ARTICLE: Former Cowboy Mel Renfro has advice for S Roy Williams

[dcowboysfan76]

They put him at LB not because he has coverage issues, but because he covers better than LBs do plus he can still get after the QB if desired.

Wade ran right by Charles Woodson for 40 yards, but Roy was able to cut in front trying to get the interception and still tip the ball away. Adrian Peterson is no slouch when catching the ball, averaging 17 yards a catch, yet against Roy did not have a completion. Peterson runs a 4.37, yet Roy shut him down.

Name anyone on the Cowboys better at covering than Roy, of course leaving out any FS and CB.

No need, I've already stated he's our best option....not to mention even if we did, it wouldn't make since to bench Roy when we are giving him so much $$$

 

[dcowboysfan76]

What???? How the heck can you say a guy is average ..... but do not compare him to the other guys who play his position?

What is wrong with you? How old are you?

Did Roy deserve to go to the Pro Bowl last year? What is wrong with you? And what does age have to do with anything? Did you escape from an asylum?

 

[AdamJT13]

Did Roy deserve to go to the Pro Bowl last year?

Absolutely. There were no other NFC strong safeties who deserved to go and weren't already there.

 

[Hostile]

What did it blow out the water? Please elaborate? If anything you supported my point with the Giants, because on two plays Roy was in position to make two plays and prevent TD's......roll the film and look at them since you are the board librarian....

Basically everything you guys have been posting. You guys maintained you know automatically deep balls will be completed. He showed where not only are very few of them completed, even fewer are on Roy.

 

[jwitten82]

I think Roy had the most takeaways by a safety, so if that doesnt get you to the pro bowl I dont know what will.

Did Roy deserve to go to the Pro Bowl last year? What is wrong with you? And what does age have to do with anything? Did you escape from an asylum?

​

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Absolutely. There were no other NFC strong safeties who deserved to go and weren't already there.

Ok.......One thing I do like about Roy is his durability......I don't think he's missed any games in his career. I like the fact that he can disrupt the run, however it's critical that he covers better. Until he improves that facet of his game, teams will continue to game plan on passing against him, or getting him in situations he can't handle.....

 

[zrinkill]

Did Roy deserve to go to the Pro Bowl last year?

yes ..... name another Strong Safety in the NFC thats better?

So what you are saying is you want Roy to be better than anyone at 6 different positions skill sets?

You want Roy to cover like a corner.
Run like a free safety.
Hit like a strong safety.
Tackle like a Linebacker.
Stuff the run like a defensive tackle
and Rush the QB like a defensive end.

Sorry kid ..... but that guy does not and has never existed in the NFL.

 

[Manster68]

Hey Adam, dcowboysfan76, and others,

Thank you for entertaining me greatly during the Bye week.

It was neat to see dcowboysfan76 get sent to the lions. Hopefully he prayed first.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Basically everything you guys have been posting. You guys maintained you know automatically deep balls will be completed. He showed where not only are very few of them completed, even fewer are on Roy.

I never said automatically HOS......I never said balls would automatically be completed....

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Hey Adam, dcowboysfan76, and others,

Thank you for entertaining me greatly during the Bye week.

It was neat to see dcowboysfan76 get sent to the lions. Hopefully he prayed first.

LOL, I guess I had to be initiated to this board.........I love this board though!! It's the best! I've never posted this much in two days.........

 

[dcowboysfan76]

yes ..... name another Strong Safety in the NFC thats better?

So what you are saying is you want Roy to be better than anyone at 6 different positions skill sets?

You want Roy to cover like a corner.
Run like a free safety.
Hit like a strong safety.
Tackle like a Linebacker.
Stuff the run like a defensive tackle
and Rush the QB like a defensive end.

Sorry kid ..... but that guy does not and has never existed in the NFL.

Nope I want him to cover better than what he has in the past.....although he has been better this year!

 

[zrinkill]

Nope I want him to cover better than what he has in the past.....although he has been better this year!

