ARTICLE: Former Cowboy Mel Renfro has advice for S Roy Williams

[WoodysGirl]

This thread makes my head hurt...

http://img.***BLOCKED***/albums/v628/cowboyszone/thread_stuff/Image8.jpg

 

[dcowboysfan76]

This thread makes my head hurt...

http://img.***BLOCKED***/albums/v628/cowboyszone/thread_stuff/Image8.jpg

LOL at your pic...........I will admit WG that I'm kind of arrogant, and competitive......All I want is the best for my team and I want to be proud of their achievements.....It's all about opinions and beliefs.....I have never posted this much in one thread ever, and that goes all the way back to the old ESPN Boards....However it's kind of fun to see what people's thoughts are and how they come up with their reasonings....I look forward to the rest of this season, and I'm hoping for improvement from Roy..........

 

[dallasfaniac]

You act like you don't remember Roy allowing plays against the Skins and Hawks...What more concrete evidence do you need?

When both Wade and Parcells can comment that many times what looks like Roy's fault is not necessarily Roys fault, then how can we say for sure? How is that concrete?

You point to passes allowed as proof. Show me one player EVER that did not allow a single pass. One player. I demonstrated that Roy prevented Bobby Wade from catching a pass and yet the great Charles Woodson who gets paid to COVER gave up a 40 yard pass to him.

You have yet to provide any proof whatsoever other than 'you watch the games', yet you have shown that you don't know what a SS responsibilities are with regards to covering the deep pass and looking into the backfield to watch for the run (which includes the QB). And yet you can corretly determine whether Roy is doing a good job without even knowing what the SS job is?

You point to these analysts on CBS, NFLN, ESPN, etc. as fact. How accurate is their take when they don't know the playbooks and 'analysts' like Emmitt Smith get half the players names wrong? Emmitt, what the heck IS an escape goat anyway?

 

[zrinkill]

Wow I feel like I am in the "Twilight Zone"....you guys don't believe that Roy Williams is average.....

Not for his position ..... no.

Compared to the other Strong Safeties in the league he is very good in coverage.

Compared to Free Safeties in the league he is average in coverage.

Compared to Cornerbacks in the league he is Poor at coverage.

Compared to Deion Sanders he is horrible in coverage.

But that is like saying Ware is an average LB because he is not as good in coverage as the average Corner.

Stupid.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

When both Wade and Parcells can comment that many times what looks like Roy's fault is not necessarily Roys fault, then how can we say for sure? How is that concrete?

You point to passes allowed as proof. Show me one player EVER that did not allow a single pass. One player. I demonstrated that Roy prevented Bobby Wade from catching a pass and yet the great Charles Woodson who gets paid to COVER gave up a 40 yard pass to him.

You have yet to provide any proof whatsoever other than 'you watch the games', yet you have shown that you don't know what a SS responsibilities are with regards to covering the deep pass and looking into the backfield to watch for the run (which includes the QB). And yet you can corretly determine whether Roy is doing a good job without even knowing what the SS job is?
I know what the responsibilities of a SS is...he lines up on the strong side and is responsible for the TE and run....by Roy being one tracked he gets caught up by looking in the backfield anticipating the run and gets beat by being out of position....what's so hard to understand? I've provide proof of him not being able to consistently cover TE's and the deep ball....Roy barely defended the pass to Wade, and you know it........Charles Woodson is overrated just like Roy, so that wasn't a good contrast......Also we know it isn't always Roy's fault, because he is very quick to put his teammates on blast by saying it wasn't......

You point to these analysts on CBS, NFLN, ESPN, etc. as fact. How accurate is their take when they don't know the playbooks and 'analysts' like Emmitt Smith get half the players names wrong? Emmitt, what the heck IS an escape goat anyway?

One of the analysts was his ex-coach....I would expect him to know his weakness versus someone on a message board.....

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Not for his position ..... no.

Compared to the other Strong Safeties in the league he is very good in coverage.
I wouldn't say he is very good
Compared to Free Safeties in the league he is average in coverage.
agree
Compared to Cornerbacks in the league he is Poor at coverage.
agree
Compared to Deion Sanders he is horrible in coverage.
lol
But that is like saying Ware is an average LB because he is not as good in coverage as the average Corner.
no merit

 

[zrinkill]

Not for his position ..... no.

Compared to the other Strong Safeties in the league he is very good in coverage.
I wouldn't say he is very good
Compared to Free Safeties in the league he is average in coverage.
agree
Compared to Cornerbacks in the league he is Poor at coverage.
agree
Compared to Deion Sanders he is horrible in coverage.
lol
But that is like saying Ware is an average LB because he is not as good in coverage as the average Corner.
no merit

Thats has a lot of merit ..... You are judging Roy on what Free safeties do on the field .... which is not his position.

