At 1/4 Season: Free Agent RB performance

[Stash]

For starters, it's far to early to declare anyone the 'winner' of any kind of free agent performance. Crowning anyone the champ of that just 1/4 of the way through the season makes no sense.

It makes more sense to use the information we have than to 'wait and see' until another season is gone. I'm sure if the numbers looked the opposite, the same people, would be saying ' told ya so' about not signing Johnson. But when things look bad in Dallas and it's clear they made a mistake, it's a different story.

Onto Arizona, while CJ's numbers look pretty decent now there is a reason - Ellington has been hurt and the rookie Johnson is just getting up to speed. Once Ellington returns to full time CJ will see his carries drop.

And is this supposed to some attempt at an indictment of Chris Johnson?

If the coaches hand the job back to Ellington, that's on them. The fact is that Johnson was looking for an opportunity, got it, and has made the best of it. While the guys the Cowboys chose to put their faith into haven't made the best of their opportunities and they're still trying to shuffle the deck, hoping something works.

 

[Stash]

Yeah. it's just 1/4 of a season.
This thread was for an update on how everyone was doing so far.

Information that some just can't bear to see.

 

[xwalker]

And I agree to an extent. You're not going to be able to tell much about a back with very few carries in a game. One carry can skew the whole equation. However, you can see patterns develop with backs receiving the amount of carries Randle is getting in a game or the amount Chris Johnson is getting in a game. Doesn't mean it won't take one or two breakway runs right now to boost Randle's numbers. (In fact, you could say his numbers already have been boosted by a couple of decent runs and would be abysmal without them.)

Now, the number of carries is still low for Randle, which is why I haven't been on board the he sucks, get rid of him bus. However, his efforts through five games are enough to tell me that there is reason to believe he's not the answer and Dallas would have been better off if it had considered other options when it had the chance to consider them.

But as to the post you were responding to, there are really only a few things we can look at to judge the value of a back (without in-depth analysis) and total yards is a very poor metric. I've said before that I prefer YPC because it at least tells you how the back is averaging out in his attempts, but small sample sizes do skew the average. It's better to get a full picture of a back from down to down to go through each of his carries and find his normal average (throwing out the aberrations). However, do that for any back and his numbers aren't going to be as good. Most end up in the 4 to 5 range, and they do it with a few longer runs mixed it.

I like to just watch the game footage to see if the RB is missing opportunities or if the blocking is the bigger problem.

I just have not seen huge problems with Randle. The blocking just has not been very good. He has actually had many runs where he got more yards than expected.

I really think the results would be very similar with Murray or Chris Johnson.

I would like to see C-Mike just for comparison; although now with the bye, Cassel, Collins and Dez in the game the opportunities to run should improve.

 

[DandyDon52]

Does it mean he wouldn't?

The fact is that he's doing well with his given opportunity while this team is still shaking it up, throwing things against the wall, and hoping one of 'em sticks.

Not a great plan.

Well it is a totally different team, where they are well coached and have a good qb, can pass good, and game plan good, so easier to do good in that situation than here in Dallas where it is in disarray.
Our RB are not great, but they are not as bad as they seem.
We run on every first down , other teams know this, and our blocking schemes are not too good this year.
Coaching is the main problem here in dallas, 3 games with weeden before they make a change says a lot.

I almost feel sorry for cassel lol now he has to see what it is like.
Maybe he can do something with the JG offense, but it will be hard.

 

[birdwells1]

Well it is a totally different team, where they are well coached and have a good qb, can pass good, and game plan good, so easier to do good in that situation than here in Dallas where it is in disarray.
Our RB are not great, but they are not as bad as they seem.
We run on every first down , other teams know this, and our blocking schemes are not too good this year.
Coaching is the main problem here in dallas, 3 games with weeden before they make a change says a lot.

I almost feel sorry for cassel lol now he has to see what it is like.
Maybe he can do something with the JG offense, but it will be hard.

I think our offense has too many "have to have's", meaning we have to have a dominant wr1 to draw double teams, we need Romo to move around in the pocket to create some magic, we need an all pro de to get sacks. It seems to me that Garretts systems are too player dependent for my taste and when those players are gone the whole offense goes with them, I can see if when Romo goes but when Dez goes that shouldn't change much.