Then move him back to free safety like he played his first 2 years ..... because he covers very good from the Strong Safety position.

No one complained about his coverage skills while he was playing FS .....

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Then move him back to free safety like he played his first 2 years ..... because he covers very good from the Strong Safety position.

No one complained about his coverage skills while he was playing FS .....

IMO Roy suffered after Woodson retired........He lost his mentor, and coach on the field....we've been playing musical chairs with the position since!! I like the fact of us moving Roy closer to the line (kind of like the rover pos. in coll. football)........Like I said he has been better this year, however he's showed signs of "Lost Roy" as well......

 

[zrinkill]

IMO Roy suffered after Woodson retired........He lost his mentor, and coach on the field....we've been playing musical chairs with the position since!! I like the fact of us moving Roy closer to the line (kind of like the rover pos. in coll. football)........Like I said he has been better this year, however he's showed signs of "Lost Roy" as well......

There is no arguing that ..... the whole team suffered.

 

[Hostile]

I never said automatically HOS......I never said balls would automatically be completed....

You most certainly did.

Here's jdub's post, bolded for emphasis...

What troubles me about Roy is that whenever a QB begins to throw deep, you already know the pass will be completed, you know that Roy will be back there in coverage, and you know that Roy will be pointing fingers at the end of the play. At some point, he has to realize that he is (or at least a part of) the problem. I honestly think that Roy does not take his own conditioning and training seriously. You would think that someone with this type of criticism would at some point try to correct his own problems. IF he were to get serious and attack his agility and foot work problems, there is no doubt that he would be one of the top safeties in the league. What he needs to do is shed about 10-15 pounds, work on his agility, his footwork, backpedaling, tracking the ball in the air, wrapping up on tackles, and how to rotate his pointed finger on blown coverage assignments 180 degrees...

To which you directly replied with the following...

Excellent points my friend!!

That is your comment on that, word for word. I did not misquote you. You didn't separate any part of his "points" out as something you disagree with.

Then Adam posted the exact instances of deep passes attempted, and completed this season, including coverage assignments.

Automatically became 7 out of 20. 35% is automatic? Not in my book. Then it showed even fewer for Roy. To me, that is a poor theory destroyed.

As I have said repeatedly, Roy has strengths and he has weaknesses. None of us "Roy Supporters" are denying he isn't the best coverage guy out there. But we have maintained that you guys are blowing it out of proportion and are overdoing it. You say "no one has said Roy sucks." Are you kididng me? You want me to get every game thread or Roy thread and pull the quotes? We see it every time a thread happens about him.

I ask you point blank once again, one simple question I have asked all of you guys but you all avoid like the plague. Was Bruce Smith a bust because teams ran right at him? A simple yes or no will suffice. No matter what you answer, your theory is hung out to dry.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

You most certainly did.

Here's jdub's post, bolded for emphasis...

To which you directly replied with the following...

That is your comment on that, word for word. I did not misquote you. You didn't separate any part of his "points" out as somethign you disagree with.

Then Adam posted the exact instances of deep passes attempted, and completed this season, including coverage assignments.

Automatically became 7 out of 20. 35% is automatic? Not in my book. Then it showed even fewer for Roy. To me, that is a poor theory destroyed.

As I have said repeatedly, Roy has strengths and he has weaknesses. None of us "Roy Supporters" are denying he isn't the best coverage guy out there. But we have maintained that you guys are blowing it out of proportion and are overdoing it. You say "no one has said Roy sucks." Are you kididng me? You want me to get every game thread or Roy thread and pull the quotes? We see it every time a thread happens about him.

I ask you point blank once again, one simple question I have asked all of you guys but you all avoid like the plague. Was Bruce Smith a bust because teams ran right at him? A simple yes or no will suffice. No matter what you answer, your theory is hung out to dry.