 

[dallasfaniac]

One of the analysts was his ex-coach....I would expect him to know his weakness versus someone on a message board.....

Provide me a link or an article.

I have already provided an article where Parcells said Roy is not the problem, that the other teams stay away from him and that the few plays he does give up happen because of the nature of the position.

I can also provide a link to a recent Wade Phillips press conference where he says that the media doesn't know what they are seeing when they try to break down a play.

I can provide you with CONCRETE evidence and yet you bring me something you saw on TV. You have demonstrated your difficulties comprehending football and I am supposed to take you at your word when comprehending a person of Parcell's ilk who tends to talk in circles?

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Provide me a link or an article.

I have already provided an article where Parcells said Roy is not the problem, that the other teams stay away from him and that the few plays he does give up happen because of the nature of the position.

I can also provide a link to a recent Wade Phillips press conference where he says that the media doesn't know what they are seeing when they try to break down a play.

I can provide you with CONCRETE evidence and yet you bring me something you saw on TV. You have demonstrated your difficulties comprehending football and I am supposed to take you at your word when comprehending a person of Parcell's ilk who tends to talk in circles?

Where have I demonstrated the inability of comprehending football, because I accidentally typed centerfield versus rightfield? It was a typo? What makes you the expert? You are talking about Wade and I am talking about Parcells....Like I said earlier.......Why do you think Wade is trying to use Roy as a Lb in some packages? To play him by his strengths right? I'm like Woody's Girl, this thread is making my head hurt.....You guys want to pretend to be blind, but the next time Roy does what he does best, I will bring it to your attention.....exit

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Thats has a lot of merit ..... You are judging Roy on what Free safeties do on the field .... which is not his position.

I'm judging Roy on plays that are his responsibility.........exit

 

[adamknite]

I'm judging Roy on plays that are his responsibility.........exit

But you're judging poorly.......exit

 

[zrinkill]

I'm judging Roy on plays that are his responsibility.........exit

Yes against Burress and Moss ....... How could a strong safety like Roy ever let those guys beat him. I mean they are only the 2 best scoring receivers in the league at this time ..... a strong safety should be able to shut them down.

Boink! or Exit! or whatever silly thing you are doing to hide your ignorance on this subject.

 

[tomson75]

Hey! Did you guys see that TD saving pass deflection Roy had last week? Boy, he sure got smoked on that one.

 

[dallasfaniac]

Where have I demonstrated the inability of comprehending football, because I accidentally typed centerfield versus rightfield? It was a typo?

Strong Safeties generally cover the strong side which is the side the TE is lined up on, hence 'strong', not just the right side of the field. The only time we did that was when we had Woodson and neither were FS or SS, but left safety and right safety.

What makes you the expert? You are talking about Wade and I am talking about Parcells....Like I said earlier.......

I already posted an article quoting Parcells word for word, do you discount that too?

Why do you think Wade is trying to use Roy as a Lb in some packages? To play him by his strengths right?

Because in those packages they bring in a FS in the SS spot because a FS covers deep passes better than SS. They leave Roy in there because not only is he force near the line, but he can also cover better than a LB. On those downs, they put their best pass coverage players in the game.

I'm like Woody's Girl, this thread is making my head hurt.....You guys want to pretend to be blind, but the next time Roy does what he does best, I will bring it to your attention.....exit

Because I don't see things the way you do I am blind? I and others have provided concrete evidence disproving some of your statements and we are the ones that cannot see? Are you sure you can see your way out of this thread?

 

[AdamJT13]

Roy's positioning with the horse collar tackle.....See any of the following:

The play against Calico
The play against Musa Smith

Neither of those were because he took a "bad angle" (and yes, I just pulled out the tapes and watched both plays). The play against Calico was a reverse. Roy came from the middle of the field and tackled Calico at the sideline after a 5-yard gain. And the play against Smith was a third-and-1 run behind the right tackle (the defense's left side). Roy was the safety on the defense's right side, which means he had to go to his left to make the tackle, and he came at Smith directly from the side, not from behind.

 

[AdamJT13]

What troubles me about Roy is that whenever a QB begins to throw deep, you already know the pass will be completed, you know that Roy will be back there in coverage, and you know that Roy will be pointing fingers at the end of the play.

Oh, really? Below is a list of all 29 deep passes (20 yards or more downfield) attempted against us this season -- seven completions, 20 incompletions and two interceptions.

