aven8]

Well it’s going to be fun to watch. Lots of youth. I’m still concerned about LB though. Even though Parsons is amazing, I worry about the depth. LVE is just an average NFL LB too.

 

[Sydla]

Maybe it IS just middling, but if it’s better than 2021, and the pass rush is better than 2021, then the defense overall WILL be better, so my point remains. While we’re all just speculating, I will continue to lean positive.

Not if the turnover numbers drop significantly. I don't think people realize how big turnovers were for this defense last year. It covered up a lot of warts. If turnovers drop by a substantial amount, they haven't done enough along the DL to compensate for that IMO. Now maybe we continue to generate a ridiculous number of turnovers and this is all moot. But the reality is this is a middling talented defense that if they don't get turnovers, they are going to have trouble stopping good offenses consistently.

They desperately need a playmaker inside (and frankly outside considering their best DE is actually their starting LB). Maybe Gallimore can develop into that guy with a full camp and being healthy? Hopefully. I have zero belief in Hill at this point. Odi can be a good DT but he's not likely going to be a game wrecker inside.

 

[ESisback]

Not if the turnover numbers drop significantly. I don't think people realize how big turnovers were for this defense last year. It covered up a lot of warts. If turnovers drop by a substantial amount, they haven't done enough along the DL to compensate for that IMO. Now maybe we continue to generate a ridiculous number of turnovers and this is all moot. But the reality is this is a middling talented defense that if they don't get turnovers, they are going to have trouble stopping good offenses consistently.

They desperately need a playmaker inside (and frankly outside considering their best DE is actually their starting LB). Maybe Gallimore can develop into that guy with a full camp and being healthy? Hopefully. I have zero belief in Hill at this point. Odi can be a good DT but he's not likely going to be a game wrecker inside.

My opinion remains unchanged.

 

[kskboys]

I think the single most critical piece that they didn't let get away was Quinn.

Think about what he walked into. He's a failed HC coming in for a one year DC that was an abject failure on a team that was the most lopsided from the offense to the defense in the league.

These players didn't know him, all they knew was here was another failed HC but he had been associated with the Legion of Boom, so at least they might listen.

The definition of a coach is one who puts his players in their best possible situation to be successful. He did that, he gave them pride, not embarrassment. He had the DROY and leading picker on the same defense. I don't know that any other DC does that, he allowed Diggs to take the risks and he used Parsons like a defensive Swiss Army knife. Might have been out of necessity but does that matter? He did it.

What Quinn can do in his 2nd full season after choosing to come back to this team, these players, is the most intriguing part of the season. They know he chose them and could have had a HC job. I think he has the kind of relationship with his players that they do not want to let him down, they love playing for him and they believe in him. Because he proved to them he is that definition of a coach. And belief is the most powerful force in human nature.

And now add in that he appears to have changed our D draft philosophy. Very tough players such as Osa and Ridgeway and Golston were not the type we had taken previously. Those are the types that can make us hard to run against, a.d that's what it takes to win playoff games. Are they talented enough? That is to be seen.

 

[kskboys]

Not if the turnover numbers drop significantly. I don't think people realize how big turnovers were for this defense last year. It covered up a lot of warts. If turnovers drop by a substantial amount, they haven't done enough along the DL to compensate for that IMO. Now maybe we continue to generate a ridiculous number of turnovers and this is all moot. But the reality is this is a middling talented defense that if they don't get turnovers, they are going to have trouble stopping good offenses consistently.

They desperately need a playmaker inside (and frankly outside considering their best DE is actually their starting LB). Maybe Gallimore can develop into that guy with a full camp and being healthy? Hopefully. I have zero belief in Hill at this point. Odi can be a good DT but he's not likely going to be a game wrecker inside.

We were exposed badly vs SF.

 

[kskboys]

As others have mentioned, the young DL need to be progressing and not staying current or worse regressing.
If the big young boys inside havent progressed than I dont even see a late vet cut being of much value.

Yeah, we need talent up front on D, not traffic cones and speed bumps.

 

[ESisback]

Yeah, we need talent up front on D, not traffic cones and speed bumps.

I wouldn’t call Gallimore or OSA traffic cones or speed bumps. I think they’ll both take big steps. I also like Ridgeway and Golston.

I see a lower number of INTs, but a higher number of sacks and a better per game average against the run.

 

[Bullflop]

Consider me innocent of undervaluing the defense in 2022, although, I'd like nothing better than to see a guy like Anthony Barr being added to the LB corps. He'd be an excellent addition to a unit that could do well to have him as depth that Dan Quinn might use to advantage. A capable DT with prior experience could also be handy to have available as a starter, or as a backup to a youngster.