You are right I should've separated myself from that portion...( I really didn't agree with that)......it's over zealousness, I was trying to reply to so many of you.....Also I never said Roy sucked, you guys deducted that yourself....I only stated he needed to improve some things (mentioned by Renfro) which is why I constantly said I like Roy........Now in regards to Bruce Smith, I wouldn't say he's a bust and also I never really followed him so my rationale towards that question is a "push".....I think that Smith may have played longer than he should've, it's legacy became kind of tarnished when he went to the Skins...So if you are trying to be psychological in your assessment and attempt to point out his achievements and the remarks from skeptics (in comparison to the skeptics remarks on Roy), it won't work with me.....

 

[dallasfaniac]

None of us "Roy Supporters" are denying he isn't the best coverage guy out there.

I would like to qualify this with 'compared to all other positions.'

Of course Roy isn't the best coverage guy when compared to cornerbacks and free safeties, but when you compare him to strong safeties Roy may have an argument.

 

[AdamJT13]

Then Adam posted the exact instances of deep passes attempted, and completed this season, including coverage assignments.

I just posted the official play-by-play. Sometimes they mentioned the coverage, sometimes not. I know who was in coverage on them, though. I just wanted him to figure it out for himself.

Automatically became 7 out of 20. 35% is automatic?

It's actually 7-of-29 -- 24 percent.

 

[Hostile]

You are right I should've separated myself from that portion...( I really didn't agree with that)......it's over zealousness, I was trying to reply to so many of you.....Also I never said Roy sucked, you guys deducted that yourself....I only stated he needed to improve some things (mentioned by Renfro) which is why I constantly said I like Roy........Now in regards to Bruce Smith, I wouldn't say he's a bust and also I never really followed him so my rationale towards that question is a "push".....I think that Smith may have played longer than he should've, it's legacy became kind of tarnished when he went to the Skins...So if you are trying to be psychological in your assessment and attempt to point out his achievements and the remarks from skeptics (in comparison to the skeptics remarks on Roy), it won't work with me.....

No, I am talking about in his heyday. Teams ran at him all the time and gained decent yardage on the Bills.

Was Bruce Smith therefore a bust? By the rationale heretofore in this thread he was.

What about Deion Sanders? The book on him was to throw to someone or run the ball in the zoen underneath his coverage and make him have to tackle. Teams did it with some success. Was he therefore a bust?

If you cannot legitimately call those guys busts then your arguments for why teams attack Roy deep hold no water. They do it because that is the book on him. It does not make him a bust or a bad player.

I hate the Pro Bowl, but this guy goes every year and 2/3 of the votes needed to send him are players and coaches. They obviously don't think he's a bust. Why do some of you think that? It is beyond me.

Mel Renfro brought up a way to help Roy work on his weakest point. I don't disagree with him one iota. I'd love to see someone really figure out how to fix this in Roy. Mel Renfro did not however say "Roy's a bust." You'd never know he didn't say that from the harping about it.

Darren Woodson (quoted in this thead) praised Roy to know end. Hushed right over. Ignore Darren Woodson, but by all means look what Mel said. The only problem is it's a distortion of what he said. Read the initial post. he did not say the guy is a bad football player by any wild stretch.

Like I said, read every game thread this season and read these threads closer. You may not be saying "Roy sucks," but others damn sure are and they have no idea what they are talking about and Adam keeps blowing it out of the water.

Hells bells man, 3 of us who played college football described coverage schemes in depth a week or so ago and no one paid the least bit of attention. Parcells praising Roy or removing liability from him is a lie, but he criticizes him in one comment and it's gospel truth. Wade Phillips lies about him and covers for him.

You don't think these things aren't just a little bit hypocritical? Seriously?

Come on.

 

[Hostile]

I just posted the official play-by-play. Sometimes they mentioned the coverage, sometimes not. I know who was in coverage on them, though. I just wanted him to figure it out for himself.



It's actually 7-of-29 -- 24 percent.

My bad.

Hopefully people will realize 24% isn't even as "automatic" as 35%.