On how many of these plays did you "already know the pass will be completed"?

On how many of these plays was "Roy back there in coverage"?

And on how many of these plays was "Roy pointing fingers at the end of the play"?

I think you'll be shocked at the answers.




NEW YORK GIANTS

First Quarter

1-10-NYG 40 (13:42) 10-E.Manning pass deep middle to 17-P.Burress for 60 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Deep middle post pattern.(36 yards downfield)

2-3-DAL 35 (4:09) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep left to 81-A.Toomer. (35 yards downfield)

Second Quarter

1-10-NYG 25 (3:53) 10-E.Manning pass deep middle to 17-P.Burress to DAL 48 for 27 yards (42-A.Henry). (26 yards downfield)

1-10-DAL 26 14) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 12-S.Smith. Pass caught out of bounds right corner of the end zone. (26 yards downfield)

Third Quarter

3-8-DAL 30 (5:58) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 17-P.Burress (35-J.Reeves). Reeves broke up the pass 5 yards deep right corner of the end zone. Ware heavy pressure on the quarterback. (30 yards downfield)

1-10-NYG 19 (4:10) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 80-J.Shockey. Pass incomplete at the New York 39; Spencer closest defender. (20 yards downfield)

Fourth Quarter

3-3-NYG 41 (2:17) 13-J.Lorenzen pass incomplete deep right to 17-P.Burress. (35 yards downfield)

MIAMI

Second Quarter

2-10-MIA 20 (15:00) 10-T.Green pass deep left intended for 86-M.Booker INTERCEPTED by 42-A.Henry at DAL 37. 42-A.Henry to DAL 37 for no gain (86-M.Booker). (43 yards downfield)

3-12-DAL 27 16) 10-T.Green pass incomplete deep right to 84-C.Chambers. (27 yards downfield)

Third Quarter

1-10-MIA 26 (2:04) 10-T.Green pass deep left to 84-C.Chambers to 50 for 24 yards (26-K.Hamlin; 42-A.Henry). (22 yards downfield)

Fourth Quarter

1-10-DAL 35 (3:49) (Shotgun) 10-T.Green pass incomplete deep left to 86-M.Booker (42-A.Henry). (20 yards downfield)

1-10-DAL 21 (3:37) (Shotgun) 10-T.Green pass deep right to 82-D.Hagan for 21 yards, TOUCHDOWN. (21 yards downfield)

1-10-MIA 26 (3:10) (Shotgun) 10-T.Green pass incomplete deep right to 82-D.Hagan. (34 yards downfield)

CHICAGO

Second Quarter

2-6-DAL 31 (15:00) 8-R.Grossman pass deep middle intended for 87-M.Muhammad INTERCEPTED by 42-A.Henry at DAL 11. 42-A.Henry to DAL 34 for 23 yards (81-R.Davis). (20 yards downfield)

3-8-CHI 25 (10:58) 8-R.Grossman pass incomplete deep left to 81-R.Davis (41-T.Newman). (22 yards downfield)

1-10-DAL 46 (2:05) 8-R.Grossman pass incomplete deep middle to 88-D.Clark. (20 yards downfield)

ST. LOUIS

First Quarter

2-15-DAL 49 (5:42) 10-M.Bulger pass incomplete deep right to 81-T.Holt. Pass incomplete sideline at the Dallas 28; Hamlin closest defender. (21 yards downfield)

1-10-SL 31 (3:13) 10-M.Bulger pass incomplete short middle to 81-T.Holt (42-A.Henry). Pass incomplete on deep post at the Dallas 22. (47 yards downfield)

Second Quarter

1-10-DAL 26 (15:00) 10-M.Bulger pass incomplete short right to 81-T.Holt. Pass incomplete at the Dallas 1 yard line; Hamlin closest defender. (25 yards downfield)

Third Quarter

3-10-SL 34 (11:18) (Shotgun) 10-M.Bulger pass incomplete to 82-D.Hall (35-J.Reeves). Pass incomplete at the Dallas 39 right sideline. (27 yards downfield)

Fourth Quarter

1-10-SL 17 (6:29) 12-G.Frerotte pass incomplete deep right to 83-D.Bennett. Pass incomplete at the Dallas 46; Reeves closest defender. (37 yards downfield)

BUFFALO

None

NEW ENGLAND

First Quarter

1-10-NE 26 (13:17) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete deep middle to 81-R.Moss. Deep post pattern; incomplete at the Dallas 22; Hamlin closest defender. (52 yards downfield)