All in all, I'd be mistaken to dismiss the upcoming 2022 version of our defense to be one that's incapable of being an upgrade to that of last year. I think the pass rush and the run coverage will both be an upgrade over those areas of 2021. How much that might be so may be anyone's guess.

 

[xwalker]

I think the single most critical piece that they didn't let get away was Quinn.

Think about what he walked into. He's a failed HC coming in for a one year DC that was an abject failure on a team that was the most lopsided from the offense to the defense in the league.

These players didn't know him, all they knew was here was another failed HC but he had been associated with the Legion of Boom, so at least they might listen.

The definition of a coach is one who puts his players in their best possible situation to be successful. He did that, he gave them pride, not embarrassment. He had the DROY and leading picker on the same defense. I don't know that any other DC does that, he allowed Diggs to take the risks and he used Parsons like a defensive Swiss Army knife. Might have been out of necessity but does that matter? He did it.

What Quinn can do in his 2nd full season after choosing to come back to this team, these players, is the most intriguing part of the season. They know he chose them and could have had a HC job. I think he has the kind of relationship with his players that they do not want to let him down, they love playing for him and they believe in him. Because he proved to them he is that definition of a coach. And belief is the most powerful force in human nature.

If was an NFL coach, I would prefer being a coordinator over being a head coach 'if' I could work with a head coach that I liked.

 

[jazzcat22]

Do we spend so much time addressing what we don't like that we don't spend enough time looking for the things we do or can like?

YES.
Many do.

 

[xwalker]

We were exposed badly vs SF.

That was more about young players than lack of physical talent.

The 49ers have a unique running scheme.
- Shanahan's father and his OL coach Alex Gibbs were the 1st to go 'all in' implementing the zone blocking scheme in the NFL.
- Kyle Shanahan has morphed that into one of the only zone blocking scheme that utilizes a FB as an integral part of the game plan.
- The run fits and angles are different and it just throws off the timing for defensive players.
- They managed to block Parsons on run plays better than any team in 2021.

Most fans seem to want draft picks to become instant starters.

My feeling is somewhat opposite with regards to this defense.
- I want to see the core group gain experience together.
- Now that the players and coaches have seen this group vs that type of scheme, they can correct the mistakes.
- That's easier if the number of new starters is limited from year to year.

 

[CouchCoach]

Not if the turnover numbers drop significantly. I don't think people realize how big turnovers were for this defense last year. It covered up a lot of warts. If turnovers drop by a substantial amount, they haven't done enough along the DL to compensate for that IMO. Now maybe we continue to generate a ridiculous number of turnovers and this is all moot. But the reality is this is a middling talented defense that if they don't get turnovers, they are going to have trouble stopping good offenses consistently.

They desperately need a playmaker inside (and frankly outside considering their best DE is actually their starting LB). Maybe Gallimore can develop into that guy with a full camp and being healthy? Hopefully. I have zero belief in Hill at this point. Odi can be a good DT but he's not likely going to be a game wrecker inside.

That worked for both Indy and NO in their SB wins. An opportunistic D is a real luxury but cannot always be counted on.

 

[jazzcat22]

If the Cowboys are ever going to turn the corner the defense is going to have to become an elite unit that shows up in the big games in Dec/Jan. We haven’t had a defense like that since the early/mid 90s.

Exactly.
I had told a friend of mine for years this same thing. They defense is not feared. They are usually a big let down in the 4th quarter.

His theory was ...you need to out shoot them....
So he was saying the heck with defense, just have a powerful offense that scores all the time. I tried to explain to him it doesn't always work that way.
He was looking at the Patriots and Brady outscoring all the weak AFCN teams as well as the weak AFC teams.

I think he finally know this now. As he never really go into football until the late 90's as to all the dynamics of it.

 

[JayFord]

fans undervalue everything....we have a good defense thats only going to get better barring injury

 

[TequilaCowboy]

fans undervalue everything....we have a good defense thats only going to get better barring injury

Agree with you there....like i said before, the offense is the one i am more concerned with. Not just because of their inconsistent play, but i don't have much trust on the coaching on that side of the ball, from the OL coach to the OC... weak part of the team. Should of gotten rid of both...... You'all Hold onto your panty hose, it is just my opinion.

 

[KJJ]

fans undervalue everything....we have a good defense thats only going to get better barring injury

As we found out in several games this past season and in the playoffs the defense isn’t good enough. We can only hope it gets better.