One thing that's good about this situation is that the other players that have been hiding behind Romo and Dez's greatness (Williams, Weeden, this running game) have been exposed and now the fo can move forward with this knowledge.

 

[Nightman]

It makes more sense to use the information we have than to 'wait and see' until another season is gone. I'm sure if the numbers looked the opposite, the same people, would be saying ' told ya so' about not signing Johnson. But when things look bad in Dallas and it's clear they made a mistake, it's a different story.



And is this supposed to some attempt at an indictment of Chris Johnson?

If the coaches hand the job back to Ellington, that's on them. The fact is that Johnson was looking for an opportunity, got it, and has made the best of it. While the guys the Cowboys chose to put their faith into haven't made the best of their opportunities and they're still trying to shuffle the deck, hoping something works.

We all know we were losers the moment the FO decided we didn't need Murray and we could get by with Randle and whoever else on the cheap.

It was like the scene from Trading Places when the Dukes decided to ruin some lives just to see if they were powerful enough to do so.

Randle couldn't challenge Murray for carries last year but he was capable of replacing him? You don't have to wait to see the results to know if the decison was a poor one. They created a hole out of a strength.

 

[Stash]

We all know we were losers the moment the FO decided we didn't need Murray and we could get by with Randle and whoever else on the cheap.

It was like the scene from Trading Places when the Dukes decided to ruin some lives just to see if they were powerful enough to do so.

Randle couldn't challenge Murray for carries last year but he was capable of replacing him? You don't have to wait to see the results to know if the decison was a poor one. They created a hole out of a strength.

They sure guessed wrong with the backs they did decide to go with. And now, 1/3 of the way through the season, they're still trying to shuffle things around to come up with the right answer.

 

[gimmesix]

I like to just watch the game footage to see if the RB is missing opportunities or if the blocking is the bigger problem.

I just have not seen huge problems with Randle. The blocking just has not been very good. He has actually had many runs where he got more yards than expected.

I really think the results would be very similar with Murray or Chris Johnson.

I would like to see C-Mike just for comparison; although now with the bye, Cassel, Collins and Dez in the game the opportunities to run should improve.

One reason I'm willing to give Randle somewhat of a pass is because he has mainly been working without a QB and major receiving threat. That obviously makes it harder on everyone else.

In comparing him to what we saw from Murray, though, I believe he has failed to pick up yards Murray was getting last year. But I also believe Murray would not have made the TD run Randle had against Atlanta, so it might have evened out. (Runs like that, I believe, are why Dallas felt Randle could step in for Murray this year. My concern was also the other runs where he needs to gain 3 yards when it appears he should gain 1.)

I agree that one reason I want to see Michael is for comparison. There is so much that goes into a running game, including the back and the line being in sync. (Holes only open for so long, linemen learn how long they need to hold backside blocks, etc.) I want to see how much the line is to blame for the YPC decline. I think the line is getting unfairly blame because Murray made them look good on plays where our current backs are not. Of course, we may never know for sure.

 

[CyberB0b]

Randle has been decent. Not sure CJ would be better. Our offensive coordinator hasn't exactly been creative.

 

[xwalker]

One reason I'm willing to give Randle somewhat of a pass is because he has mainly been working without a QB and major receiving threat. That obviously makes it harder on everyone else.

In comparing him to what we saw from Murray, though, I believe he has failed to pick up yards Murray was getting last year. But I also believe Murray would not have made the TD run Randle had against Atlanta, so it might have evened out. (Runs like that, I believe, are why Dallas felt Randle could step in for Murray this year. My concern was also the other runs where he needs to gain 3 yards when it appears he should gain 1.)

I agree that one reason I want to see Michael is for comparison. There is so much that goes into a running game, including the back and the line being in sync. (Holes only open for so long, linemen learn how long they need to hold backside blocks, etc.) I want to see how much the line is to blame for the YPC decline. I think the line is getting unfairly blame because Murray made them look good on plays where our current backs are not. Of course, we may never know for sure.

I spent a lot of time studying the running game last season. I rarely thought Murray helped the OL.

Yes, he might have gotten 2 yards when Randle would get 1, but Randle does get the extra yard or two at times.

Also, like you said Murray might not have some of the big plays that Randle has had.