3-7-NE 34 (3:39) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass deep middle to 84-B.Watson to DAL 38 for 28 yards (31-R.Williams). (23 yards downfield)

3-7-DAL 35 (2:20) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass deep middle to 83-W.Welker for 35 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Post pattern. (22 yards downfield)

Second Quarter

1-10-NE 37 (10:42) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to 81-R.Moss. Flea-flicker; incomplete at the Dallas 4; Newman closest defender. (59 yards downfield)

Third Quarter

2-1-NE 46 (8:55) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete deep right to 81-R.Moss. Pass incomplete at the Dallas 32; Reeves closest defender. (22 yards downfield)


Fourth Quarter

1-10-NE 31 (12:31) 12-T.Brady pass deep middle to 18-D.Stallworth for 69 yards, TOUCHDOWN. (28 yards downfield)


MINNESOTA

Second Quarter

1-10-MIN 1 (11:29) 7-T.Jackson pass incomplete to 82-T.Williamson. Pass incomplete fly pattern at the Minnesota 45; Hamilin closest defender. (44 yards downfield)

Fourth Quarter

1-10-DAL 45 (6:21) 7-T.Jackson pass incomplete deep middle to 18-S.Rice (35-J.Reeves). (44 yards downfield)

 

[zrinkill]

Neither of those were because he took a "bad angle" (and yes, I just pulled out the tapes and watched both plays). The play against Calico was a reverse. Roy came from the middle of the field and tackled Calico at the sideline after a 5-yard gain. And the play against Smith was a third-and-1 run behind the right tackle (the defense's left side). Roy was the safety on the defense's right side, which means he had to go to his left to make the tackle, and he came at Smith directly from the side, not from behind.

D**N!

 

[Hostile]

Oh, really? Below is a list of all 29 deep passes (20 yards or more downfield) attempted against us this season -- seven completions, 20 incompletions and two interceptions.

On how many of these plays did you "already know the pass will be completed"?

On how many of these plays was "Roy back there in coverage"?

And on how many of these plays was "Roy pointing fingers at the end of the play"?

I think you'll be shocked at the answers.




NEW YORK GIANTS

First Quarter

1-10-NYG 40 (13:42) 10-E.Manning pass deep middle to 17-P.Burress for 60 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Deep middle post pattern.(36 yards downfield)

2-3-DAL 35 (4:09) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep left to 81-A.Toomer. (35 yards downfield)

Second Quarter

1-10-NYG 25 (3:53) 10-E.Manning pass deep middle to 17-P.Burress to DAL 48 for 27 yards (42-A.Henry). (26 yards downfield)

1-10-DAL 26 14) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 12-S.Smith. Pass caught out of bounds right corner of the end zone. (26 yards downfield)

Third Quarter

3-8-DAL 30 (5:58) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 17-P.Burress (35-J.Reeves). Reeves broke up the pass 5 yards deep right corner of the end zone. Ware heavy pressure on the quarterback. (30 yards downfield)

1-10-NYG 19 (4:10) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 80-J.Shockey. Pass incomplete at the New York 39; Spencer closest defender. (20 yards downfield)

Fourth Quarter

3-3-NYG 41 (2:17) 13-J.Lorenzen pass incomplete deep right to 17-P.Burress. (35 yards downfield)

MIAMI

Second Quarter

2-10-MIA 20 (15:00) 10-T.Green pass deep left intended for 86-M.Booker INTERCEPTED by 42-A.Henry at DAL 37. 42-A.Henry to DAL 37 for no gain (86-M.Booker). (43 yards downfield)

3-12-DAL 27 16) 10-T.Green pass incomplete deep right to 84-C.Chambers. (27 yards downfield)

Third Quarter

1-10-MIA 26 (2:04) 10-T.Green pass deep left to 84-C.Chambers to 50 for 24 yards (26-K.Hamlin; 42-A.Henry). (22 yards downfield)

Fourth Quarter

1-10-DAL 35 (3:49) (Shotgun) 10-T.Green pass incomplete deep left to 86-M.Booker (42-A.Henry). (20 yards downfield)

1-10-DAL 21 (3:37) (Shotgun) 10-T.Green pass deep right to 82-D.Hagan for 21 yards, TOUCHDOWN. (21 yards downfield)

1-10-MIA 26 (3:10) (Shotgun) 10-T.Green pass incomplete deep right to 82-D.Hagan. (34 yards downfield)

