At what pick do you start to consider trading up

[Stash]

I think 3 of them do, but that is just my opinion.

Interested in hearing more, who are the players and why do you feel the way you do?

 

[big dog cowboy]

I mentioned my disappointment when the draft happened and not much has occurred to change my opinion.

That doesn't change the fact that now, eleven months later, it's still to early to say we drafted 12 mediocre players.

 

[theogt]

Buehler was about the best of the bunch.

And I wouldn't consider the Roy Williams trade a "win".

The organization has drafted more "good" than "bad" recently, but last year's left me disappointed.

I didn't say you had to consider it a "win." You said you wanted "impact" players and Williams had about as big an impact as you can expect from a draft pick. If Williams doesn't work out, then you can only point to the 2009 draft as showing the hazard of trading for an "impact player" rather than trading down.

The point is, no one knows if the "impact players" will even pan out.

 

[Stash]

That doesn't change the fact that now, eleven months later, it's still to early to say we drafted 12 mediocre players.

Maybe so.

Just stating my opinion that I wasn't thrilled with it then, and I'm not now either.

I hope I'm eventually proven wrong because it's what's best for the team.

 

[theogt]

I agree to a certain extent, but it depends on what you are trading up for exactly. I wouldnt trade up 20 or so spots in the first round to get a safety prospect, or a guard. But if my team needed a dominant LT or pass rusher, elite CB or franchise QB and I could move into position to get said player, I'd think long and hard about it. Especially if its a player like a Troy Aikman, John Elway or Anthony Munoz. Guys you are about 99.9% sure are franchise players with not only the elite talent, but the character and work ethic to go with it.

People were as certain about Ryan Leaf as they were about Troy Aikman. The problem is you can't be 99.9% certain about any of these guys. That's where the arrogance comes in. If you're that certain, it's because you're arrogant, not because you're right.

 

[Stash]

I didn't say you had to consider it a "win." You said you wanted "impact" players and Williams had about as big an impact as you can expect from a draft pick. If Williams doesn't work out, then you can't only point to the 2009 draft as showing the hazard of trading for an "impact player" rather than trading down.

The point is, no one knows if the "impact players" will even pan out.

Definitely no "sure things" when it comes to the draft.

 

[Hostile]

Interested in hearing more, who are the players and why do you feel the way you do?

First of all I view these things a lot differently than some people. I think if you get quality backup depth it is a positive for the team. To me Victor Butler was valuable last year and by all accounts Brandon Williams has an even higher ceiling.

I agree with theogt that we got value out of the Williams trade in the form of 7 TDs and 13 starts. I doubt very many rookie WRs could have replicated that in this Offense. Going forward there needs to be improvement. No doubt.

David Buehler broke the team record for touchbacks as a Rookie and broke the NFL record for a Rookie. Going forward I think you can expect him to improve on those skills and if he does become our FG Kicker then that certainly qualifies.

John Phillips definitely came on by year's end and showed he is not just a blocking TE but an Offensive option. He might even make it plausible to trade Bennett at some point.

I think it is way too soon to say Michael Hamlin, Robert Brewster, and Jason Williams are not future starters in Dallas. Basically that means the only picks you really can bag on are Mickens and Smith. Hodge and Johnson are still a who knows. I suspect Johnson will never be a factor here, but I can't say that about Hodge yet.

It is way too soon to judge Stephen McGee, though I think he is a career backup and there is nothing wrong with that.

On top of this we seem to have found a future WR in Kevin Ogletree. Others may not look at UDFAs as part of a Draft class, but I do. It is still the same scouting work being done.

I think it is way too soon to label that Draft a bust or even underwhelming.

 

[THUMPER]

I was happy with the players we selected last year but not with trading down so many times. We didn't need that many picks and will end up letting some of them go this year. I prefer to stay put unless a trade will either bring us an impact player or higher picks the following year. Trading a high pick for multiple lower picks is not smart IMO.

Starting quality players are typically taken in the 1st round, solid backups in the 2nd & 3rd round. Anyone selected after that is a project player for the most part. You build a team in the first 3 rounds and hope to hit on hidden gems in the later rounds. Jerry has tried for years to build through the later rounds and it shows in our lack of stars and quality depth. Romo and Austin were lucky hits as UFDAs, you cannot expect to do that every year. Our best players were taken in the first few rounds.

Just stay where we are and select the best players available.

 

[casmith07]

I was happy with the players we selected last year but not with trading down so many times. We didn't need that many picks and will end up letting some of them go this year. I prefer to stay put unless a trade will either bring us an impact player or higher picks the following year. Trading a high pick for multiple lower picks is not smart IMO.

Starting quality players are typically taken in the 1st round, solid backups in the 2nd & 3rd round. Anyone selected after that is a project player for the most part. You build a team in the first 3 rounds and hope to hit on hidden gems in the later rounds. Jerry has tried for years to build through the later rounds and it shows in our lack of stars and quality depth. Romo and Austin were lucky hits as UFDAs, you cannot expect to do that every year. Our best players were taken in the first few rounds.

Just stay where we are and select the best players available.