 

[Idgit]

These RB threads invite a lot of 'I told you so' about the RBs on the roster, and I'm not sure it's fair. The 'I was told anybody could run behind this line' line, for example. I'd say, if anything, the early season has been a vindication of the argument that the rushing game effectiveness doesn't matter much either way if the passing game effectiveness isn't there. For the most part, our backs have been ok. In the passing game, they've been better than ok, though a lot of that is on Dunbar, who's no longer with us. When the QB goes down, and the game changing receiver, it doesn't matter.

I'd also say, if anything, our blocking has under delivered to-date more than our running has. I know Broaddus is critical of Randle, but with a few exceptions, I don't really see what he's complaining about. I haven't reviewed the NE game yet, but for the most part he's gotten what's blocked. McFadden I don't like, but he hasn't been awful. We're just getting individual plays blown up, and because we don't have a QB, it kills the chains and makes us punt. Last year, we had less of that happening because we were generally blocking better across the board. And when it did, Romo was a magician and could convert the occasional 3rd and 9 or 3rd and 15. If you don't get that, you don't get rhythm. If you don't get rhythm, you're not playing with leads, and if you're not playing with leads, you're not running it in the 4th quarter when the yards get easier if your OL is good. And so, you get what we've gotten.

But it all stems from the lack of Tony Romo and the lack of Dez Bryant and not the lack of Demarco Murray or Chris Johnson.

 

[cowboyschmps3]

Nobody wanted CJ and look what he's done.

 

[birdwells1]

These RB threads invite a lot of 'I told you so' about the RBs on the roster, and I'm not sure it's fair. The 'I was told anybody could run behind this line' line, for example. I'd say, if anything, the early season has been a vindication of the argument that the rushing game effectiveness doesn't matter much either way if the passing game effectiveness isn't there. For the most part, our backs have been ok. In the passing game, they've been better than ok, though a lot of that is on Dunbar, who's no longer with us. When the QB goes down, and the game changing receiver, it doesn't matter.

I'd also say, if anything, our blocking has under delivered to-date more than our running has. I know Broaddus is critical of Randle, but with a few exceptions, I don't really see what he's complaining about. I haven't reviewed the NE game yet, but for the most part he's gotten what's blocked. McFadden I don't like, but he hasn't been awful. We're just getting individual plays blown up, and because we don't have a QB, it kills the chains and makes us punt. Last year, we had less of that happening because we were generally blocking better across the board. And when it did, Romo was a magician and could convert the occasional 3rd and 9 or 3rd and 15. If you don't get that, you don't get rhythm. If you don't get rhythm, you're not playing with leads, and if you're not playing with leads, you're not running it in the 4th quarter when the yards get easier if your OL is good. And so, you get what we've gotten.

But it all stems from the lack of Tony Romo and the lack of Dez Bryant and not the lack of Demarco Murray or Chris Johnson.

I think that your right but I guess I had a problem with them not even trying CJ as if we had proven backs or something. People just don't fear our passing game right now so our running game suffers.

 

[Idgit]

I think that your right but I guess I had a problem with them not even trying CJ as if we had proven backs or something. People just don't fear our passing game right now so our running game suffers.

The CJ thing, it's hard to say. Either he was too expensive, or they didn't love his character. There's no other good reason for not taking a look at him. I don't buy the fact that DMC was here as an excuse, either, because DMC's not a good enough player for it to matter.

 

[Risen Star]

Randle has been decent. Not sure CJ would be better. Our offensive coordinator hasn't exactly been creative.

You're not sure if Chris Johnson would be better than Joseph Randle?

 

[Nightman]

These RB threads invite a lot of 'I told you so' about the RBs on the roster, and I'm not sure it's fair. The 'I was told anybody could run behind this line' line, for example. I'd say, if anything, the early season has been a vindication of the argument that the rushing game effectiveness doesn't matter much either way if the passing game effectiveness isn't there. For the most part, our backs have been ok. In the passing game, they've been better than ok, though a lot of that is on Dunbar, who's no longer with us. When the QB goes down, and the game changing receiver, it doesn't matter.

I'd also say, if anything, our blocking has under delivered to-date more than our running has. I know Broaddus is critical of Randle, but with a few exceptions, I don't really see what he's complaining about. I haven't reviewed the NE game yet, but for the most part he's gotten what's blocked. McFadden I don't like, but he hasn't been awful. We're just getting individual plays blown up, and because we don't have a QB, it kills the chains and makes us punt. Last year, we had less of that happening because we were generally blocking better across the board. And when it did, Romo was a magician and could convert the occasional 3rd and 9 or 3rd and 15. If you don't get that, you don't get rhythm. If you don't get rhythm, you're not playing with leads, and if you're not playing with leads, you're not running it in the 4th quarter when the yards get easier if your OL is good. And so, you get what we've gotten.