CHICAGO

Second Quarter

2-6-DAL 31 (15:00) 8-R.Grossman pass deep middle intended for 87-M.Muhammad INTERCEPTED by 42-A.Henry at DAL 11. 42-A.Henry to DAL 34 for 23 yards (81-R.Davis). (20 yards downfield)

3-8-CHI 25 (10:58) 8-R.Grossman pass incomplete deep left to 81-R.Davis (41-T.Newman). (22 yards downfield)

1-10-DAL 46 (2:05) 8-R.Grossman pass incomplete deep middle to 88-D.Clark. (20 yards downfield)

ST. LOUIS

First Quarter

2-15-DAL 49 (5:42) 10-M.Bulger pass incomplete deep right to 81-T.Holt. Pass incomplete sideline at the Dallas 28; Hamlin closest defender. (21 yards downfield)

1-10-SL 31 (3:13) 10-M.Bulger pass incomplete short middle to 81-T.Holt (42-A.Henry). Pass incomplete on deep post at the Dallas 22. (47 yards downfield)

Second Quarter

1-10-DAL 26 (15:00) 10-M.Bulger pass incomplete short right to 81-T.Holt. Pass incomplete at the Dallas 1 yard line; Hamlin closest defender. (25 yards downfield)

Third Quarter

3-10-SL 34 (11:18) (Shotgun) 10-M.Bulger pass incomplete to 82-D.Hall (35-J.Reeves). Pass incomplete at the Dallas 39 right sideline. (27 yards downfield)

Fourth Quarter

1-10-SL 17 (6:29) 12-G.Frerotte pass incomplete deep right to 83-D.Bennett. Pass incomplete at the Dallas 46; Reeves closest defender. (37 yards downfield)

BUFFALO

None

NEW ENGLAND

First Quarter

1-10-NE 26 (13:17) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete deep middle to 81-R.Moss. Deep post pattern; incomplete at the Dallas 22; Hamlin closest defender. (52 yards downfield)

3-7-NE 34 (3:39) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass deep middle to 84-B.Watson to DAL 38 for 28 yards (31-R.Williams). (23 yards downfield)

3-7-DAL 35 (2:20) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass deep middle to 83-W.Welker for 35 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Post pattern. (22 yards downfield)

Second Quarter

1-10-NE 37 (10:42) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to 81-R.Moss. Flea-flicker; incomplete at the Dallas 4; Newman closest defender. (59 yards downfield)

Third Quarter

2-1-NE 46 (8:55) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete deep right to 81-R.Moss. Pass incomplete at the Dallas 32; Reeves closest defender. (22 yards downfield)


Fourth Quarter

1-10-NE 31 (12:31) 12-T.Brady pass deep middle to 18-D.Stallworth for 69 yards, TOUCHDOWN. (28 yards downfield)


MINNESOTA

Second Quarter

1-10-MIN 1 (11:29) 7-T.Jackson pass incomplete to 82-T.Williamson. Pass incomplete fly pattern at the Minnesota 45; Hamilin closest defender. (44 yards downfield)

Fourth Quarter

1-10-DAL 45 (6:21) 7-T.Jackson pass incomplete deep middle to 18-S.Rice (35-J.Reeves). (44 yards downfield)

Do you ever get tired of roast?

Wow.

 

[AdamJT13]

I already posted an article quoting Parcells word for word, do you discount that too?

You're forgetting that whenever any coach talks about one of his player's responsibilities or their performance, they're always lying.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Because I don't see things the way you do I am blind? I and others have provided concrete evidence disproving some of your statements and we are the ones that cannot see? Are you sure you can see your way out of this thread?[/quote]

What have you guys provided? One guy only attempted to provide some completion stats, and you only provided portion of a remark by a coach. You are no better than me in providing "evidence" IMO.....I've given examples of passes against Roy, this year and last year, but you Roy homers are quick to take up for him and say it wasn't his man. It's not about being his man, it's about making a play when you are in range. All you have to do is watch any Cowboy pregame show and plays will be shown where Roy looks lost in coverage. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see his flaws.....Can you see, if not come on down to the hospital, I would be more than happy to give you an exam.........



Quote:
Originally Posted by dcowboysfan76
Why do you think Wade is trying to use Roy as a Lb in some packages? To play him by his strengths right?

Because in those packages they bring in a FS in the SS spot because a FS covers deep passes better than SS. They leave Roy in there because not only is he force near the line, but he can also cover better than a LB. On those downs, they put their best pass coverage players in the game.

In other words Roy is a liability and the threat of a deep pass concerns the coach and he knows that Roy struggles with them.........Wow Mr. Concrete you are really good....You've proven my point .......THANKS