The Baltimore Ravens had it as their policy to draft best player available for years and it hasn't gotten them anywhere but up and down every other year.

 

[dbair1967]

People were as certain about Ryan Leaf as they were about Troy Aikman. The problem is you can't be 99.9% certain about any of these guys. That's where the arrogance comes in. If you're that certain, it's because you're arrogant, not because you're right.

Ryan Leaf did not carry the same draft grade as Aikman or Elway did. Leaf did not have the character or the work ethic of Aikman, Elway, Manning etc etc. That, along with his wrist injury are why he turned into a monumental bust.

Now in that particular year, there probably were alot of people who thought he'd be an outstanding QB at some point. But guys like Aikman and Elway were once or twice a decade type prospects.

 

[Hoofbite]

Roy Williams and Buehler (not joking) were both immediate impact players acquired with last year's draft picks. On top of that we got a slew of other picks that may end up being pretty good.

:laugh1:

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Why do people get into philisophical debates when it comes to trading up or down? Arrogance?

Lets look at this draft. Mike Iupati and Earl Thomas are probably our top two targets, Maybe throw Pouncey in there as well. They can be snatched up a few slots before we pick. Is it worth trading up for them? Or would you rather stay put and maybe choose between guys like Stafford Mays, Terrence Cody, Bruce Cambell, Charles Brown etc.

Again, this draft appears to have a drop off after the top 25 or so. It really might be worth it to trade up for a guy we really like.

 

[theogt]

Ryan Leaf did not carry the same draft grade as Aikman or Elway did. Leaf did not have the character or the work ethic of Aikman, Elway, Manning etc etc. That, along with his wrist injury are why he turned into a monumental bust.

Now in that particular year, there probably were alot of people who thought he'd be an outstanding QB at some point. But guys like Aikman and Elway were once or twice a decade type prospects.

You do realize that half the draft experts thought Leaf should have been drafted ahead of Manning at the time, right? It's easy to point to something like character or work ethic and say that Leaf was obviously not the same grade as Manning or Aikman after the fact.

 

[dbair1967]

You do realize that half the draft experts thought Leaf should have been drafted ahead of Manning at the time, right? It's easy to point to something like character or work ethic and say that Leaf was obviously not the same grade as Manning or Aikman after the fact.

Manning may have been a lesser quality example, because even he didnt carry a grade as high as Elway or Aikman did.

Also, nobody knows for sure what % of people had Leaf rated ahead of Manning that year. There were rumors, but the Colts obviously didnt because they took Manning first, and cited some of the reasons that I did.

 

[RS12]

Manning may have been a lesser quality example, because even he didnt carry a grade as high as Elway or Aikman did.

Also, nobody knows for sure what % of people had Leaf rated ahead of Manning that year. There were rumors, but the Colts obviously didnt because they took Manning first, and cited some of the reasons that I did.

Guess Bobby Bethard didnt believe the coaches and players at Wazzou when they told him what jerk Leaf was.:laugh1:

 

[THUMPER]

Manning may have been a lesser quality example, because even he didnt carry a grade as high as Elway or Aikman did.

Also, nobody knows for sure what % of people had Leaf rated ahead of Manning that year. There were rumors, but the Colts obviously didnt because they took Manning first, and cited some of the reasons that I did.

I agree. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, KNEW that Elway and Aikman would be the #1 choice in their respective drafts. There were no other players considered ahead of them by anyone. With Manning and Leaf, those who knew football knew that Manning was the better player by far but there was enough debate on it that it wasn't quite the same as with Elway & Aikman.

 

[theogt]

I agree. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, KNEW that Elway and Aikman would be the #1 choice in their respective drafts. There were no other players considered ahead of them by anyone. With Manning and Leaf, those who knew football knew that Manning was the better player by far but there was enough debate on it that it wasn't quite the same as with Elway & Aikman.

And yet we went and spent a #1 on a QB shortly after drafting that sure thing Aikman.

 

[dbair1967]

And yet we went and spent a #1 on a QB shortly after drafting that sure thing Aikman.

Hos mentioned the same thing, but Jimmy explained his rationale behind doing it and it made sense. It was also in the days before the salary cap, where it wouldnt have the effect on a teams cap structure, nor would there be a problem with trades. If there had been a cap system in place, I'm about 100% sure they'd never have used that supp pick on Walsh.

 

[Fletch]

if a guy the cowboys like is still on the board? I would think at around pick 20 the boy's should start to consider trading up if say Earl Thomas or Iupati are still on the board.

Not sure how much it would cost and don't really care. If there's a player that they think can be an impact player sitting around 20 I say we go get him.

They better do something. Just hope they don't stand pat like they are in free agency and hope we instantly got better since the Minnesota game. If we are not going to do anything in free agency to upgrade, we'd better get aggressive and willing to move up in the draft.

I'd hate to see us move down and out of the first round.

 

[TwoDeep3]

I am unfamiliar with that variety.

I want to trade the 22 pick in the first round and a spare player who will not make this team for a RB in the top five picks of the draft theory.

But the temperament on all boards is never ever trade up because you never get what you pay for.

Of course Emmitt stands as a testament to this theory being a smidge incorrect.