But it all stems from the lack of Tony Romo and the lack of Dez Bryant and not the lack of Demarco Murray or Chris Johnson.

The problem is we built up the requirements for a RB.

We decided he had to be a HR hitter, that never fumbled, could get the all the hard yards but could also see all the angles and wouldn't leave any yards on the field. Then after deciding Murray didn't meet those standards, we ignored them and settled for inexpensive nobodies.

What we should have done is nothing. Just accept Murray and all his warts.

Murray, Randle, Dunbar and Rawls would have been a helluva RBBC.

 

[dallasdave]

It makes more sense to use the information we have than to 'wait and see' until another season is gone. I'm sure if the numbers looked the opposite, the same people, would be saying ' told ya so' about not signing Johnson. But when things look bad in Dallas and it's clear they made a mistake, it's a different story.



And is this supposed to some attempt at an indictment of Chris Johnson?

If the coaches hand the job back to Ellington, that's on them. The fact is that Johnson was looking for an opportunity, got it, and has made the best of it. While the guys the Cowboys chose to put their faith into haven't made the best of their opportunities and they're still trying to shuffle the deck, hoping something works.

Well said indeed sir !!

 

[ConstantReboot]

Chris Johnson a steal so far.

http://arizonasports.com/story/409084/cardinals-signing-of-chris-johnson-proving-to-be-a-big-steal/


"A comparison of running backs who switched teams this year:

Player (Team)___________ATT__Yards_Avg.TD
Chris Johnson (Arizona)____79__405___5.12
Frank Gore (Indy)_________76__325___4.33
DeAngelo Williams (Pitt)____49__231___4.73
Ryan Mathews (Philly)_____41__205___5.02
LeSean McCoy (Buffalo)___43__146___3.40
DeMarco Murray (Philly)___49__130___2.72
Darren McFadden (Dal)___37__129___3.51
Shane Vereen (NYG)_____25__101__4.00
C.J. Spiller (NO)_________9___13___.40

Sometimes you get what you pay for. And sometimes, not often, you get a lot more for your money. The Arizona Cardinals just purchased a car with a lot of miles on it on the cheap, but it runs great."

I knew Chris Johnson he was going to be productive. He would have been a good match here. Been crying all offseason for the Cowboys to kick the tires at least. But the Koolaid that anyone can run behind this oline did them in and we got stuck with Randle and MacFadden. And people called me crazy for suggesting it.....

 

[ConstantReboot]

The problem is we built up the requirements for a RB.

We decided he had to be a HR hitter, that never fumbled, could get the all the hard yards but could also see all the angles and wouldn't leave any yards on the field. Then after deciding Murray didn't meet those standards, we ignored them and settled for inexpensive nobodies.

What we should have done is nothing. Just accept Murray and all his warts.

Murray, Randle, Dunbar and Rawls would have been a helluva RBBC.

Murray left to the Eagles because they paid him just 2 million more. I'm not saying pay him what the Eagles paid him. But maybe the Cowboys could have countered with 1 million more per. year with an incentive laiden contract that would increase base on performance.

What I'm saying is I think we left Murray go too easily. Then we were content with the scrubs to fill in the gaps. Now come to think about it, if it would have saved this season from tanking, I would have signed Murray to what the Eagles gave him. This idea that he will break the bank is a myth.

 

[Nightman]

Murray left to the Eagles because they paid him just 2 million more. I'm not saying pay him what the Eagles paid him. But maybe the Cowboys could have countered with 1 million more per. year with an incentive laiden contract that would increase base on performance.

What I'm saying is I think we left Murray go too easily. Then we were content with the scrubs to fill in the gaps. Now come to think about it, if it would have saved this season from tanking, I would have signed Murray to what the Eagles gave him. This idea that he will break the bank is a myth.

That is what I am saying.
.
We came up with all these reasons NOT to pay Murray and then just threw them away and went with Randle and DMC.

They rode him for over 450 touches last year and then tossed him aside for a turd and a has been.